stevesas11

Took my 2001 A4 in to get my timing belt done. I have 98k miles on it and was starting to not run very well. had a little bit of rumbling when the car was in idle but other than that the car was running fine. Knew i needed to get the belt done so i figured i would get it in ASAP to prevent any damage. So i take it to the shop and they say my timing was off a little bit. So i tell them to go ahead and do the work and a few days later i get an email telling me that they replaced the belt and started it up without the other belts and radiator on there and it was rattling pretty bad. (kind of weird that they would start it up without that on there). but they say they were going to put everything back together and see how it went. get an email the next day saying that its still rattling pretty bad and that i have internal damage to the valves and my only option is to replace the engine now and the car is currently not driveable. Is this for real? i have talked to a few mechanics and they say that damage is not typically caused unless the timing belt breaks and then you are screwed. did they mess something up and they are just covering it up now? has anyone ever heard of anything like this happen before? i need some help here because now i have no car, and owe this mechanic almost $1000 for a job that took my driveable car into a pile of parts that i am stuck with.

Devinv

Sounds like they ****ed up, can't really know how bad without a leak down test

stevesas11

a leak down test? sorry i will be the first to tell you that i am not the most knowledgeable about these cars...

Devinv

It's pretty simple of you have the kit, what I would do in your situation is either pull the spark plugs and take a peek into the cylinders or have another shop look at it. If your car didn't sound like death before you brought it to the shop and it does after a timing job I would say your mechanic is lying to you.

Legal action is generally the only way to get your money back from a shop when they're not being truthful. Sorry about your luck chief

Edit: even if it is valve damage, you'll probably only need a set of pistons and two new heads, only with extremely bad luck you'll need a new block.

John535is

I have to say it sounds like they stuffed up the timing when they installed the new belt, then started it up and caused the damage.
The extent of the damage is harder to quantify, hence Devinv's advice for a leakdown test. What he is saying is if the mechanics got it horribly wrong, the timing between the valves opening and closing and the pistons going up and down have collided with each other, the valves will generally get bent or damaged, maybe punch a hole in the piston top and the cylinder won't seal properly so you will loose compression. Even if the mechanic has redone the belt to correct his work, if the valves have been bent or piston damaged the leakdown will show leakage past the damaged.

It will be more proof the mechanic got it wrong, so they are probably not going to be willing to do this test unless they think you are willing to pay them for the repair.

What constitutes a new (used!) engine replacement versus fixing yours is economics. the mechanic might be able to source a replacement engine (used!) and swap it cheaper than what it costs for the individual parts and labour to repair yours. The down side is you may be getting another engine that may need the same timing job or another repair in the near future. Most second hand engines from a recycler will come with a limited warranty - limited in time and limited to the part but not the labour costs. I would always opt to repair my motor rather than a swap unless you have reason to think the engine was stuffed anyway.


You can
- demand they fix it at their cost, take a friend as a witness (either one with big biceps or someone who will stand up as a good citizen in front of a judge)
- if you have insurance, get your insurer to argue it out, the mechanic will have an insurer, get those 2 to talk it out
- get the car moved/ towed to another mechanic (who hopefully is not the first guys cousin) and ask for a damage assessment (including the leak down test) , then go for legal assistance using the assessment as proof of liability
-either way, don't pay for the repairs for a car you cannot drive and don't pay him to repair his own mistake.

There are lots of very hard working mechanics out their, but every now and then one stuffs up the reputation for all of them.

Prospeeder

Thats a load of crap. The valves wont be rattling from damage, if the piston touches them, thats it, 0 compression engine doesnt run. The rattle is something else going on. Not being there or hearing it there isnt much to say, possibly they left something in the timing belt area loose and its making noise. Is this an Auto or Manual? And why on earth would they pull the whole radiator and nose off. Sound like a bunch of rookies working on their first Audi, find a different shop and get a lawyer.

Highmile

That does not strike me as weird. But after installing a new timing belt, always rotate the crank a few times by hand, varify timing, and make sure engine turns freely. If everything checks out, start it up.

that is weird. Why would they continue to put the car back together with it rattling? At this point they knew it was stove up, they should have taken it back apart, rechecked timing, and found the mistake.


If you have bent valves, there are two possible solutions -
1: taking the head off and replacing the bent valves
2: swap in a new motor.
In your case, the valve job is more practical most likely.

If the timing was improperly set, it could have damaged valves. Improper tension causing the belt to jump is another possibility. It sounds like they messed up the job big time.

The cam chain tensioner is another failure point on this motor that can cause rattling and valve/lifter damage. They probably didn't get involved with it though on a timing belt job.

cnctech

After reading these responses, it pretty much sums it up. I have changed at least 4 timing belts in various vehicles, one being my 2001 A4 B5. I can tell you that when the belt jumps one tooth, the cam is of 22 degrees. This does not damage the piston/valve. Being off "a little", as they stated, sounds like carp to me. What's "a little"? I deal in numeric values, not opinionated estimates, when troubleshooting. As one of the responses above said, "sounds like their first Audi repair, most likely first timing belt repair. There's always a first time for everything, unfortunately you were the "learning specimen" for them. I think it will be difficult to verify that they caused the issue in court. I would talk with them after collecting all the information about belt replacement, symptoms, procedures, and let them know you are no longer "blind" in this area, and would like the car returned to you just like it was before you brought it into them to "fix" it. Good luck.
The exact same thing happened to my brother last week with his Chevy, Hmmm, while 750 miles from home. They screwed him for $4,250. Because they could.

CarPartsDiscount.com

there are two types of engines in regards to timing. there are "interference" and "non interference" engines. Interference engines require the timing to be set perfect in order to keep the piston and valves from trying to occupy the same space at the same time. i am not positive if your engine is an interference engine but most are these days. if this job was done incorrectly then it would do exactly what you are explaining. sounds like they might have messed up and don't want to accept responsibility for it.

RSutter67@yahoo.com

as cpd said all audi 2.8's are interference engines.sounds like they didnt hand crank it to make sure timing was on par.Then cranked it over an wham!!! bye bye valves.That being said they knew the f@#$%up before they put your 2.8 back together.I usually pull my front end off as i like to clean an make everything spotless on install.I start mine before putting it back together but not before hand cranking.as cnc said sounds like you jumped a tooth an they probably moved it one more tooth going over the 22 degrees to bending valves.it couldve jacked your cam chain tensioner if the went to far on being off time.hence the rattleing