spaniel1287

So I went out to start the car and quickly ran to lay down by the pump to feel and listen to it. I couldn't feel a thing when holding the motor nor could I hear anything coming from it. I then checked to make sure the 40A fuse was present, however I do not know how to check if the fuse is bad or if the relay is bad. Anyways, I removed the lower pipe on the SAI pump and immediately water came running out. Not a ton, but maybe about a cup worth. Does this mean the pump has failed and I need to replace it, or is there another underlying issue? Also, where did that water come from?

Lastly, the airbox takes up so much room in that compartment. If I wanted to just get an aftermarket intake, where would the hose go from the SAI pump up to the intake? There is obviously a hose running from the SAI pump up to the intake box. If I remove the intake box and replace with a K&N filter off the MAS, where would that hose from the SAI pump go to? Just curious for now. Thanks guys.

SmoothJimmo

Uhhh..NO, it's not normal. The AIR intake tube is downstream of the air filter (downstream but uphill as the air flows from bottom to top through the airbox) and should be clean. Maybe it was disconnected at some point? Filled with debris? As in sticks and leaves and such? If the air tube had somehow come off the AIR pump and if you don't have the plastic floor pan below the engine, I can imagine stuff might find its way in there during the Fall. This could certainly help explain a failed pump. Got any pics of said debris in the lines? How did the air filter and upper air box look?

SmoothJimmo

You should check your AIR outlet (pump to engine pipe for damage (leaks)

Google the issue and you'll find lotsa stuff like this:

As far as water in the pump, it could be from the road if a compromised tube or from condensation from a stuck (open) combi valve as per this:

VWVortex.com - Secondary air pump filling up with water

spaniel1287

The air filter was horrendous. Actually the first time I have ever looked at it. I was going to get a new filter, but I am wondering about the air filter box because that should be air tight and no liquid should be getting in. Well , the entire half of the air filter (the half closest to the engine block) was brown/black color and looked like dang oil or some crap had gotten in. Which surprises me because all 4 clips on the air box were pretty tight and it was sealed up pretty good. The debris in the hose going from the air box down to the SAI pump is filled with just crud on the walls of the tube. That is why I was asking about an aftermarket intake.

Do aftermarket intakes such as this:
96-00 Audi A4 / A6 2.8L V6 Performance Short RAM Air Induction Intake - Blue Filter

-Do intakes like these not account for that hose going from OEM intake box down to SAI pump? Or do you just somehow make a short hose with a filtered air breather on it to go in its place? I will go take a few pics of the intake box now and the hose so you can see.

But...what is my next move now. With water coming out of that hose, it is probably a good chance that the pump is failed and garbage now. Would simply replacing the pump and the hose up to the air box fix my CEL P1411 problem you think then?

spaniel1287

Yes I would hate to put in a new SAI pump and have that one get water in it and seize up and fail as well because of a different issue. A lot of people have complained about the combi valve going bad as the car ages. I have looked and seen where this is on my 2000 A4 2.8L. How in the F*** are you suppose to get at that? I am nervous that I would mess something up and wouldn't be able to get at it and then I'd have to tow it to a shop haha. I have searched for videos and what not on how to remove the combi valve, but I don't really find much of anything for my model car. Any advice on what to do? It is prob safe to say the SAI pump is garbage. But, how in the heck do you get to that dang combi valve (thanks audi for putting those in the best position possible)? I removed my intake box and there is still no room to barely get in and get at it? Thanks for the advice.

SmoothJimmo

I doubt the airbox is the cause of the water in the SAI pump. If it somehow were, you would expect your air filter to be a sloppy wet mess but again the path of water through the air intake sounds remote. It reads more like the air filter hasn't been changed in years and is fouled something fierce. I'm a fan of stone stock, so won't encourage a new air filter fittup. If you were to track the car (and few do with the 2.8) it might help some with HP but as a daily driver is kind of a waste of dough and time IMHO. A new air filter element should be in your immediate future however.

From that Passatworld link I sent a couple messages back, the op had similar symptoms of water in the SAI pump. His pump was toast upon inspection. If the water is due to condensate forming from a stuck open combi valve it will be full of corrosive stuff that electric pumps don't like. It reads like it's time to perform an electrical test on the AIR pump and then a Flow/Leak test on the system.

You can test the function of the AIR pump by running some test leads from the battery (with a fused link in the middle mind you) to the leads on the pump. Not sure of the pinout but there are probably two or three pins on the pump. This might best be done with the pump out of the car but your choice. You electrify the pump and see if it turns. Given your described symptoms, I predict not. FWIW, I see Uno brand pumps online for around $150. OEM are much more. But dont just go replacing the pump without determining if there are not other issues. This is where a flow/leak test as described in the Audi manual will be invaluable. This has to be done by a shop of someone with a VAG-COM.

Flow test
During the flow test, the oxygen sensor
control is switched off (engine runs rich at that
time). At the same time the secondary air
injection pump is switched on, injecting fresh
air into the exhaust manifold which increases
the oxygen content in the exhaust gas. The
oxygen sensor now measures a lean mixture.
To pass the diagnostic test, the oxygen
sensor must measure a lean mixture for a
certain time. Passing the test means that the
secondary air injection system delivers
enough air and the secondary air injection
system is OK.

Leak test

Flow test must check out OK

Engine at operating temperature
The secondary air injection pump is switched
on during idle. Since the combination valves
are not triggered by the secondary air
injection solenoid valve, they remain closed.
When the secondary air injection pump is
switched on, the oxygen sensor system is
monitored by the ECM. If the system does not
leak, fresh air cannot enter the exhaust
manifold. If the system is leaking, the oxygen
sensor signal will respond to the leaner
mixture (caused by the secondary air getting
into the exhaust manifold) and cause a
noticeable enrichment. This enrichment is
recognized by the ECM.

spaniel1287

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I agree I don't think anything getting in the airbox would have caused this. There is a great chance that the combi valve though has failed. Either way the SAI pump is dead and not working. I don't know if I would be able to do any of this combi valve stuff at home. I have no idea what a shop would charge me to do the combi valve though, even if i brought them a new combi valve and SAI pump to put in and only wanted to pay them labor. could still be pricey.

Doesn't anyone live around atlanta that has done this before wanna make a few extra bucks!!? haha