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Help with B&O noise canceling - added a new sub and I get noise!

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Old 01-21-2014, 09:54 AM   #1
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Default Help with B&O noise canceling - added a new sub and I get noise!

I just added a new sub and when everything is quiet I get a loud sound coming from the speakers. Is there any way of getting rid of that? My stereo shop tapped the sub speaker wires to get the sub signal.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:36 AM   #2
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I just added a new sub and when everything is quiet I get a loud sound coming from the speakers. Is there any way of getting rid of that? My stereo shop tapped the sub speaker wires to get the sub signal.
I can't imagine that the Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) of the S6 is going to work well with any substantive stereo changes - B&O or Bose.

E.g. http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2836432

I guess if you want to use the "turn the stereo louder" technique of cancelling out the V4 sound, maybe try disabling ANC and see if it helps?
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:52 AM   #3
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Can ANC be disabled? If so how?

It's worth a try.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:34 AM   #4
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Its been done with the Bose system with no problems. Do you know the parts they added?

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthre...woofer+upgrade
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:55 AM   #5
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Its been done with the Bose system with no problems. Do you know the parts they added?

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthre...woofer+upgrade
Thanks Gator. I had seen that post prior to my install.

I have the annoying buzz especially at low volume with the amp turned up. Luckily I installed a PAC LC-1 level controller under the steering wheel so I can completely turn it off.

On a different thread by HyperS4 he wrote:
"Based on input signals, the ANC control module calculates phase, frequency, and amplitude needed for each of the four door woofers and subwoofer. The five calculated ANC woofer signals are combined in the amplifier with the woofer signals of the sound system and output to the speakers. Noises are picked up by the four microphones and sent to the ANC control unit over discrete lines."

What if I tap another signal? Are there any other low frequency signals aside from the doors and sub?
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:04 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by S6Express View Post
Thanks Gator. I had seen that post prior to my install.

I have the annoying buzz especially at low volume with the amp turned up. Luckily I installed a PAC LC-1 level controller under the steering wheel so I can completely turn it off.

On a different thread by HyperS4 he wrote:
"Based on input signals, the ANC control module calculates phase, frequency, and amplitude needed for each of the four door woofers and subwoofer. The five calculated ANC woofer signals are combined in the amplifier with the woofer signals of the sound system and output to the speakers. Noises are picked up by the four microphones and sent to the ANC control unit over discrete lines."

What if I tap another signal? Are there any other low frequency signals aside from the doors and sub?
Does only the B&O have the ANC? My understanding both Bose and B&O had it. So since there have been Bose upgrades with no problems, the issue probably lines where exactly your shop tapped your line, or the amp they used.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:56 PM   #7
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Can ANC be disabled? If so how?

It's worth a try.
I don't have a service manual but I've seen mention of the ANC module being at address 47, so you should be able to talk to it via VCDS... I'd screen capture everything in sight before messing with it, but often times putting in a nonsense coding like 00000 will cause a fault code to be thrown and likely shut it down. Ideally ask your local friendly tech to look it up for you and see - if VCDS doesn't already have that info.

As others have pointed out, I may be off in the weeds since S6 Bose folks have done this - *BUT* I believe ANC is a lot more complex when B&O is selected. Maybe you can figure out how to code your ANC for Bose and see if that helps? (Get someone with a Bose S6 to read their coding and dump their measuring blocks and we can probably find out.)

Once again, my kingdom for a service manual
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:01 PM   #8
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I seem to recall seeing a fuse for ANC the last time I was poking around in there.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:31 PM   #9
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I seem to recall seeing a fuse for ANC the last time I was poking around in there.
That would be an easy test if there is!
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:48 PM   #10
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I seem to recall seeing a fuse for ANC the last time I was poking around in there.
That would be awesome. I'll see if that works.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:50 PM   #11
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What are you using for volume control?
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:03 PM   #12
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If you are using the MMI volume control, that could be your issue.

When using an aftermarket processor, it is important to set the processor with the highest clean volume available from the OEM head unit, and then never adjust it. The processor should have it's own volume control.

If you turn the MMI volume down, and the amplifier up, then you will be amplifying a noisy signal. Try turning the MMI volume way up, and the amplifier down and see what happens.

You might also need to recalibrate the LOC?
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:06 PM   #13
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I will see if I can post our oscilloscope tests of the Bose amplifier outputs when we test them.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:34 AM   #14
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The installer tapped two speakers to get as good a signal as he could - the B&O sub and the front right mid bass in the door.

So the tapped signal goes to an AXXESS LOC. From there the RCAs go to a PAC LC-1 level controller installed under the steering wheel. From there the RCAs go to the amp. So the volume of the sub is controlled both by the LC-1 and the MMI volume because it's getting the signal from the tapped speaker wires. As the volume increases so does the sub volume, but I have 0-100% control of it with the LC-1.

See photos:
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File Type: jpg photo 1.JPG (127.4 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg photo 2.JPG (127.4 KB, 54 views)
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobC View Post
I seem to recall seeing a fuse for ANC the last time I was poking around in there.
I don't see a fuse labeled ANC in the manual, but there are two possibilities:

Fuse Panel B Red: #11 sound amplifier
Fuse Panel C Red: #4 Engine acoustics

I think I'll start with engine acoustics and see if that makes a difference.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Solomon View Post
That would be an easy test if there is!
Actually I'm starting to think we/I misinterpreted what's been published in the self-study guide:
Quote:
ANC is an extension of the sound system. The ANC
control module is integrated into Digital Sound
System Control Module J525. The woofers integrated
in the vehicle serve as actuators. Four microphones
are installed in the vehicle headliner in precise
locations.
I'd been thinking J525 was *JUST* the ANC module - I'm now starting to believe J525 is the whole sound system amplifier, so pulling its fuse is gonna be bad...

I'm still not sure if the diagnostic access is only to ANC or to the whole amp system (but I tend to suspect the latter).

I'll be interested to see how this all turns out and what you discover about ANC...
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Solomon View Post
I'd been thinking J525 was *JUST* the ANC module - I'm now starting to believe J525 is the whole sound system amplifier, so pulling its fuse is gonna be bad...
They call everything in these cars "control modules." The J525 is the amplifier, but it also has some computer processing in it. The microphones from the voice control/bluetooth phone & the ANC all connect to the amp, I mean "control module."

I think the only way to defeat the ANC would be to disconnect the 4 mics in the headliner. They can be disconnected either at the mic locations, or at the amplifier.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:41 PM   #18
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Not to steer this off topic, but does the Bose control module (aka amp) behave the same as the B&O control module(s) (aka amps - there are 2 amps for B&O if I recall)?

So you'd effectively run into the same problem with a B&O setup?

I ask because I'm interested in swapping the Bose amp for the B&O amp if at all possible and perhaps add a sub in the meantime as outlined in the Bose Sub threads on this site.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:20 PM   #19
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I ask because I'm interested in swapping the Bose amp for the B&O amp if at all possible and perhaps add a sub in the meantime as outlined in the Bose Sub threads on this site.

I don't think you are going to have much success with swapping the Bose amp for B&O. Those systems are designed completely independently, and I would bet the cost of buying the B&O amps for a retrofit would be astronomical.

You might want to wait for the Audison Prima line to get released in April. I just had a look at the equipment yesterday, and talked to an Audison rep about it. He said that it would work as a drop-in replacement for most OEM amplifiers.
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