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Old 02-24-2014, 04:09 AM   #1
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Default HELP PLEASE

HELP NEEDED please.

Does anyone know of a dealership in the Washington DC area that knows about, and knows how to fix the two issues below?

1, Loss of torque in Dynamic Steering post application of steering update.

2, Intermittent freezing-up of MMI display (while backing)


I have written to Scott Keogh several times about the issues and have been assigned two different Executive Service (ES) folks. I have heard nothing back from Mr. Keoghs office.


Through the ES folks, I have brought my A6 to several Audi Dealerships in the area and have had the Audi Field Service Technical Manager twice address my car.


Regarding the Loss of Steering Torque, the Audi Field Service Technical Manager reported to Audi this is not an issue with Audi steering and the steering is “within Audi Parameters”.


As for the MMI Freezing-up, he reported to Audi the MMI did not freeze when he placed the auto in reverse, and there is not a recorded error code during the diagnostics, thus it is not an issue and no fix required.


As of the other day, I received the following:

“We regret that our efforts to assist you have not met your expectations. You are a valued member of the Audi family, Mr. Boland. Upon your previous visit to Audi Silver Spring, the dealership and our technical field manager determined that your vehicle is operating as designed.


If you are experiencing a new concern with your vehicle, we will require a diagnosis from an authorized Audi dealership. We rely on all authorized Audi dealerships for sales and service of Audi vehicles. Audi of America does not recommend one particular Audi dealership. The service department will advise of any repairs that may be needed on the vehicle.

Please let me know what dealership you would prefer to work with, and I will gladly contact them on your behalf. “


Then when I responded both issues continue and even give time/date and place of MMI freezing-up, I received:


“Dear Mr. Boland,

I regret to hear that you are experiencing concerns with the vehicle.

As mentioned in my previous e-mail, if you are experiencing a new concern with your vehicle, we will require a diagnosis from an authorized Audi dealership.

The service department will advise if there is a repair condition on the vehicle, and what repairs may be needed. I will contact the service department at Audi Tysons Corner on your behalf and request that they reach out to you to schedule an appointment to have your vehicle diagnosed. “


BOTTOM LINE;


The Executive Case Specialist at Audi of America, Inc. Customer Experience section are now pushing the issues off by portraying everything as fixed or a non-existent issue (however, one Service foreman told me theses are known issues with the Audi A6).

My car (2012 A6 with 20k miles) has been in to two different dealers, three times for a total of 10 days to address these problems. No luck.


My Dynamic Steering continues to be very flimsy (no torque after the steering update) and the MMI freezes-up once in a while.


Has anyone been able to find a dealership in the DC area that is no bull, and knows how to fix these issues?


Thanks!!
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:36 AM   #2
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DC is a strange place. Tyson's Corner and Chantilly are both Penske dealers. Rockville, MD is a Sonic dealer.

What exactly do you mean by "no torque" in the steering? Is it super light? Do you have aftermarket wheels or different tires on the car?

I had an issue on an A4 that Chantilly was able to resolve.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:42 AM   #3
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As to the steering issue, some have complained of a reduced steering effort in Dynamic mode after the electric steering update was applied (the update was designed and globally applied to reduce or eliminate wandering and/or "notchiness" many reported with the electric steering). Unfortunately for those who don't like the results of the update, reports indicate there is no way to reverse it. Perhaps, if there are enough complaints, Audi may offer another update in the future but for now, there is no "fix" to revert it back. (Do an AudiWorld forum search with "steering update" - much has been discussed on this topic),

What MMI software update do you have? (I suspect 0448 or 0468 if you have a 2012 C7) The latest is 0715-2. Others had previously reported that MMI 0566 (or 0609) corrected several issues, including freezing of the display with the update - I would presume 0715-2 would also contain those fixes. Ask your dealer to apply the latest MMI update which hopefully, would correct your freezing screen problem. Again, there were several forum threads on the subject.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:04 AM   #4
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I like Audi of Arlington (formerly Alexandria). Great customer service and should do the updates without question.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krboland View Post
1, Loss of torque in Dynamic Steering post application of steering update.
Well that identifies the cause of the problem - getting the crappy steering update that neuters the dynamic steering.

It is a travesty that Audi continues to push this so called "fix" onto unsuspecting customers and destroy the dynamic steering feel

As Snagit note, this is a know issue - lots of people unhappy with the results of this "fix" had on their dynamic steering. Not sure any dealer will be able to do anything as the process is supposedly irreversible. I would search steering update on this site and get back to AOA sharing them your concerns and not that you are not a lone voice talking but one of many who have this problem 0 shoot give them copies of the threads on here. Audi will not do anything to rectify the problem until enough people complain

For those of you who have not had the steering update done, and like your dynamic steering, make sure to let your service advisor know that under no circumstances are they allowed to do this "update" on your vehicle
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:15 AM   #6
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Just to mention the flip side of the coin, not everyone is unhappy with the electric steering update. For those, who have had the excessive off-center wandering (i.e. me) or those experiencing the reported, sometimes dangerous "notching" of the steering wheel (where there seems to be a detent of sorts before the steering takes effect), this update should mostly solve those issues. For those who prefer using the steering Comfort mode with its lesser effort, the update has no noticeable negative consequences. It's all a matter of preference and priorities if one needs a resolution to the previously mentioned steering issues.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:48 AM   #7
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I think the update can be summarized like this:

If you like the tighter dynamic steering mode - AVOID the update

If you like lesser effort comfort steering mode - then you may be happy with the update, especially if you were experiencing other issues

I guess to me what is ridiculous is that Audi makes a fix that makes some of their customers happy and some of their customers upset. If they are going to "fix" it, do it right and make everyone happy. No sense fixing one problem and creating another

And the worse part is - they try to push the update on everyone without warning of the detrimental effects it has on dynamic steering. Unless you are informed about the negative side effects from reading this or other forums, and are proactive telling your dealer do not do the update, Audi will push it on you with no chance to reverse it. That is bad customer service IMO
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Upgrades:

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* Hertz HSK165 Hi-Energy speakers, DLS OA10D Subwoofer, JL XD 700/5 amp, Audio Control LCQ-1 OEM integration, six channel signal processor and equalizer, fully dynamatted rear deck where the sub is mounted
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* 19" Avant Garde Wheels with Pirelli All Season Tires
* For winter - 18" Elbrus I02 wheels with Michelin X-Ice XI3 tires
* Llumar Air Blue 80 Tint

* Washed with IronX Snow Soap or Chemical Guys Clear Citrus via a foaming lance
* Detailed with CQuartz, Reload, PERL, Ultima Tire & Trim Guard




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Old 02-24-2014, 12:50 PM   #8
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I believe there are two things at play here.

First, there apparently were enough complaints about the electric steering, especially the potentially scary notching issue, that Audi felt it was necessary to do the update automatically when brought in for service. They must have also decided not to make it a safety recall which perhaps they felt would draw too much negative attention. No way to know their motivations for this, of course.

Second, I have a feeling that while they may have been aware of the Dynamic steering effort consequences, they could not maintain the same characteristics with the update as before due to limitations of the current electromechanical design. In other words, they couldn't make it work the way many owners would have preferred while at the same time solving the other potential driveability issues.

I'm guessing, since Audi felt it was safety related, they felt that automatically doing the update was the lesser of two evils from their perspective. Unfortunately, that always results in making some people unhappy. They could have made the update available only upon request by an owner but again, if they felt it was safety related, chose not to do so.

Maybe in the future they'll figure out a way to eliminate the compromises in the existing hardware/software. If it requires newly designed steering components, however, covering existing cars under warranty will be a tough (and expensive) pill for them to swallow. We'll just have to wait and see if A) there are enough owners complaining and if so, B) if it's even possible with the existing models' design.
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- 2002 allroad 2.7t - 14y/55K mi and still like new
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:27 AM   #9
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My Most recent converstions with.....Customer Service, Executive Case Specialist

If I read this correctly, when I asked for the AoA records they are using to determin the original date and specs of my complaints....the Customer Service folks are saying "get them yourself".

Am I being too senisitive (it has been 5 months, and two Executive Case Specialist, three visits to two dealers as well as three email to Scott Keogh to keep him informed about the progress or lack of progress)


Anna,

Okay, I will check.

I understand (from you reply)your office does not know what the complaints were and when they were brought to the attention of Audi.

If this is true, then I understand why you did not know these are the issues we have been working for months (close to 5 now) to resolve and not new issues.

I guess it is important to note Audi has been working these same issues for some time now.

I guess we are going on some 5 months now.....I am confident eventually someone will be able to fix the MMI freezing-up during backing problem....hopefully, Audi will develop a fix for the steering issue sometime in the near future.

Need to ensure I am on the list to be notified when the fix for the steering issue is released.

I am on the list to be contacted...right?

Thanks
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Harlan, Anna [mailto:Extern.Anna.Harlan@audi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:36 AM
To: Boland Kevin

Subject: RE: Please expedite response

Good morning Mr. Boland,

You may obtain a copy of the invoice/repair order from the authorized Audi dealerships in which your vehicle was diagnosed. The dealership will have the most up to date records of any vehicle concerns that you may have experienced.

Sincerely,

Anna Harlan
Executive Case Specialist

Audi of America, Inc.
Customer Experience
3800 Hamlin Road
Auburn Hills, MI 48326
United States of America
Tel. + 1 248 754 3528
Fax. + 1 248 754 6521
extern.anna.harlan@audi.com
http://www.audiusa.com





-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin.R.Boland
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:08 AM
To: Harlan, Anna
Subject: Please expedite response
Importance: High

Hi Anna,

In one of your last communications, you mention " On November 15, 2013 your vehicle was inspected by an Audi of America Technical Field Manager (TFM). At that time, your vehicle was found to be operating to manufacturer's specifications and no repair conditions were found to be present on the vehicle."


Would you please check the records from that visit and let me know what is reflected there as to the reason my vehicle was inspected by an Audi of America Technical Field Manager (TFM). What is recorded as my complaint?


Also please check the records from my visit to Audi of Tysons Corner previous to the visit to Audi of Silver Springs; were there any complaints at that time?


I know there must have been some complaint he (TFM)was addressing and ask you let me know what the record for my visit says.


This well help me determine if my two current complaints (change in Dynamic Steering post update and freezing display while backing both issues very well documented issues with Audi A6) might be associated with my original complaints.


As you have mentioned to me, and I now accept, any new complaints will need to be diagnosed at a dealership.



Thanks
Kevin
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:13 AM   #10
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"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

- Cool Hand Luke

Personally, I'd give them time to engineer an update. There's nothing you can do that will make them work any faster on your matter. As it stands now, nothing on your car is broken. You simply don't like the car. Go test drive a 2014 and decide if it's any better than what you have now. I think what you need is a placebo effect.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in2dwww View Post
"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

- Cool Hand Luke

Personally, I'd give them time to engineer an update. There's nothing you can do that will make them work any faster on your matter. As it stands now, nothing on your car is broken. You simply don't like the car. Go test drive a 2014 and decide if it's any better than what you have now. I think what you need is a placebo effect.


I think your right I expected too much from Audi both the car and the company.

(I bought the car in 2012 while still living in Stuttgart Germany)

My last car was a Nissan Altima…drove it for 10 years with only oil changes and new breaks twice; drove it for 7 years in Germany.

The Altima was not as quiet, and certainly did not have the HP the Audi has (175 vs 310) so you had to plan in advance if you wanted to pass anything.

But the car also cost some 30k less and had only 3 or so problems over 10 years’ vs 5-6 problem within the first 20k with the Audi.

If I can get anyone to take this one off my hands for the 42k I still owe, I think I will go back to something that will not be as disappointing.

What was I thinking; paying so much for a car and then expecting it to be so much more than other cars?

Audis do drive nice, quicker pick-up, manage noise better, and have more bells and whistles (and more of them to break); but Im not sure it is worth the 30k difference.

I guess this is one of those life lessons…something about shinny objects…. and…..be careful you don’t buy a “pig in a poke”!
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in2dwww View Post
"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

- Cool Hand Luke

Personally, I'd give them time to engineer an update. There's nothing you can do that will make them work any faster on your matter. As it stands now, nothing on your car is broken. You simply don't like the car. Go test drive a 2014 and decide if it's any better than what you have now. I think what you need is a placebo effect.



Oh, forgot to answer……

Regarding driving the 2014 A6…….. I drove one (a few days) last time my A6 was in the shop big difference in the steering ……….

Dynamic steering was very noticeably different from Comfort mode in the 2014….like it used to be in the 2012.

As for the MMI display freezing-up…..I only backed-up once or twice in the 2014….not often enough to see if the MMI worked better.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:40 AM   #13
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I'm not sure why people are enamored with getting the latest software updates on everything. I'm a software engineer and it takes a lot to convince me to upgrade anything without it being a major change.

That being said, I believe you're overlooking the build quality of your Audi. Sure, there's some cabin noise, but that's how BMW's from the 1990's are... it's called driver engagement. If you want to drive a coffin/tomb, then get a Lexus. Be boring. Go ahead. It's okay.

Overall, you paid for the Audi, you wanted the Audi, so you got what you wanted. It's not meeting your expectations at the moment, but if your only issues are software related, then the car is damn solid in my book. The problem is with your expectations and customer service.

Take a breath, step back, and relax. It's not like another software update won't fix or unfix the issue you have now.

As far as the price delta between a 10-year-old Nissan and a new Audi, there are factors like inflation and marginal utility that are at play. There is the old saying "Money can't buy happiness," that comes to mind.

I bought my A6 in January after owning 8 Mercedes models over the past 10 years. ALL cars have issues new or old. MB was the worst by far and I could swear to you that there were certain dealerships that sabotaged a few of my cars because they knew I'd be back in a month for another warranty claim. They have a way to game the system. I drew the line when a dealer overfilled my AMG by nearly 2 quarts, causing a massive oil leak, and then spawning oil consumption issues and a sooty exhaust. The car had 35k miles but it was out of warranty. I caught them red handed. I abandoned Mercedes after that.

If you've ever seen 'Fight Club,' there's a line that sums up car ownership perfectly. "The things you own end up owning you."

Quote:
Originally Posted by krboland View Post
I think your right I expected too much from Audi both the car and the company.

(I bought the car in 2012 while still living in Stuttgart Germany)

My last car was a Nissan Altima…drove it for 10 years with only oil changes and new breaks twice; drove it for 7 years in Germany.

The Altima was not as quiet, and certainly did not have the HP the Audi has (175 vs 310) so you had to plan in advance if you wanted to pass anything.

But the car also cost some 30k less and had only 3 or so problems over 10 years’ vs 5-6 problem within the first 20k with the Audi.

If I can get anyone to take this one off my hands for the 42k I still owe, I think I will go back to something that will not be as disappointing.

What was I thinking; paying so much for a car and then expecting it to be so much more than other cars?

Audis do drive nice, quicker pick-up, manage noise better, and have more bells and whistles (and more of them to break); but Im not sure it is worth the 30k difference.

I guess this is one of those life lessons…something about shinny objects…. and…..be careful you don’t buy a “pig in a poke”!
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by in2dwww View Post
"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

- Cool Hand Luke

Personally, I'd give them time to engineer an update. There's nothing you can do that will make them work any faster on your matter. As it stands now, nothing on your car is broken. You simply don't like the car. Go test drive a 2014 and decide if it's any better than what you have now. I think what you need is a placebo effect.
Disagree completely. Audi knows of the steering issues and the neutered dynamic steering with their latest "fix" - but they keep pushing that on people. Until people keep complaining Audi will do nothing

OP - keep up the good fight. Unfortunately, to get action, sometimes you need to create a lot of noise
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Upgrades:

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* Hertz HSK165 Hi-Energy speakers, DLS OA10D Subwoofer, JL XD 700/5 amp, Audio Control LCQ-1 OEM integration, six channel signal processor and equalizer, fully dynamatted rear deck where the sub is mounted
* Cocomats for spring / summer / fall, Lloyds Northridge Mats for winter
* 19" Avant Garde Wheels with Pirelli All Season Tires
* For winter - 18" Elbrus I02 wheels with Michelin X-Ice XI3 tires
* Llumar Air Blue 80 Tint

* Washed with IronX Snow Soap or Chemical Guys Clear Citrus via a foaming lance
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:16 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by in2dwww View Post

Overall, you paid for the Audi, you wanted the Audi, so you got what you wanted. It's not meeting your expectations at the moment, but if your only issues are software related, then the car is damn solid in my book. The problem is with your expectations and customer service.
So in essence you are saying to the OP shut up - your issues are not valid. Great. Spend $60K on something that doesn't work like you were led to believe it would and just suck it up and say nothing.

Oh my.
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Upgrades:

* X-Pel Ultimate extended hood / fenders (approx 24"), full front bumper, headlights, mirrors and rear bumper trunk loading area
* S6 sport pedals
* Hertz HSK165 Hi-Energy speakers, DLS OA10D Subwoofer, JL XD 700/5 amp, Audio Control LCQ-1 OEM integration, six channel signal processor and equalizer, fully dynamatted rear deck where the sub is mounted
* Cocomats for spring / summer / fall, Lloyds Northridge Mats for winter
* 19" Avant Garde Wheels with Pirelli All Season Tires
* For winter - 18" Elbrus I02 wheels with Michelin X-Ice XI3 tires
* Llumar Air Blue 80 Tint

* Washed with IronX Snow Soap or Chemical Guys Clear Citrus via a foaming lance
* Detailed with CQuartz, Reload, PERL, Ultima Tire & Trim Guard



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Old 02-27-2014, 08:16 AM   #16
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So in essence you are saying to the OP shut up - your issues are not valid. Great. Spend $60K on something that doesn't work like you were led to believe it would and just suck it up and say nothing.

Oh my.
I agree. The steering was borderline before the update, and now feels downright unsafe in Dynamic mode on the highway, especially in cold weather (<30* F).

From my experience with Honda/Acura in a similar situation (widespread issue affecting many cars - failing transmissions in that case), the automaker will repeatedly deny that there is an problem, it will issue patch "fixes" that do not remedy the problem, and there will ultimately be some type of nominal warranty extension. It seems here that the problem is the steering rack, and that Audi has done a cost/benefit analysis that indicates that replacing the steering rack on all cars will be prohibitively expensive, hence the software "update". What I don't get is why the update actually made the Dynamic steering worse on the highway in cold weather than it was before. You'd think they would test that somehow.

The next update will probably be to disable Dynamic mode entirely as an option in the MMI. I'm going to complain to my dealer and lodge a call to Audi as well. I realize that both efforts are likely futile, but I want the complaints noted.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:18 AM   #17
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I experienced none of the aforementioned steering issues in my ’13 A6 but since the car is leased the dealer went ahead and installed the update. It does seem a tad lighter in Dynamic, but to me the original Dynamic mode felt sort of gimmicky: an artificial feeling of greater physical input required with no offsetting quicker steering ratio. I parallel park a lot in urban situations, so one-handing the wheel while backing in is important to me; I usually leave the steering at Auto which makes it very light at low mph and then heavier when underway. To my knowledge, the steering ratio remains the same whether set at Dynamic, Comfort or Auto.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:50 AM   #18
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So in essence you are saying to the OP shut up - your issues are not valid. Great. Spend $60K on something that doesn't work like you were led to believe it would and just suck it up and say nothing.

Oh my.
People love to complain. I don't want to hear it. The next thing you know, someone will bitch and moan about missing soft close doors, and how it's inexcusable to omit that feature from a $50k+ car. On and on and on. The A6 is perfect in every way. That's why you bought it, that's why I bought it, that's why OP bought it.

If it's not the car you expected, then you're theoretically just a poser and you SHOULD be driving a Mercedes CLA instead. That's my viewpoint, and I'm sticking to it.

And no, OP's issues are not valid. I do not have that experience on my car. When I did have an issue with a 2013 VW Passat, I dumped that bitch and got myself something else.

Last edited by in2dwww; 02-27-2014 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:59 AM   #19
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It seems here that the problem is the steering rack, and that Audi has done a cost/benefit analysis that indicates that replacing the steering rack on all cars will be prohibitively expensive, hence the software "update".
This is purely speculative, I imagine.

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The next update will probably be to disable Dynamic mode entirely as an option in the MMI. I'm going to complain to my dealer and lodge a call to Audi as well. I realize that both efforts are likely futile, but I want the complaints noted.
If the complaints are high for 2012 and 2013 models, but low for 2014+, I don't think they'll care much if at all. But it would show that something has changed and an improvement was made somewhere.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:47 AM   #20
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People love to complain. I don't want to hear it.
Then stop reading. This forum is for people to post good, bad, indifferent. if people have complaints, they should post them. If you don't want to hear it too damn bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by in2dwww View Post
The next thing you know, someone will bitch and moan about missing soft close doors, and how it's inexcusable to omit that feature from a $50k+ car. On and on and on. The A6 is perfect in every way. That's why you bought it, that's why I bought it, that's why OP bought it.
Really, perfect in every way? Man you are out of your mind. While most of us really like our vehicle, I think only a shill would say it is perfect in every way. Everything can be improved. Nothing is perfect

Quote:
Originally Posted by in2dwww View Post
If it's not the car you expected, then you're theoretically just a poser and you SHOULD be driving a Mercedes CLA instead. That's my viewpoint, and I'm sticking to it.
unreal

Quote:
Originally Posted by in2dwww View Post
And no, OP's issues are not valid. I do not have that experience on my car.
So you are calling the OP a liar? And everyone else on the forum that has ever posted a complaint a liar because that is "not your experience". Really? Are you that naive or just not that smart? Every car does not have the same problems. Sometimes things happen. And there have been numerous people who have reported the issue with Dynamic Steering being neutered after the steering update. So I guess all those folks are just imagining things because you have not had that experience on your car
__________________
2013 A6 3.0t Premium Plus, Garnet Red / Black / Black Headliner, 19" Sport, Side Assist, Cold Weather package

Upgrades:

* X-Pel Ultimate extended hood / fenders (approx 24"), full front bumper, headlights, mirrors and rear bumper trunk loading area
* S6 sport pedals
* Hertz HSK165 Hi-Energy speakers, DLS OA10D Subwoofer, JL XD 700/5 amp, Audio Control LCQ-1 OEM integration, six channel signal processor and equalizer, fully dynamatted rear deck where the sub is mounted
* Cocomats for spring / summer / fall, Lloyds Northridge Mats for winter
* 19" Avant Garde Wheels with Pirelli All Season Tires
* For winter - 18" Elbrus I02 wheels with Michelin X-Ice XI3 tires
* Llumar Air Blue 80 Tint

* Washed with IronX Snow Soap or Chemical Guys Clear Citrus via a foaming lance
* Detailed with CQuartz, Reload, PERL, Ultima Tire & Trim Guard



Maverick61 is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:47 AM
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