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3.0 Starting Issues Possible Timing

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Old 11-23-2013, 04:33 AM   #1
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Default 3.0 Starting Issues Possible Timing

Just a quick intro with the car. I bought it in January 2012, put a little over 2k miles on it, before I was told the transmission was cracked. I parked the car and decided to pull the motor and trans, change the timing belt, gaskets and whatnot, while it was out. Nothing was wrong with the trans, just bad axle seals.

After getting the motor and trans back in the car, I began to have issues. One being the car wasnt even cranking over, and the gear indicator on the dash was all lit up. Replaced the Neutral Safety Switch, and it fixed that. The car still wasnt starting, just cranking. I was also getting codes for the 4 cams....

Quote:
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
P0341 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
16775 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G301): Implausible Signal
P0391 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
16750 - Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300): Implausible Signal
P0366 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
I figured out what caused the open short to plus code. The pins on that cam sensor and gotten bent, when I tried plugging it in. Fixed the pins and that code went away, and changed to the Implausible Signal like the other 3. I redone the timing 4 other times after that, getting the same codes. This last time I done the timing, I locked the crank shaft with the pin, cylinder 3 at top dead center, locked the cam gears in place, and proceeded with the rest.

Once I was done, I rotated the crank probably 30 times, making sure everything lined back up, which they did, at every other rotation of the crank. I did notice if the cams were 180* out, the cam lock tools wouldnt actually slide in to place, almost as if the cams tapered different on the opposite sides. Ran a compression test, just crossing my fingers that none of the valves had gotten bent, in my several attempts of trying to start the car. I got the following numbers from the compression test.

Cylinder 1 140, 2 140, 3 170, 4 150, 5 145, 6 145


I tried starting the car once again after all of this, and still not starting. Forgot to mention I am getting spark and fuel. I was suggested by an Audizine user to clear the fault codes 3x in a row within 30sec to reset the ecu.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:04 AM   #2
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i imagine you have alot going on in your head but you have to get your thoughts organized for us to help you .

1. What is "whatnot" be specific as to what you did when you removed the engine.
2. why did you prey that you didnt bend a valve ? did you do the valve allignement correctlty or not ? when the crank pin goes in the cams should line up with the cam bar .. its that simple . Cams and crank dont turn on a 1:1 ratio so im not worried about " every other turn".
3. What codes do you get today . ? clear it all , try to start and post codes.


My guess is you have a bad sensor if everything above checks out. when you turned it by hand you had zero resistance with the plugs out right ? if you had a piston contacting a valve it would most certainly " clink".

..and lastly .. during all this time you are sure you have good gas right ?
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:39 AM   #3
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Sorry, I was in a bit of a hurry, and yes, a lot has been going through my mind dealing with this situation.

When I had the motor and trans out, I replaced valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket, changed out the timing belt, tensioners, water pump gaskets. With the trans, I replaced the 2 front axle seals, trans fluid filter and tail shaft seal.

The 3.0's use 2 cam locks, not the bar as the 2.7 and 2.8 uses. It seems as if they only slide on easily one way, and look to need to be forced on another way.

I cleared the codes that were stored (the 4 implausible signal codes I posted before) tried starting the car a couple of times. Im still getting the same 4 implausible signal codes. Gas is fresh.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:01 PM   #4
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Went ahead and changed out the cam sensors, since I had new ones laying around. They didnt change anything with how the car was acting. Cleared the codes, tried starting the car a few times and still nothing. Scanned with vcds and getting the following..

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2
Sunday, 24 November 2013, 18:36:52:47197
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 909 559 E
Component and/or Version: 3.0L V6/5V G 0003
Software Coding: 0016752
Work Shop Code: WSC 02325
VCID: 370110820655
4 Faults Found:

16730 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G163): Implausible Signal
P0346 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
P0341 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
16775 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G301): Implausible Signal
P0391 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
16750 - Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300): Implausible Signal
P0366 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:45 PM   #5
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Your best bet is to check each pin back to the ECU or ground if that pin applies and inspect the wiring harness, those codes are way too obvious that similar "grouped" signals are not getting home.
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Last edited by jcman; 11-24-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 11-24-2013, 04:06 PM   #6
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Grab that VOM meter and use these pdf's.
Good Luck!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf CMP 1 and 2.pdf (97.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: pdf CMP 3 and 4.pdf (91.9 KB, 14 views)
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:51 AM   #7
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You mention the signals may not be getting home to the ecu...not sure if this helps, but when I had all 4 sensors unplugged, I was getting..

17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

17746 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Open or Short to Plus
P1338 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

19758 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G301): Short to Ground
P3302 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded

19756 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 1 (G300): Short to Ground
P3300 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:49 AM   #8
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your intake timing is off ......

read this thread for some clues.

someone with a 3.0 will have to walk you through as i cant help , i have a 2.8

http://audisrs.com/archive/16730-cam...t__t_7828.html
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdewaynex View Post
You mention the signals may not be getting home to the ecu...not sure if this helps, but when I had all 4 sensors unplugged, I was getting..

17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

17746 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Open or Short to Plus
P1338 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

19758 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G301): Short to Ground
P3302 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded

19756 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 1 (G300): Short to Ground
P3300 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
Implausible Signal & No Signal/Communication clearly means what it says now, so far you had ruled out faulty or bad sensors "right" and the codes have nothing to do with cam timing, check out your ground paths 200&220 from the sensors.
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Last edited by jcman; 11-25-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:34 PM   #10
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Thanks for the reply. I got the pins from the sensors to the ecu figured out, just working on finding out how the pins are numbered at the ecu, so I can begin testing everything. Im hoping its just something simple and stupid as a bad wire. This car has become such a big headache in the last couple of months, but Im not the type that accepts defeat, so I keep going at it.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:45 AM   #11
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Good luck . make sure you read the link i posted .
Looks like someone had a very similar issue to yours . Seems his timing ws off so the ecu didnt see the signal when it expected it or not at the right value so flagged a message of implausable signal

implausable signal basically means an out of range signal according to the ross rtech site.

Anyway good luck and post back what you find.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:07 PM   #12
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Ok I just read your post on Audizine and I'm wondering when you did your TB service if you set the cam timing with the castle tip socket?

Even though I think an implausible signal is a sporadic or choppy "not complete" signal it could be possible that the timing is out, it seems there are other codes suggesting off timing values.

Crank pin, cam locks and the very special socket are always required for cam timing adjustment on a 3.0, anything less is a crap shoot into hell.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:34 PM   #13
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Yea, the last 2 times, I removed the belt and reinstalled it, I used the special socket for the cams. When I first done it, I wasnt aware of, and Ive even been told that its not really necessary.
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:46 AM   #14
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Copied from Audizine:

Finally got a break in the weather, so I went outside a bit ago, and done the tests that were mentioned above. First I checked the 3 pins on the cam sensors and brake booster sensor, with the ignition on. Pin 3 on all sensors gave me a negative reading when I touched the positive battery post as mentioned above.

G301 (upper passenger sensor) Pin 1: 4.6v Pin 2: 10.7v Pin 3: -12v
G300 (lower passenger sensor) Pin 1: 4.3v Pin 2: 10.4v Pin 3: -12v
G40 (lower driver sensor) Pin 1: 5v Pin 2: 10.7v Pin 3: -8v
G163 (upper driver sensor) Pin 1: 5v Pin 2: 10.7v Pin 3: -7v

Like I said, Im not sure if I was suppose to be getting a negative reading for pin 3.

Now on to the pins of the sensors to the pins on the ecu.

Pin 1 to pin 98 and Pin 3 to pin 108 all checked out fine. Now Pin 2 is where I ran into a problem. Pin 2 on G301 and G40, I was not getting a signal back. Pin 2 on G163 and G300, I was getting a good signal back. I also tried starting the car with the brake booster sensor unplugged and it didnt change anything.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:11 AM   #15
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G301 pin 2 should be Green/White and goes to #54 harness to the ecu, G40 pin 2 should be Yellow/Black and goes to #87 ecu.

That is a problem for sure because even the pdf's show a direct path on both pins.

Good luck! Hope you figure it out.
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Last edited by jcman; 11-30-2013 at 01:03 PM. Reason: 87 correction
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:51 AM   #16
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I think you meant 87 and not 97. But yea, Im not sure what to do at this point, or even how that signal of just those 2 sensors got messed up, from the time I pulled the engine and reinstalled it.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:01 PM   #17
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One thing I dont understand, is why Im not getting a reading for pin 2 and the ecu connection pins 87 and 54, but I got a voltage reading at pin 2 when the battery and ecu was connected.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdewaynex View Post
I think you meant 87 and not 97. But yea, Im not sure what to do at this point, or even how that signal of just those 2 sensors got messed up, from the time I pulled the engine and reinstalled it.
Oops! My bad 87 is right.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdewaynex View Post
One thing I dont understand, is why Im not getting a reading for pin 2 and the ecu connection pins 87 and 54, but I got a voltage reading at pin 2 when the battery and ecu was connected.
Not sure about that, are you checking continuity between pin 2 and the perspective 54 and 87 points?
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:43 AM   #20
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So I went back outside yesterday to retrace the 2 pin connectors that I wasnt receiving a signal for. Im still getting the same results. Im wondering if its possible to run new wires for those 2 pins or use quick splices and see if that helps anything. I was also thinking of testing the passenger side pin to the ecu pin for the driver side connector, just to see if something maybe got switch. Just tossing ideas, as Im at another stand still.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:43 AM
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