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New Member, 2000 A6 4.2 6-Speed Swap

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Old 07-04-2012, 08:50 PM   #1
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Default New Member, 2000 A6 4.2 6-Speed Swap

Greetings all,

I've had my 2000 A6 4.2 for 11 months. Really love the car, FWIW it's Casablanca White/Melange, and currently has 133K on the clock. About two weeks ago, with absolutely no warning, the TIP decided to seriously act up. Best analogy I can come up with, and yes I stole this from another post but don't know where and by whom, my apologies, is a newbie learning to drive a manual. They have a tendency to feed the gas too fast and let out the clutch too slow, then it will engage with a bang. I did the requisite Trans Service, and when I dropped the pan, nothing looked too bad, the magnets looked average, perhaps 1/8 - 3/16ths of "porcupine", and the fluid was dark, but not opaque. Did a re-drain and fill about a week later. Used RedLine's D4 both times as recommended by Griffin Motorwerke, who has never steered me in the wrong direction over the course of the past 30 years. Well, the service didn't do much, and the TIP has its good and bad days, sometimes it will act normal, others, well, I've become a bit familiar with Limp Mode. So now I figure the TiP is at the end of it's useful life, and while I was just going to have Griffin rebuild it, upgraded of course, the Mod bug snuck in and I got to thinking to myself "self, why don't you do a 6-speed Manual?"

Just a little history, this is my first Audi, and the car was given a clean bill of health by Griffin when I purchased it 28K miles ago. I come to you from the BMW camp, having owned E30, E36, E34, E38, and an E46, and wasn't able to find an E46 iX. I really needed AWD this time around. Mechanically, other than the TIP issue, the car is mechanically sound, so to me, it's worth the cost and effort of replacing the transmission.

So having read the forums here and at AZ, that seems to be the direction I'm headed. I've already spoken with Phil and Bryan over at Audis5Parts, and will be purchasing the swap kit in the next few days, I may try and get the car to limp to Tucson, as they have the best R&R labor price so far. I've also spoken with JHM and they assure me they can recode the ECU to make this work. Unfortunately, I have the worst MY to do this swap.

Normally I would tackle this on my own, and it would have been fun to do a DIY, but I'm pretty busy, and have shoulder surgery coming up at the end of the month, so I will have to leave it to the pro's. It will get done at one of three places: JHM, Audis4Parts, or Griffin.

Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted as to how it all shakes out. I'll be posting this over at AZ too.

Joe
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:06 AM   #2
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Greetings all,

I've had my 2000 A6 4.2 for 11 months. Really love the car, FWIW it's Casablanca White/Melange, and currently has 133K on the clock. About two weeks ago, with absolutely no warning, the TIP decided to seriously act up. Best analogy I can come up with, and yes I stole this from another post but don't know where and by whom, my apologies, is a newbie learning to drive a manual. They have a tendency to feed the gas too fast and let out the clutch too slow, then it will engage with a bang. I did the requisite Trans Service, and when I dropped the pan, nothing looked too bad, the magnets looked average, perhaps 1/8 - 3/16ths of "porcupine", and the fluid was dark, but not opaque. Did a re-drain and fill about a week later. Used RedLine's D4 both times as recommended by Griffin Motorwerke, who has never steered me in the wrong direction over the course of the past 30 years. Well, the service didn't do much, and the TIP has its good and bad days, sometimes it will act normal, others, well, I've become a bit familiar with Limp Mode. So now I figure the TiP is at the end of it's useful life, and while I was just going to have Griffin rebuild it, upgraded of course, the Mod bug snuck in and I got to thinking to myself "self, why don't you do a 6-speed Manual?"

Just a little history, this is my first Audi, and the car was given a clean bill of health by Griffin when I purchased it 28K miles ago. I come to you from the BMW camp, having owned E30, E36, E34, E38, and an E46, and wasn't able to find an E46 iX. I really needed AWD this time around. Mechanically, other than the TIP issue, the car is mechanically sound, so to me, it's worth the cost and effort of replacing the transmission.

So having read the forums here and at AZ, that seems to be the direction I'm headed. I've already spoken with Phil and Bryan over at Audis5Parts, and will be purchasing the swap kit in the next few days, I may try and get the car to limp to Tucson, as they have the best R&R labor price so far. I've also spoken with JHM and they assure me they can recode the ECU to make this work. Unfortunately, I have the worst MY to do this swap.

Normally I would tackle this on my own, and it would have been fun to do a DIY, but I'm pretty busy, and have shoulder surgery coming up at the end of the month, so I will have to leave it to the pro's. It will get done at one of three places: JHM, Audis4Parts, or Griffin.

Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted as to how it all shakes out. I'll be posting this over at AZ too.

Joe
Hi Joe,
That's quite a task to tackle, the only guy I know of achieving this in a 4.2 is Gabor or Tozo is his user name, he usually hangs out in the a8 d2 forum, he knows the Audi transmissions inside out, so he's the guy to go to if you have any questions, he's kinda hard to miss because Everybody knows him
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:28 AM   #3
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I did this swap myself several years ago... It's not really that terribly difficult, just time consuming. It sounds like you're talking to the right people about doing it for you, so I think you're on the right path.

Side note: 28k miles in 11 months, if I'm reading correctly? Too much windshield time for me.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:56 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Teutonix View Post
I did this swap myself several years ago... It's not really that terribly difficult, just time consuming. It sounds like you're talking to the right people about doing it for you, so I think you're on the right path.

Side note: 28k miles in 11 months, if I'm reading correctly? Too much windshield time for me.
You interpreted that correctly, 28K in 11 months, I drive a lot, and those miles are just for this car LOL. Recently did a Banzai trip to Chicago and back in 68 hours to pick up something a bit more interesting for my brother.

How do you like the conversion? I'm thinking it will transform the car into something that'll be a lot more fun to drive.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:57 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Teutonix View Post
I did this swap myself several years ago... It's not really that terribly difficult, just time consuming. It sounds like you're talking to the right people about doing it for you, so I think you're on the right path.

Side note: 28k miles in 11 months, if I'm reading correctly? Too much windshield time for me.
Which tranny did you use?
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:03 PM   #6
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You interpreted that correctly, 28K in 11 months, I drive a lot, and those miles are just for this car LOL. Recently did a Banzai trip to Chicago and back in 68 hours to pick up something a bit more interesting for my brother.

How do you like the conversion? I'm thinking it will transform the car into something that'll be a lot more fun to drive.
It was pretty nice. The low-end torque was the best part. In the end, I still prefer a turbo engine, so I only drove the car for about a year before selling.


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Which tranny did you use?
An 01E 6spd from a 2.7t A6. It was a while ago, so I don't remember the specific code. I pulled the entire drivetrain from a donor car. I sold the 6spd 4.2 car to a private party about 2 years ago.

About 1-2 years prior to this, I built a v8/5-speed '92 100cs quattro avant. That car was actually more fun than the later A6 V8 6-spd.
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:16 PM   #7
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If you haven't seen it, this may be of interest?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tulli...C/206339962785

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...9962785&type=3
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:26 PM   #8
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OK, the time has finally come to kick off this project. I got the swap kit from Brian at Audis4parts and have chosen JHM to do the swap. JHM, as of Monday, has the car and will be commencing the project. Of course, I couldn't leave well enough alone, and we're doing a bunch of other stuff as well. Working with Jason and Dru at JHM, we're looking into a big brake kit (with the Porsche Brembo calipers) and hoping to make this a reality. Will keep you guys posted on the progress. JHM will have the car for at least the next 3 weeks.

The main factor in choosing JHM, was the ECU was going to have to go there anyway, and as Dru explained, the fact they would have the ECU on site for 3 weeks would result in what can effectively be called a custom tune, as they will have the opportunity to make tweaks, run the car and make further tweaks as needed. I can't wait to get her back.

Joe
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:26 PM   #9
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Thanks for keeping us posted.

The 4.2 came with a 6-speed in Europe, so they definitely have programs for the ECU to handle this. One option is to check with MTM, since it's a German tuner, about using their ECU or program.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:53 PM   #10
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Not sure what the question is in this, but a few comments:

1. The torque converters are the known weak point. You cna have it rebuilt.
2. Many, many people have done MT6 swaps. Most S6s. I understand there is even a kit, or so i heard - search here and on other similar forums (hint, hint)
3. If you do the swap, other things change. For example, the car is now lighter, and the nose rises on its springs. Good to lose weight, bad to have an inclined car, rather than an inclined plane :-)
4. 4.2s if well maintained are otherwise durable. Done the timing belt and front control arms yet?

Grant
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:11 PM   #11
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Joe,

Getting any suspension or exhaust work done while it's up there? My 2K4.2 at nearly 150K, orignial sport suspension...is overdue for some of both.

Wondering if anything else is getting treatment, and what if any? Some out there might suggest thicker anti-sways w/maybe new bushings would be an inexpensive and worthwhile upgrade, if all else is OK.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:20 AM   #12
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Not sure what the question is in this, but a few comments:

1. The torque converters are the known weak point. You cna have it rebuilt.
2. Many, many people have done MT6 swaps. Most S6s. I understand there is even a kit, or so i heard - search here and on other similar forums (hint, hint)
3. If you do the swap, other things change. For example, the car is now lighter, and the nose rises on its springs. Good to lose weight, bad to have an inclined car, rather than an inclined plane :-)
4. 4.2s if well maintained are otherwise durable. Done the timing belt and front control arms yet?

Grant
Grant,

The swap is going to happen, in fact we're in the middle of it right now. Yeah I know the TCs are week, but I'm pretty sure the TIP is toast, only 5th and Reverse were left when I trailered the car to JHM. Yes, there is a kit available from Brian at audis4parts. Yep on the nose rise, that's why the coilovers are next on the list. Timing belt was done about 30K ago, as were the control arms. Control arms are being redone with 034 adjustables this time around.

Joe
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:45 AM   #13
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Joe,

Getting any suspension or exhaust work done while it's up there? My 2K4.2 at nearly 150K, orignial sport suspension...is overdue for some of both.

Wondering if anything else is getting treatment, and what if any? Some out there might suggest thicker anti-sways w/maybe new bushings would be an inexpensive and worthwhile upgrade, if all else is OK.
Suspension work yes, exhaust, not this time around.

Besides the swap, here's what we're doing:

4:1 center diff upgrade
034 Motor Mounts
H-Sport RS6 swaybars
034 Aluminium Sub Frame Bushings
JHM Linkage upgrade
JHM Short Shift kit

Next on the list:

Wheels/tires
H&R Coilover
Exhaust
Finish the stereo
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:41 PM   #14
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well, sounds like you're way ahead of me! Have fun! I envy you MT6-ers
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:31 PM   #15
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JA6X,

Any update on the swap? Hope it is going well. I just past 20K miles on my conversion - and so far so good.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2807241

Good luck.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:46 PM   #16
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JA6X,

Any update on the swap? Hope it is going well. I just past 20K miles on my conversion - and so far so good.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2807241

Good luck.
Hello all,

Hope everyone has had a wonderful holiday season.

The car returned on Friday, yes I know three months is a long time for a trans swap, but I guess the guys at JHM were busy, plus I wasn't in any real hurry to get her back, but she's back and sporting a 01E six speed. Here's what we did, with a cursory review on the items.

01E Transmission swap kit from audis4parts.com

Outstanding kit from Bryan and co. All necessary parts for the swap were included and the kit was shipped directly to JHM. Would definitely use them again, and wholeheartedly recommend them for those wanting to do the swap.

JHM 4:1 Center Diff Upgrade

Noticeably moves bias rearward, car feels more neutral with less "push", IMO a worthy update.

034 Motorsport (Motorsport Line) Motor Mounts with 10mm Hardware
034 Motorsport Aluminum Sub Frame Bushings
JHM Transmission Mount and Spacer Kit (Track Density 90% stiffer)

These three items definitely increased the Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) as much more is transmitted into the passenger area, however, the trade off of increased NVH is definitely worth the much more positive feel of the car, and the ability for the suspension to get more power to the ground. I would expect the NVH to be more severe on V-6 motors as the V-8 is a smoother, even firing motor by design. The increase in NVH is most apparent at or near idle, once underway, the increase in NVH is negligible.

JHM Lightweight Flywheel
JHM Stage 3 Clutch
B7 RS4 Pressure Plate for 2.7t

I'm exceptionally impressed with these three items. The single mass flywheel works very well in combination with the Stage 3 clutch and the B7 RS4 pressure plate. The motor spins freely with this combination. There is absolutely no chatter on initial take up of the clutch from a dead stop. This is something I was prepared to accept as a side effect of utilizing a lightweight single mass flywheel. I am pleasantly surprised.

JHM Cross Rod Upgrade
JHM Shifter
JHM "solid" Linkage
JHM Bushings
JHM Weighted Stainless Steel **** (brushed, no knurl)

Although I don't have experience with a stock Audi shifter, IMO, this is the way these cars should have come from the factory. Very positive with a great feel, the weighted shift **** has a nice feel in hand, and even though it gets very cold in a cold climate, it does warm up fairly quickly once the interior has warmed up. I would assume it will get pretty hot in the summer and hope it cools as quickly once the cabin area cools, time will tell. Overall I'm very pleased with this aspect of the JHM treatment.

JHM ECU Tuning for C5 A6, 4.2L (40v) Manual Swap

JHM hit one out of the park with this tune. I suspect they have freed up some additional ponies, because the car feels much crisper. This may be related to the different final drive (4.11 vs 2.73), more efficient transfer of power to the pavement from the above mentioned items, but it feels stronger. As for drivability, all I can say is spectacular. The car acts as if the Audi ECU gurus themselves did the tuning. The car idles perfectly, there is no over-run on shifts, no hesitation on shifts, it just works. Additionally, no lights are illuminated on the dash, the "when stationary apply foot brake while selecting gear" warning is no longer there, and the PRND432 at the bottom of the cluster is no longer there.

H-Sport (Hotchkis) Sway Bars

Well worth it, the car is much flatter in the corners with little to no body roll. We opted for the RS6 bars (35mm front, 24mm rear). Extremely happy with this mod.

Additionally, there were some "maintenance" items that needed to be addressed:

Front Axles with new CV Joints
034 Motorsport Adjustable Front Upper Control Arm Kit (Density Line)
New Starter
New Power Steering Pump

All in all, I'm very please with how this has turned out. I've put about 150 miles on the car since I got it back and it has been pleasurable and a lot more fun! It ended up costing more than I anticipated, however, I've done major mods to cars in the past, and actually came in "under budget" using my extremely scientific method of "take what you think it will cost and triple it". If I had to do it all over again, or when this MT dies, I probably go with a Euro TDI 01E transmission, or go to with a taller 6th gear, as the 4.2 likes to loaf at highway speed, and currently, it's about 3,000 RPM at 80MPH, with a 0.60 it would be 2,650RPM, and with a 0.56 it would be 2,450 RPM at 80 MPH.

Everyone have a great and safe New Years!!!

Joe
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:23 PM   #17
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Default Wow....

JA6X,
Nice work....Your rendition of the work you've had done read like a mod manual all it's own...Thank you for the inspiration! Just hit the JHM site and it's like being a kid in a toy store...I just got my Allroad and seeing all the things that can be done to enhance an already decent machine is really making me more enthusiastic about the car.
...
It also addresses a question I have about clusters...Deciding whether to repair or replace the thing for dead pixels. I'm lucky enough to have have an OEM manual trans, so I'm only dealing with these silly things. Can VCDS be used to eliminate the shift indicator if I change the cluster or would I need to utilize a tuner? Would the replacement cluster "know" it is now in a manual car? I have a 2001 C5. I see plenty of used "#2" clusters out there (assuming immo) and that was the only other compatibility issue. Not even worried about mileage, I can get close enough to not worry about that. Thanks all for reading and replying...
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:28 PM   #18
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JA6X,
Nice work....Your rendition of the work you've had done read like a mod manual all it's own...Thank you for the inspiration! Just hit the JHM site and it's like being a kid in a toy store...I just got my Allroad and seeing all the things that can be done to enhance an already decent machine is really making me more enthusiastic about the car.
...
It also addresses a question I have about clusters...Deciding whether to repair or replace the thing for dead pixels. I'm lucky enough to have have an OEM manual trans, so I'm only dealing with these silly things. Can VCDS be used to eliminate the shift indicator if I change the cluster or would I need to utilize a tuner? Would the replacement cluster "know" it is now in a manual car? I have a 2001 C5. I see plenty of used "#2" clusters out there (assuming immo) and that was the only other compatibility issue. Not even worried about mileage, I can get close enough to not worry about that. Thanks all for reading and replying...
Thanks for the kind words. I was pretty sure the other members wanted an unbiased review of the parts used. I paid for all of them, so if they didn't work, or were sub par, I definitely would have said something in the review. As for the dead pixels, I used ModuleMaster in Idaho, I think it was less than $200 including expedited shipping, I had the cluster shipped and returned in 5 days, and it was perfect, I'm really glad I got it done. Be especially careful getting the two screws that hold the cluster in, they're fine thread and hardened, and if you bugger one, the solution is not pretty (ask me how I know). As for coding out the shift light, I would ask DDillenger, he's on here and seems to be very knowledgable when it comes to the ECU. I'm still learning the VCDS, and haven't found a good mentor yet, so I will be of little help with those items.

Yes the JHM site is like a toy store, their sales guys are great too Dru, Jake and Keaton are a joy to work with and know their stuff. Don't forget to check out the 034 site too. Good luck with the AllRoad, I'm sure you're gonna love it. I'm a dyed in the wool BMW convert, and these cars are just more interesting. Let me know if I can help with anything.

Joe
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:03 PM   #19
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Default I know this is an old thread, but....

Can anyone give me any advice of a 5 (yes five) speed gearbox for the 4.2 please?

I have an Audi 012 5 speed from a Porsche Boxster ( a car that I was originally going to use the drive train out of for a mid engined project). The Boxster engine is scrap, so my plans moved towards a 4.2 drive train (using a early D2 as a donor) in the mid engined car..

Apart from 'don't can anyone give me any advice of if I can use this g/box with a 4.2? I have an A8 as the summer car, so like the drive train and the cars.... would love to give an A/S8 another lease of life...

I've read it may be possible, but I'm seeking some confirmation please guys..


Thanks,

K9
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