Red Oil Warning Pressure MFI symbol but oil level full
07-17-2010, 11:38 AM
#1
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Red Oil Warning Pressure MFI symbol but oil level full
<b>2002 allroad 2.7T, Tiptronic, 115K miles</b>
I had a low oil pressure warning indicator light (the MFI display of the red oil can with the dripping oil) today when the car was running at 2K RPM. It was 98 degrees F outside. I stopped the car immediately and checked the oil level. The level is above max.
I started car again 5 minutes later and the warning did not re-appear. So I drove 4 miles home at moderate rpms. Still no warning. Car is now parked in the garage.
I ran a VCDS scan and no faults at all.
Could this be just a bad sensor?
The last oil (synthetic) change was 1500 miles ago when a timing belt and associated components were changed. The oil level on the dipstick is actually above the max indicator line (indie apparently put 7+ quarts of oil in). The oil filter is one from the Audi dealer.
The oil temperature was OK according to the instrument cluster analog gauge.
I am leaking oil nearer the back of the engine. This is recent. But I think the leak is transmission fluid. (Yeah...a bad sign.) I'm seeing a dozen drops each day on my garage floor coming from the back of the rear belly pan cover. (The allroad has two covers - front and rear.)
I had a low oil pressure warning indicator light (the MFI display of the red oil can with the dripping oil) today when the car was running at 2K RPM. It was 98 degrees F outside. I stopped the car immediately and checked the oil level. The level is above max.
I started car again 5 minutes later and the warning did not re-appear. So I drove 4 miles home at moderate rpms. Still no warning. Car is now parked in the garage.
I ran a VCDS scan and no faults at all.
Could this be just a bad sensor?
The last oil (synthetic) change was 1500 miles ago when a timing belt and associated components were changed. The oil level on the dipstick is actually above the max indicator line (indie apparently put 7+ quarts of oil in). The oil filter is one from the Audi dealer.
The oil temperature was OK according to the instrument cluster analog gauge.
I am leaking oil nearer the back of the engine. This is recent. But I think the leak is transmission fluid. (Yeah...a bad sign.) I'm seeing a dozen drops each day on my garage floor coming from the back of the rear belly pan cover. (The allroad has two covers - front and rear.)
Last edited by Mr. Timewise; 07-17-2010 at 11:48 AM.
07-17-2010, 02:37 PM
#2
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Does the 2.7T have cam chain tensioners? what "associated work" was done? Also, the turbos are back there by the transmission. Have you determined that it's leaking transmission or motor oil? It should be very easy to tell.
07-17-2010, 09:55 PM
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Please excuse my ignorance about the cam tensioners. I do believe the 2.7T does have a hydraulic tensioner in each bank, but I'm not 100% sure. I know for certain those parts were not changed during the TB work because I bought all the parts for the technician to install. (I changed the TB and "associated parts" (all the pulleys, tensioners, water pump, serpentine belt, thermostat, etc.) myself on a A6 about two years ago. I did not change the hydraulic cam tensioners then.)
The leaking oil is probably transmission oil. I haven't determined this 100% because I'm too lazy * to get under the car and look at the exact location from which it is dripping. The oil on the garage floor is mixed with some fine dust and water (from the air conditioner). I just placed a clean metal tray under the car to collect the oil drops so I can investigate it tomorrow. Because the oil was changed so recently, the engine oil on the dipstick looks clean. The oil on the garage floor does have a slightly pinker color compared to what I see in the engine oil so I'm rather sure it is transmission oil. I'll know for sure later tomorrow.
* OK maybe "lazy" was the wrong word to use. I wrote this post at nearly 1:00 AM and after we returned from an outdoor concert where I certainly consumed too much wine and the temperature had been over 100 degrees.
The leaking oil is probably transmission oil. I haven't determined this 100% because I'm too lazy * to get under the car and look at the exact location from which it is dripping. The oil on the garage floor is mixed with some fine dust and water (from the air conditioner). I just placed a clean metal tray under the car to collect the oil drops so I can investigate it tomorrow. Because the oil was changed so recently, the engine oil on the dipstick looks clean. The oil on the garage floor does have a slightly pinker color compared to what I see in the engine oil so I'm rather sure it is transmission oil. I'll know for sure later tomorrow.
* OK maybe "lazy" was the wrong word to use. I wrote this post at nearly 1:00 AM and after we returned from an outdoor concert where I certainly consumed too much wine and the temperature had been over 100 degrees.
Last edited by Mr. Timewise; 07-18-2010 at 06:41 PM.
07-18-2010, 09:55 AM
#5
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Based on your descriptions, I can say with certainty that...
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07-18-2010, 09:59 AM
#6
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Kidding, of course. Get your widowmaker jack out, jack the car up as high as it will go, pull your full size spare out, slide it under the LF jacking point, get under there with a flashlight and take a look. Take some pictures, and you'll have people who are a bit more eager to help you troubleshoot.
07-18-2010, 06:16 PM
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I changed the oil and filter. (This is not an easy job for me as I have an inner ear imbalance problem and get violently sick when I tilt my head when lying on my back. I've had two stapedectomies to give me my hearing back but the result is nausea when lying flat.)
The forward belly pan did have some oil around the center rear attachment screw. And there was also oil on the front center area of the rear belly pan. But further back it looked dry.
The drips on the collection pan I slid under the rear of the engine and front of the transmission look the color of clean engine oil or clean transmission fluid. I just cannot distinguish this well enough to be sure it is one or the other. Isn't automatic transmission oil somewhat pink in color? I cannot smell any significant difference between fresh engine oil and the drips I collected.
I'm unable to raise the car on a lift, so I'm using just jack stands. I cannot lay on my back and move my head around so I cannot crawl all the way under the car, look up, and determine precisely where the oil is coming from. It is certainly at the back of the engine, not at the back of the transmission.
Yes, foolish me, there are hydraulic chain tensioners on the 2.7T. The hydraulic tensioner on the back side of the right cylinder bank) has a thin film of old oil and dirt...but it is not wet with oil.
A couple weeks ago I changed the secondary air injection pump, distribution "Y" air hose, and both combi valves. The right side combi valve is next to the hydraulic tensioner. During the SAI work my hands did not get unusually dirty with oil that would have leaked from the gasket and half moon seal at that location. See: http://search.audiworld.com/showthre...2773976&page=2
Anyway..
After changing the oil and filter I drove the car for 30 minutes without any low oil pressure warning light. The oil reached about 210 degrees F per the oil temperature gauge and held there nice and steady. Outdoor temperature was 85 degrees F.
Question...Could a combination of the extremely high outdoor temperature yesterday (98 degrees), sitting in traffic for 30 minutes, an oil that might have been too thin (selected without my knowledge by an indie who did an oil change 1500 miles ago), and overfill of the oil (I'm guessing a half quart too much) be the cause of either or both of the dripping and low oil pressure light?
The forward belly pan did have some oil around the center rear attachment screw. And there was also oil on the front center area of the rear belly pan. But further back it looked dry.
The drips on the collection pan I slid under the rear of the engine and front of the transmission look the color of clean engine oil or clean transmission fluid. I just cannot distinguish this well enough to be sure it is one or the other. Isn't automatic transmission oil somewhat pink in color? I cannot smell any significant difference between fresh engine oil and the drips I collected.
I'm unable to raise the car on a lift, so I'm using just jack stands. I cannot lay on my back and move my head around so I cannot crawl all the way under the car, look up, and determine precisely where the oil is coming from. It is certainly at the back of the engine, not at the back of the transmission.
Yes, foolish me, there are hydraulic chain tensioners on the 2.7T. The hydraulic tensioner on the back side of the right cylinder bank) has a thin film of old oil and dirt...but it is not wet with oil.
A couple weeks ago I changed the secondary air injection pump, distribution "Y" air hose, and both combi valves. The right side combi valve is next to the hydraulic tensioner. During the SAI work my hands did not get unusually dirty with oil that would have leaked from the gasket and half moon seal at that location. See: http://search.audiworld.com/showthre...2773976&page=2
Anyway..
After changing the oil and filter I drove the car for 30 minutes without any low oil pressure warning light. The oil reached about 210 degrees F per the oil temperature gauge and held there nice and steady. Outdoor temperature was 85 degrees F.
Question...Could a combination of the extremely high outdoor temperature yesterday (98 degrees), sitting in traffic for 30 minutes, an oil that might have been too thin (selected without my knowledge by an indie who did an oil change 1500 miles ago), and overfill of the oil (I'm guessing a half quart too much) be the cause of either or both of the dripping and low oil pressure light?
Last edited by Mr. Timewise; 07-18-2010 at 06:30 PM.
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07-18-2010, 06:35 PM
#8
AudiWorld Member
All of that taken into account. There are only two of those that would have affected your oil pressure that much here.
Too thin of oil is one. This most certainly is from putting in the wrong viscosity.
The heat combined with that wrong viscosity oil thinning it out enough that your oil pump couldn't put out the correct pressure.
I don't know why people are dwelling on the leak. Unless that leak caused either a low oil condition (it didn't) or was right at the oil pressure switch causing an incorrect reading, that leak had nothing to do with it.
You should still fix it of coarse.
Once you've made sure the correct oil is put in (new filter too) then you need to start looking at the more expensive possibilities. The next step is to be sure the sensor is reading correctly by measuring the pressure yourself with a separate gauge. If it isn't correct then check for massive leaks (you've already checked that) and then look into the oil pump. Before you go replacing a pump, consider dropping the pan to be sure sludge isn't blocking the pickup.
The last possibility is a blocked oil passage somewhere. This one could really suck but is incredibly unlikely.
In any case, you'd have to be on your back at some point. Don't hesitate to take it to your competent mechanic.
- Frankie
Too thin of oil is one. This most certainly is from putting in the wrong viscosity.
The heat combined with that wrong viscosity oil thinning it out enough that your oil pump couldn't put out the correct pressure.
I don't know why people are dwelling on the leak. Unless that leak caused either a low oil condition (it didn't) or was right at the oil pressure switch causing an incorrect reading, that leak had nothing to do with it.
You should still fix it of coarse.
Once you've made sure the correct oil is put in (new filter too) then you need to start looking at the more expensive possibilities. The next step is to be sure the sensor is reading correctly by measuring the pressure yourself with a separate gauge. If it isn't correct then check for massive leaks (you've already checked that) and then look into the oil pump. Before you go replacing a pump, consider dropping the pan to be sure sludge isn't blocking the pickup.
The last possibility is a blocked oil passage somewhere. This one could really suck but is incredibly unlikely.
In any case, you'd have to be on your back at some point. Don't hesitate to take it to your competent mechanic.
- Frankie
07-18-2010, 06:56 PM
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Yes, the next step is to go to the mechanic. Now that the car can at least be drive without the red low oil pressure warning indicator, I can drive there tomorrow.
I reached for the oil pressure switch that is by the oil filter. That thing is really going to be a PITA to remove. I did confirm that the wires going to the switch are not damaged. I did that by feel alone as the switch is not visible without laying flat on my back (which, as mentioned, I cannot do).
I used a Mann W 930/21 oil filter, and M1 5W40
I reached for the oil pressure switch that is by the oil filter. That thing is really going to be a PITA to remove. I did confirm that the wires going to the switch are not damaged. I did that by feel alone as the switch is not visible without laying flat on my back (which, as mentioned, I cannot do).
I used a Mann W 930/21 oil filter, and M1 5W40
