acarney

I kinda followed your directions.... Let the shaming begin.

I did it after the valve covers were back on (I don't know, just kinda made me nervous with those off, especially the idea of having both sides off at once, so I did each side one at a time from break down, replace seals, to button up before moving onto the next).

I did rotate the engine and when check with the cam lock bar to make sure it slide on, which it did with just a tiny tiny wiggle, not even really turning, just applying a little pressure while I slide the other side into its spot. Then took that off and rotated a couple more time and put it back on.

The car did idle up to operating temp for the oil and while that sound got a little better (as heard in the second video) it still sounded like a diesel. I haven't changed the oil yet because there was only about 1500 miles on the previous stuff and I wanted to be able to get the oil up to temp when I drained it instead of oil that had been sitting in a cold engine for two weeks in temps around 30F. I'll buy some new oil tonight after work so I can change it tonight/early tomorrow. Do we need special filters for these cars or should I be able to find a good one at AutoZone or Fred Meyer / Walmart?

Also, safe to remove the oil filter with a strap wrench? I don't have the fancy wide wrench that ECS and others sell and not sure if I can find that local...

I was thinking to be safe I would break it down to the point that I could pull both valve covers off again and timing belt off so I could redo your steps while being able to look at the cams, would that be your suggestion?

On the plus side all seals do seem to be holding, no oil leaks anywhere or coolant leaks. (Speaking of coolant, is there any safe lubricant to apply around the upper and lower radiator connection to help with how much force is required to secure / remove those hoses? I don't like how much I have to fight with it over and over again while doing the flushes...)

acarney

Oh I know. The whole reason why I decided to try to do this job on my own was because the price the dealer quoted me was going to make it really hard on me... I've now just about spent that much anyway so spending more is really hard right now. I figure I will get that but after I save up a bit more and recover from this big job.

(Yes I totally replaced far more then the dealer was going to do, yes I'm way happier too, but money is still money and I didn't really have $2k to spend right now when $6k tuition was due, lol)

tester123

Its understandable that you were nervous etc. and didn't want to deviate. But those instructions IIRC, are from the manual and they worked for me. That's why I so sure of it. In any event, I don't think you are in any deep trouble from the looks/sounds of it.
Well, I just hope you won't be giving a shower to your future child the same way!
They are valve covers, nothing to worry about. You can even start the engine with them open (apart from oil squirting all over, nothing will go wrong for all mechanical purposes) -not that I am suggesting you to, but you get the point.

I started on one side like you but didn't put the covers back on until I was sure of timing. What I did was to put only the first, center and last bearing caps on each cam while re-assembly and checked timing as I described *like 50 times now* (that number will keep going up x10 every time) .
That's normal. It tends to catch at the lip and needs a wiggle. This tight spec is the reason why I strongly suggest never to improvise when it comes to timing. Sure you can do without it but you are taking an expen$$$$$ive chance. Ok, you said you had to "rotate" the engine, does this mean that your crank-lock pin wasn't in during this time? If so, make note that this is again playing with timing and not advised!

The way to do this is simple. Lock the crank, lock the cams with bar, slide the belt on making sure no slack on one side, release tensioner on the other side. On 4.2 this is how it's done. It can't be much different on 2.7. [/quote]
And it will, for a bit. Check oil level! If you think timing is right, I wouldn't worry about this sound. Re-read my previous post. Let it idle for a good time until fans kick in etc. Shut it off, do it again, after operating temp, rev it slightly; this force oil in... and eventually, that noise goes away completely. I always wondered why it makes the sound and the theory I can come up with is that there might be an air pocket in tensioner after removing etc., and over time, oil gets filled and no sound after that. If I started my car after 4 days or so, it might make it for couple seconds and stops. Normal day-to-day, it doesn't make any of that popping noise.

NOT a good idea to get cheap filters (including engine air filter - maf gets messed up). If filters are too expensive, may I suggest you to sell your car and get a Geo Metro -they even take brown bags for filters... Just go and buy filters from dealer. Oil - Walmart has lowest price on Mobil One synthetic IIRC. Make sure you buy right weight oil as specified in manual.
I use large adjustable pliers if it doesn't move. Most times, I only hand-tighten the filter (as much as my pop-eye arm can) and haven't had any trouble... no need for special tools... improvise.
If you are having second thoughts about this marriage between crank and cams, Yeah, open the valve covers and turn the crank manually like I described and follow those steps. This way you don't have to remove everything but still can verify if the timing is right. Remember, when VCs go back, clean surfaces again.
Lubricant? I just used WD40 or Silicone lubricant spray -whatever handy; Nothing special required.

acarney

And it will, for a bit. Check oil level! If you think timing is right, I wouldn't worry about this sound. Re-read my previous post. Let it idle for a good time until fans kick in etc. Shut it off, do it again, after operating temp, rev it slightly; this force oil in... and eventually, that noise goes away completely. I always wondered why it makes the sound and the theory I can come up with is that there might be an air pocket in tensioner after removing etc., and over time, oil gets filled and no sound after that. If I started my car after 4 days or so, it might make it for couple seconds and stops. Normal day-to-day, it doesn't make any of that popping noise.


NOT a good idea to get cheap filters (including engine air filter - maf gets messed up). If filters are too expensive, may I suggest you to sell your car and get a Geo Metro -they even take brown bags for filters... Just go and buy filters from dealer. Oil - Walmart has lowest price on Mobil One synthetic IIRC. Make sure you buy right weight oil as specified in manual.

I use large adjustable pliers if it doesn't move. Most times, I only hand-tighten the filter (as much as my pop-eye arm can) and haven't had any trouble... no need for special tools... improvise.

If you are having second thoughts about this marriage between crank and cams, Yeah, open the valve covers and turn the crank manually like I described and follow those steps. This way you don't have to remove everything but still can verify if the timing is right. Remember, when VCs go back, clean surfaces again.

Lubricant? I just used WD40 or Silicone lubricant spray -whatever handy; Nothing special required.[/QUOTE]

I never rotated the engine without the timing belt on. It was either crank lock pin in, or belt on.

I only mentioned the special filter because I was trying to figure out if I could source on local so I could do the oil change tonight or tomorrow. I of course will spend the extra bucks for quality. Just the damn dealer isn't open on weekends and I kinda didn't want to waste Sunday not doing any work when it's one of the few days I have a big chunk of hours to spend on it. Was hoping I could find a Mann filter but neither "big" auto parts stores here carry them... Of course.

Engine ran at idle for about 30 minutes and there was for sure the sound still (heard in the second video) and I have a check engine light. Could it still just be that the oil hasn't reached the tensioner? I'm worried the check engine light means it has to slightly be out of time or that the tensioner isn't doing it's job and the chain is hitting the valve cover. But I haven't got it off jack stands yet.

I feel pretty sure of timing. It was smooth when turning it by hand once the belt was on. The drivers side sounds beautiful. Oil level looks good...

acarney

Also, does anyone know the part number / size for the 5mm (I think, maybe 6mm) hex bolts for securing the intake manifold. When double checking the torque of them I noticed two of the bolts looks like they were kinda getting the heads stripped out and I want to go ahead and replace those before they get real tight from age / gunk so I don't have issues in the future if I had to remove them...

tester123

Just so you know, I was joking around in my last post if you didn't catch the sarcasm...

Anyway, from what you said last, it sounds like the timing is good. That popping will should go away. If it doesn't after driving around for few miles, then I'd pay more attention.

acarney

No, I could tell you were joking with a lot of it. Trust me, I like that you can talk to me like I'm a child and really break down all the steps into super simple things WITHOUT making me feel like crap, lol.

Anyway, it's the check engine light that is throwing me for a loop. I'll fire it up and let it idle up to temp again right now and see how it sounds. Then maybe tomorrow morning give it a drive around the block a couple times.

More info to follow...

SloopJohnB@mac.com

Well, ok. But it sounds like a leased Corolla or Mazda3 would make more sense. Champagne tastes on a beer budget. But I'm sure you've heard this before.

acarney

Oh, now that hurt, lol.

Ran her for 40 min, got the oil up to about 200F and still had the sound a little, but far less. Only at idle too. Reving from idle to about 1800 rpm sounded a little "deeper" or more throaty above that sounds totally normal. Not sure if it's being inside the garage that's making it sound "off" or if that's a vacuum leak or intake manifold torque issue still. I'll double check that again tomorrow. During the whole 40 min no CEL and I shut it off and started it twice more without a CEL before draining the water (which is almost clear now) before calling it a night.

Going to button it up tomorrow and fill it with G13. If I don't get a CEL after driving it easy tomorrow for a bit then I'm calling it good for awhile. Top of my list is to get a Ross-Tech so I can see the timing and any codes. But it'll take a couple weeks at least. If I still have this annoying "clanking/popping" after a couple days I'll plan to pull it apart again over spring break and replace the chain tensioner (and new half moon and chain tensioner seals) to try and get rid of that sound.

I'll also check to make sure that damn combi valve is tight enough. I lessened the 3 bolts below the actual valve bit, I'm pretty sure that's just a support arm and doesn't have any gasket between it or anything but I'll make sure that's all tight.

If timing was off just enough to mess up how it sounds, wouldn't that throw a check engine light within 40 minutes of running? When I get it up to about 2,000 rpm it sounds so smooth and crisp and revving above that sounds great too. Wouldn't timing issues, even slightly off make it sound rough/bad at all rpms, not just idle?

tester123

"Generally speaking", bad timing tends to induce a bit of vibration when engine running... may not always. I never had timing issue on Audi so, can't say for sure on this car. But a Honda (ages ago, my experimental "guinea pig") would not run right and had med-violent seizures due to bad timing.

It's really difficult to diagnose without proper tools. And, for these cars, a VAG-COM is the basic but, much needed tool to tap into the "brains". If you have CEL, AutoZone etc., can do a free diagnostic and tell you what codes are present (not sure if they are still doing it) but won't explain more than that.

So, you should get that and technically, it should work on any OBD car... (exact specs can be found on Ross-Tech website). Don't get those cheap chinese versions or other variants, more trouble than worth.