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3.2 Chains. Waste of a good Sunday.

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Old 03-30-2014, 02:14 PM   #1
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Default 3.2 Chains. Waste of a good Sunday.

Anyone been in this far? Tips for changing chains and resetting timing?

Need to replace a few bank one valves too....oddly, it's bent intake valves.

(Not my car BTW. Doing a favor for a friend.)

Click the image to open in full size.
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1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:17 PM   #2
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Wider shot showing the fancy trans bracket I welded up for the trans jack.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2003 S8 (Q Ship)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1999 BMW M Coupe (clownshoe)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Driver4 View Post
Wider shot showing the fancy trans bracket I welded up for the trans jack.

Click the image to open in full size.
How did you flip the car upside down? Lol
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:37 PM   #4
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It's levitating. ;-)
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Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2003 S8 (Q Ship)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1999 BMW M Coupe (clownshoe)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:24 PM   #5
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The dealer has my 4.2 for the chains right now. I am hoping that it is only the guides or the tensioners. I am sure the bill is going to be large. Just hoping that the chains are ok.
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RIP - 2005 A6 4.2 - (February 2005 - August 2014) (142,000 miles)

C6 TSB Library link (Thanks to Dr. Cold for his help in setting this up) http://uberlame.com/a6_tsb/
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:57 PM   #6
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What was the problem the owner was having, and how many miles on it?
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:01 PM   #7
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I'm going to do all the chains and guides. Once you get this far, you may as well.

Car was noisy and ran poorly. Bank one cams were in time with each other, but out of time with everything else. Still need to pull the bank one head. Cylinder 1 fails leakdown.
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Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2003 S8 (Q Ship)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1999 BMW M Coupe (clownshoe)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:03 PM   #8
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Did you identify any failed parts in the chain guides or tensioners?
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:10 PM   #9
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Nothing obvious yet. The only thing I see is that the main chain tensioner piston retracts very easily. I need to get the oil pump chain off first, but my Bentley PC crashed and I'm not digging deeper without support.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate Bentley Publishers? They tell you that you should only install on PC's that are stable so you don't risk content loss...but the newest operating system they support goes end of life in a week. Fan-f'ing-tastic.
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Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2003 S8 (Q Ship)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1999 BMW M Coupe (clownshoe)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGary View Post
The dealer has my 4.2 for the chains right now. I am hoping that it is only the guides or the tensioners. I am sure the bill is going to be large. Just hoping that the chains are ok.

Kevin, when I see that your car also has the problem, I absolutely know that this is a failure in design, not maintenance.

What were the symptoms that made you take it to the dealer?

I finally have all the parts I need to complete mine, and was working on it this weekend. I have about $2000 in parts, including head gaskets, plus my labor. Sent the heads out for resurfacing, etc, new valve seals.

I'm hoping I'm good for another 175k miles, though.

Some of the parts have been redesigned or improved.

For what its worth, although I opted to replace the two upper chains, there was no evidence of stretching. It is the guides which fail, and sometimes the cam adjuster mechanisms.

Based on my non-scientific observation, the passenger side cam chain tensioner seems to be a weak point, as it sheds its plastic, ejecting it into the chain cog. I've noted at least 5 failures on various forums of that.

There will also be a cracked/broken lower guide, but that, I think, only causes the cold start 'rattle'.

Next is the adjusters, which have a locking pin, and the hole that the locking pin goes into gets elongated and then fails to lock.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Driver4 View Post
Anyone been in this far? Tips for changing chains and resetting timing?

Need to replace a few bank one valves too....oddly, it's bent intake valves.

(Not my car BTW. Doing a favor for a friend.)

Click the image to open in full size.
Back on topic (sorry about the diversion onto Kevin's 4.2)...

You will want the proper timing tools. I think there are a few on the forums here or on Audizine that might have them, and be willing to loan/rent them to you.

Given that you have to pull the head(s), would (in hindsight) it have been easier to drop the engine and trans together? I know on my 4.2, there's no option to drop just the transmission. It's shoehorned in there too tightly.

Also, one thought: If the cam timing is off or adjusters have gone bad, you might be losing compression due to that, rather than bent valves. If you haven't already, I'd suggest getting a borescope to get a good look.

Last edited by ProtoFly; 03-31-2014 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:35 AM   #12
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Back on topic (sorry about the diversion onto Kevin's 4.2)...

You will want the proper timing tools. I think there are a few on the forums here or on Audizine that might have them, and be willing to loan/rent them to you.

Given that you have to pull the head(s), would (in hindsight) it have been easier to drop the engine and trans together? I know on my 4.2, there's no option to drop just the transmission. It's shoehorned in there too tightly.

Also, one thought: If the cam timing is off or adjusters have gone bad, you might be losing compression due to that, rather than bent valves. If you haven't already, I'd suggest getting a borescope to get a good look.
Thanks for the insights. Here's more info:

On the tools, I have the cam lockers and will buy the crank pin.

On the extraction, the trans removal was pretty darn easy. Lots of room to work as the tunnel was clearly designed for the V8. Pulling the engine would be more work, and it would be difficult to figure out how to support the trans. I think this is the best way.

On the valves, everyone but #1 passes leak down, but all pistons on bank one have a "kiss" mark on the pistons from intake valve contact. I may replace all 6 intakes on the bank just to be sure I don't have future issues.

When I got this, the timing cover on the rear of bank one was clean and had new RTV. When I removed the cover, I found the bank one cams were in time with each other, but not with the crank or bank two. All was well on bank two; cams were in time with each other and the crank. I reset bank one to the correct timing and did the leak down test.

There is a lot so slop in the main chain. When you rotate the engine backwards, the crank turns at least 15 degrees before the cams move. Because of this, and because it really wasn't possible to figure which chain jumped on the bank one intermediate shaft, I pulled the whole thing apart.
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Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2003 S8 (Q Ship)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1999 BMW M Coupe (clownshoe)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:13 PM   #13
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WOW. Would it not have been easier to remove the engine from the car? These are the things that keep me in my old C5 A6... Till it won't run any more. Or there's nothing left of the body. Whichever comes first.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:34 PM   #14
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Bentley says to pull the trans, Kris.
I was a skeptic, but now I'm a believer. It was actually much easier than I thought...and waaay easier than the C5.
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Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2003 S8 (Q Ship)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1999 BMW M Coupe (clownshoe)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:25 PM   #15
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Nothing obvious yet. The only thing I see is that the main chain tensioner piston retracts very easily. I need to get the oil pump chain off first, but my Bentley PC crashed and I'm not digging deeper without support.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate Bentley Publishers? They tell you that you should only install on PC's that are stable so you don't risk content loss...but the newest operating system they support goes end of life in a week. Fan-f'ing-tastic.
And it hangs even on that old OS. My PC was stable until I installed Bentley and that stupid IBahn. I should have bought the books.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:21 PM   #16
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And it hangs even on that old OS. My PC was stable until I installed Bentley and that stupid IBahn. I should have bought the books.
Don't worry about that. Their top priority is protecting themselves from you. Your user experience is secondary.
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Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

2005 A6 Sedan Q 3.2 (wife's whip)
2003 S8 (Q Ship)
2000 A4 Avant Q 2.8 (daily driver)
1999 BMW M Coupe (clownshoe)
1980 VW Scirocco (mid-life crisis car)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (revolutionary sports car)
1999 Mazda Miata SSB (track beotch, no plate)
2003 GMC Yukon Denali XL (the anti-earth)
2004 Dodge Dakota (hey, at least it's stick and 4x4)
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Driver4 View Post
Nothing obvious yet. The only thing I see is that the main chain tensioner piston retracts very easily. I need to get the oil pump chain off first, but my Bentley PC crashed and I'm not digging deeper without support.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate Bentley Publishers? They tell you that you should only install on PC's that are stable so you don't risk content loss...but the newest operating system they support goes end of life in a week. Fan-f'ing-tastic.
2nd that smh
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:19 PM   #18
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Cool. I guess it's six of one, half dozen the other in this case.. =)
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:19 PM
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