Tensioners....now cam position problem.
10-18-2016, 10:37 AM
#1
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Tensioners....now cam position problem.
I've got a 2006 A6 3.2L (wife's car actually). A few weeks ago the passenger timing chain tensioner started making noise. She drove it home and then I started it once to hear the noise. I scanned it with my OBD2 tool (I don't have a vagcom) and got a p0366, which is cam position bank 1. Using the info from a thread on here and a few others, I replaced both tensioners. It had jumped time, but only a tooth or two on the passenger side exhaust cam. So I got it back in time using the cam locking bars and crank pin that came with the timing tool set I bought. At initial startup I had alot of chain clatter. And it ran rough for the short time I had it running. I scanned again and got the same cam position fault as before. After more research I found that I didn't correctly pretension the chains when I put everything back together. When I started it the slack in the chain allowed it to jump time again. It was the passenger exhaust cam again, out of time about the same amount as it originally was. I loosened the cam sprocket bolts on that side and got everything lined back up and then correctly pretensioned the chain. Put it all back together and gave it another try. This time no chain noise and it started up fine, but shortly it went to a rough idle again. Scan showed same p0366 code as well as a misfire on cyl. 1. I took it all back apart assuming that it must've jumped time again, but it had not. The cam locking bars and crank pin went right in place, so the physical timing is good. I took this opportunity to do a compression test, because at this point I still didn't even know if I had bent valves. The passenger side cylinders were all around 170 (with cold engine) drivers side around 150. I think this tells me that I don't have any bent valves. But confused about why it's idling poorly and throwing codes still. When I put it back together I swapped the coil and plug from cyl 1 and cyl 3, to see if the misfire moves there. I also swapped both cam position sensors from passenger to drive side, to see if the cam position error code jumped to the other side. This time when I started it up, it started fine again (no chain noise) and seemed to be running well at first. Once again after 30 seconds or a minute it started with the rough idle again. Eventually got service tone and got the same p0366 code. I ran it a couple more times for a total of prolly 5 or 6 minutes then rescanned. I picked up an additional code of p0346, which is cam position sensor range circuit a (bank 2). That one is the drivers side. Now I'm just sorta confused about what the problem is. A mechanic buddy has suggested that I get it all back together and actually take it for a drive (as opposed to just a couple minutes running in the garage) to give the car a chance to sort of level itself out. I may try this after removing the valve covers to verify that the timing is still good.
Ok, all that, just to ask....
Anybody got any additional ideas or advice?
Ok, all that, just to ask....
Anybody got any additional ideas or advice?
11-05-2016, 06:54 AM
#2
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Default Now I have a vag com, and still confused.
So I bought a vag com to help diagnose my problem. I took three of the four valve adjusters out and electroshocked them to make sure they are moving. I put them back in different spots. I didnt pull the drivers side exhaust one, cause my codes were primarily on the passenger side cams. I took the car out and drove it several times (as my mechanic buddy suggested) and the codes I'm getting from the vag com are now only for the Drivers side cams. The car starts and runs fine, but just feels underpowered compared to usual. The vag com gave me this:
3.0 ° KW Phase Position Intke Bank 1
16.9°KW on intake bank 2
1.9° KW on exhaust bank 1
15.8° KW on exhaust bank 2
When I saw this, I thought that it looks like it jumped time on the driver side, both cams. I tore down last night and the timing does not appear to be off. The cam locks and crank pin went in. I don't understand how the vag com shows the cams being off by that much, but it still seems to be physically, in time. I guess I'm assuming that 15 or 16 degrees is a huge amount and should correlate to a physical difference in timing. Could the valve adjusters being faulty create this amount of offset in the phase postions? Also, it seems too coincidental that valve adjuster go bad at the same time as the original timing chain tensioner problem. I'm confused at this point. I originally pre tensioned the timing chain incorrectly after tensioner install. I had to redo the passenger side b/c it jumped time on first startup after that, but I have not done anything to the drivers side (as far as loosening cam hubs and and pre tensioning the chains correctly) b/c I thought that all the slack must have gotten taken up after the car built oil pressure on that first start up. And, at the time, I had no cam codes for the Drivers side. I wonder if that is worth doing? Could the chain not being tight enough between the two cam hubs create this kind of offset?
If I wasn't bald, I'd prolly start pulling my hair out right about now.
So I bought a vag com to help diagnose my problem. I took three of the four valve adjusters out and electroshocked them to make sure they are moving. I put them back in different spots. I didnt pull the drivers side exhaust one, cause my codes were primarily on the passenger side cams. I took the car out and drove it several times (as my mechanic buddy suggested) and the codes I'm getting from the vag com are now only for the Drivers side cams. The car starts and runs fine, but just feels underpowered compared to usual. The vag com gave me this:
3.0 ° KW Phase Position Intke Bank 1
16.9°KW on intake bank 2
1.9° KW on exhaust bank 1
15.8° KW on exhaust bank 2
When I saw this, I thought that it looks like it jumped time on the driver side, both cams. I tore down last night and the timing does not appear to be off. The cam locks and crank pin went in. I don't understand how the vag com shows the cams being off by that much, but it still seems to be physically, in time. I guess I'm assuming that 15 or 16 degrees is a huge amount and should correlate to a physical difference in timing. Could the valve adjusters being faulty create this amount of offset in the phase postions? Also, it seems too coincidental that valve adjuster go bad at the same time as the original timing chain tensioner problem. I'm confused at this point. I originally pre tensioned the timing chain incorrectly after tensioner install. I had to redo the passenger side b/c it jumped time on first startup after that, but I have not done anything to the drivers side (as far as loosening cam hubs and and pre tensioning the chains correctly) b/c I thought that all the slack must have gotten taken up after the car built oil pressure on that first start up. And, at the time, I had no cam codes for the Drivers side. I wonder if that is worth doing? Could the chain not being tight enough between the two cam hubs create this kind of offset?
If I wasn't bald, I'd prolly start pulling my hair out right about now.
11-05-2016, 04:22 PM
#3
Default Now I have a vag com, and still confused.
So I bought a vag com to help diagnose my problem. I took three of the four valve adjusters out and electroshocked them to make sure they are moving. I put them back in different spots. I didnt pull the drivers side exhaust one, cause my codes were primarily on the passenger side cams. I took the car out and drove it several times (as my mechanic buddy suggested) and the codes I'm getting from the vag com are now only for the Drivers side cams. The car starts and runs fine, but just feels underpowered compared to usual. The vag com gave me this:
3.0 ° KW Phase Position Intke Bank 1
16.9°KW on intake bank 2
1.9° KW on exhaust bank 1
15.8° KW on exhaust bank 2
When I saw this, I thought that it looks like it jumped time on the driver side, both cams. I tore down last night and the timing does not appear to be off. The cam locks and crank pin went in. I don't understand how the vag com shows the cams being off by that much, but it still seems to be physically, in time. I guess I'm assuming that 15 or 16 degrees is a huge amount and should correlate to a physical difference in timing. Could the valve adjusters being faulty create this amount of offset in the phase postions? Also, it seems too coincidental that valve adjuster go bad at the same time as the original timing chain tensioner problem. I'm confused at this point. I originally pre tensioned the timing chain incorrectly after tensioner install. I had to redo the passenger side b/c it jumped time on first startup after that, but I have not done anything to the drivers side (as far as loosening cam hubs and and pre tensioning the chains correctly) b/c I thought that all the slack must have gotten taken up after the car built oil pressure on that first start up. And, at the time, I had no cam codes for the Drivers side. I wonder if that is worth doing? Could the chain not being tight enough between the two cam hubs create this kind of offset?
If I wasn't bald, I'd prolly start pulling my hair out right about now.
So I bought a vag com to help diagnose my problem. I took three of the four valve adjusters out and electroshocked them to make sure they are moving. I put them back in different spots. I didnt pull the drivers side exhaust one, cause my codes were primarily on the passenger side cams. I took the car out and drove it several times (as my mechanic buddy suggested) and the codes I'm getting from the vag com are now only for the Drivers side cams. The car starts and runs fine, but just feels underpowered compared to usual. The vag com gave me this:
3.0 ° KW Phase Position Intke Bank 1
16.9°KW on intake bank 2
1.9° KW on exhaust bank 1
15.8° KW on exhaust bank 2
When I saw this, I thought that it looks like it jumped time on the driver side, both cams. I tore down last night and the timing does not appear to be off. The cam locks and crank pin went in. I don't understand how the vag com shows the cams being off by that much, but it still seems to be physically, in time. I guess I'm assuming that 15 or 16 degrees is a huge amount and should correlate to a physical difference in timing. Could the valve adjusters being faulty create this amount of offset in the phase postions? Also, it seems too coincidental that valve adjuster go bad at the same time as the original timing chain tensioner problem. I'm confused at this point. I originally pre tensioned the timing chain incorrectly after tensioner install. I had to redo the passenger side b/c it jumped time on first startup after that, but I have not done anything to the drivers side (as far as loosening cam hubs and and pre tensioning the chains correctly) b/c I thought that all the slack must have gotten taken up after the car built oil pressure on that first start up. And, at the time, I had no cam codes for the Drivers side. I wonder if that is worth doing? Could the chain not being tight enough between the two cam hubs create this kind of offset?
If I wasn't bald, I'd prolly start pulling my hair out right about now.
11-05-2016, 07:30 PM
#4
I've got a 2006 A6 3.2L (wife's car actually). A few weeks ago the passenger timing chain tensioner started making noise. She drove it home and then I started it once to hear the noise. I scanned it with my OBD2 tool (I don't have a vagcom) and got a p0366, which is cam position bank 1. Using the info from a thread on here and a few others, I replaced both tensioners. It had jumped time, but only a tooth or two on the passenger side exhaust cam. So I got it back in time using the cam locking bars and crank pin that came with the timing tool set I bought. At initial startup I had alot of chain clatter. And it ran rough for the short time I had it running. I scanned again and got the same cam position fault as before. After more research I found that I didn't correctly pretension the chains when I put everything back together. When I started it the slack in the chain allowed it to jump time again. It was the passenger exhaust cam again, out of time about the same amount as it originally was. I loosened the cam sprocket bolts on that side and got everything lined back up and then correctly pretensioned the chain. Put it all back together and gave it another try. This time no chain noise and it started up fine, but shortly it went to a rough idle again. Scan showed same p0366 code as well as a misfire on cyl. 1. I took it all back apart assuming that it must've jumped time again, but it had not. The cam locking bars and crank pin went right in place, so the physical timing is good. I took this opportunity to do a compression test, because at this point I still didn't even know if I had bent valves. The passenger side cylinders were all around 170 (with cold engine) drivers side around 150. I think this tells me that I don't have any bent valves. But confused about why it's idling poorly and throwing codes still. When I put it back together I swapped the coil and plug from cyl 1 and cyl 3, to see if the misfire moves there. I also swapped both cam position sensors from passenger to drive side, to see if the cam position error code jumped to the other side. This time when I started it up, it started fine again (no chain noise) and seemed to be running well at first. Once again after 30 seconds or a minute it started with the rough idle again. Eventually got service tone and got the same p0366 code. I ran it a couple more times for a total of prolly 5 or 6 minutes then rescanned. I picked up an additional code of p0346, which is cam position sensor range circuit a (bank 2). That one is the drivers side. Now I'm just sorta confused about what the problem is. A mechanic buddy has suggested that I get it all back together and actually take it for a drive (as opposed to just a couple minutes running in the garage) to give the car a chance to sort of level itself out. I may try this after removing the valve covers to verify that the timing is still good.
Ok, all that, just to ask....
Anybody got any additional ideas or advice?
Ok, all that, just to ask....
Anybody got any additional ideas or advice?
11-06-2016, 05:54 AM
#5
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Mkongsiri: I have cleared the codes and I don't have any other cam or engine related codes right now.
Beep-beep: The original code was bank one, this was after tensioner failed and before I did anything to the car. After replacing tensioners (incorrectly pretensioning them), I got bank 1 cam code again. After correcting timing and correctly pretensioning bank 1 cams I still got bank 1 code and also a bank 2 (just intake cam) at that point. Then after swapping cam position sensors and valve adj. Solenoids (3 of the 4) and actually driving the car (as opposed to short runs at idle) I'm getting only bank 2 codes and the degrees of offset from vag com. I have it torn down with the cam locks and crank pin in right now, and my plan was to remove drivers side timing cover and loosen cam hub bolts and pretension the chain correctly (as this side has not been touched since original repair), but now I'm thinking maybe I should swap the valve adjusters (all 4) from side to side without changing anything else to see what codes I get. If the codes stay the same, I guess I know for sure that they are not the problem.
Beep-beep: The original code was bank one, this was after tensioner failed and before I did anything to the car. After replacing tensioners (incorrectly pretensioning them), I got bank 1 cam code again. After correcting timing and correctly pretensioning bank 1 cams I still got bank 1 code and also a bank 2 (just intake cam) at that point. Then after swapping cam position sensors and valve adj. Solenoids (3 of the 4) and actually driving the car (as opposed to short runs at idle) I'm getting only bank 2 codes and the degrees of offset from vag com. I have it torn down with the cam locks and crank pin in right now, and my plan was to remove drivers side timing cover and loosen cam hub bolts and pretension the chain correctly (as this side has not been touched since original repair), but now I'm thinking maybe I should swap the valve adjusters (all 4) from side to side without changing anything else to see what codes I get. If the codes stay the same, I guess I know for sure that they are not the problem.
03-05-2018, 04:24 AM
#7
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Yes, shortly after this, I discovered 1 of the valve adjuster solenoids had a screen broken and jamming it (keeping it from working). Fixing it helped a little. Ultimately I reset timing on drivers side, by loosening the cam hub bolts and finitely moving the cams (with channel locks) until there was absolutely no tension on the bolts for the timing blocks as I was tightening them. I had had them in and out several times and the bolts would always have just the slightest bit of resistance as I screwed them in. It was a really small amount that I moved them (the timing was prolly out by about a quarter of a tooth), but that was it. I put it all back together and the the car has been perfect ever since. This thing kicked my but for a while tho. Lol
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03-06-2018, 04:41 PM
#8
Yes, shortly after this, I discovered 1 of the valve adjuster solenoids had a screen broken and jamming it (keeping it from working). Fixing it helped a little. Ultimately I reset timing on drivers side, by loosening the cam hub bolts and finitely moving the cams (with channel locks) until there was absolutely no tension on the bolts for the timing blocks as I was tightening them. I had had them in and out several times and the bolts would always have just the slightest bit of resistance as I screwed them in. It was a really small amount that I moved them (the timing was prolly out by about a quarter of a tooth), but that was it. I put it all back together and the the car has been perfect ever since. This thing kicked my but for a while tho. Lol
11-24-2019, 09:14 PM
#9
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Yes, shortly after this, I discovered 1 of the valve adjuster solenoids had a screen broken and jamming it (keeping it from working). Fixing it helped a little. Ultimately I reset timing on drivers side, by loosening the cam hub bolts and finitely moving the cams (with channel locks) until there was absolutely no tension on the bolts for the timing blocks as I was tightening them. I had had them in and out several times and the bolts would always have just the slightest bit of resistance as I screwed them in. It was a really small amount that I moved them (the timing was prolly out by about a quarter of a tooth), but that was it. I put it all back together and the the car has been perfect ever since. This thing kicked my but for a while tho. Lol
im having the EXACT same problem. I actually pulled my motor out and replaced up and lower tensioners. Got the p0366 and p0364 code and rough idle. I remember pre tensioning the chains when the motor was on the stand. I cleaned all 4 cam solenoids. I also had a code for misfire on cyl 1 so I swapped coils and cleared codes with my non vag scanner. Misfire code is gone for now but it idles rough. No chain noises just poor idle. I’m wondering if I should try to “ pre tension” these chains again. I have the cam lock tool. Did you re tension both sides to fix your problem or just the 1. I’m really leaning to ripping the covers off and locking it down to see. I’m confused as to which bolts you said had play? The cam adjuster bolts? On the back of the cam?
11-25-2019, 03:55 AM
#10
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
im having the EXACT same problem. I actually pulled my motor out and replaced up and lower tensioners. Got the p0366 and p0364 code and rough idle. I remember pre tensioning the chains when the motor was on the stand. I cleaned all 4 cam solenoids. I also had a code for misfire on cyl 1 so I swapped coils and cleared codes with my non vag scanner. Misfire code is gone for now but it idles rough. No chain noises just poor idle. I’m wondering if I should try to “ pre tension” these chains again. I have the cam lock tool. Did you re tension both sides to fix your problem or just the 1. I’m really leaning to ripping the covers off and locking it down to see. I’m confused as to which bolts you said had play? The cam adjuster bolts? On the back of the cam?