new User: D2 A8 purchasing advice
01-19-2016, 11:54 AM
#1
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
new User: D2 A8 purchasing advice
Hey all,
new member here, signed up specifically to get some advice looking at a 2001 D2 A8L to purchase as a commuter/daily car.
It's a 2001, A8L that seems to be fully packaged besides the 18" wheel option.
118k miles.
here is a link to the car: 2001 Audi A8 L Quattro with Navigation
Currently is owned by the second owner, first owned it new to 2011/67k miles. The first owner kept meticulous details of every maintenance item done including some gas receipts even, and seemed to get most work done at the Audi dealer (Huntington NY)
The second owner, 2011-(67k-118k) also had a lot of maintenance work done but went to indy shops in his area, including Edge motorsports in West Haverstaw NY, an Audi/VW specialist. Used it to commute to train and for family road trips to visit family upstate...
So, on paper it appears to be a well maintained car that the original owner enjoyed driving and maintaining. I went to look at the car and he showed me the receipts, all parts OEM Audi, etc.
Has had basically everything done that you could imagine should be done to a d2 A8L with this mileage, including in the last year or so:
New tires continental all season
New battery
brake job (including rotors)
New Fuel pump and all filters
Timing Belt, Water pump, Thermostat, Damper, Serpentine Belt were done.
Before this, many other maintenance items were done including the trans fluid iirc, tie rods and other misc suspension parts, general wear and tear items.
That begin said, we went and looked at the car. The interior was pretty clean with no tears but obviously sat-in seats.
Exterior paint needs some TLC but only one "ding" on the drivers door - otherwise it is simply parking scratches on bumpers, a couple pieces of trim loose, and some key/ring marks on the pain near trunk emblem.
We drove it, it drove straight and true, no hesitation at start up or under power, idled fine, brakes work fine, steering seems fine, no noises or squeaks or rattles on highway or around town.
That being said, here is the bad:
transmission seems to shift fine on highway and slower speeds but coming to stop it seems the 2-1 downshift is a bit rough (say you are rolling then come to a complete stop a bit short, the shift is a bit rough)
He didn't mention this on the phone or before we drove 30 min to see the car, but what appears to be the passenger side fan in the front of the motor is a bit noisy when the car is idling, as if the bolt holding it in is loose or the bearing on it is shot.
Also, the valve cover on the front driver side right above the start of the headers seems to have a tiny leak - not anything dripping it seems, but just some oil deposits around the gasket in that area.
(VC gaskets were replaced already at around 60k miles)
No noticeable oil smell while driving or with heat on.
After asking about that, I asked about oil consumption, and he said that if you "change the oil at the normal intervals" there is no consumption, but if you run over those miles you will get a low oil light and it will need to be topped up.
another issue, the 'brake pad low' light comes on even though the pads are close to new. He says it is intermittent. Research shows it could be a faulty sensor.
only other apparent issue: headlamp washers do not seem to come on (but he didnt really know how to turn them on I think) and one of the four upper brake lights is out.
otherwise, the car is clean.
he had the car up for $5500, brought it down to $4995.
The book value for an excellent one seems to be about $3600. I told him $3500 because of the maintenance history despite the paint issues. He wouldn't go below $4k. I told him for $4k I want to get a PPI done to make sure there is no issue that will be apparent with a proper inspection.
That being said, what do you all think? Should I stay away from this car? Should I take the chance and simply replace the VC gaskets and check out the fan noise and pray no issues with the trans or any inner damage in motor signaled by oil consumption and VC leak?
Any help is appreciated!
new member here, signed up specifically to get some advice looking at a 2001 D2 A8L to purchase as a commuter/daily car.
It's a 2001, A8L that seems to be fully packaged besides the 18" wheel option.
118k miles.
here is a link to the car: 2001 Audi A8 L Quattro with Navigation
Currently is owned by the second owner, first owned it new to 2011/67k miles. The first owner kept meticulous details of every maintenance item done including some gas receipts even, and seemed to get most work done at the Audi dealer (Huntington NY)
The second owner, 2011-(67k-118k) also had a lot of maintenance work done but went to indy shops in his area, including Edge motorsports in West Haverstaw NY, an Audi/VW specialist. Used it to commute to train and for family road trips to visit family upstate...
So, on paper it appears to be a well maintained car that the original owner enjoyed driving and maintaining. I went to look at the car and he showed me the receipts, all parts OEM Audi, etc.
Has had basically everything done that you could imagine should be done to a d2 A8L with this mileage, including in the last year or so:
New tires continental all season
New battery
brake job (including rotors)
New Fuel pump and all filters
Timing Belt, Water pump, Thermostat, Damper, Serpentine Belt were done.
Before this, many other maintenance items were done including the trans fluid iirc, tie rods and other misc suspension parts, general wear and tear items.
That begin said, we went and looked at the car. The interior was pretty clean with no tears but obviously sat-in seats.
Exterior paint needs some TLC but only one "ding" on the drivers door - otherwise it is simply parking scratches on bumpers, a couple pieces of trim loose, and some key/ring marks on the pain near trunk emblem.
We drove it, it drove straight and true, no hesitation at start up or under power, idled fine, brakes work fine, steering seems fine, no noises or squeaks or rattles on highway or around town.
That being said, here is the bad:
transmission seems to shift fine on highway and slower speeds but coming to stop it seems the 2-1 downshift is a bit rough (say you are rolling then come to a complete stop a bit short, the shift is a bit rough)
He didn't mention this on the phone or before we drove 30 min to see the car, but what appears to be the passenger side fan in the front of the motor is a bit noisy when the car is idling, as if the bolt holding it in is loose or the bearing on it is shot.
Also, the valve cover on the front driver side right above the start of the headers seems to have a tiny leak - not anything dripping it seems, but just some oil deposits around the gasket in that area.
(VC gaskets were replaced already at around 60k miles)
No noticeable oil smell while driving or with heat on.
After asking about that, I asked about oil consumption, and he said that if you "change the oil at the normal intervals" there is no consumption, but if you run over those miles you will get a low oil light and it will need to be topped up.
another issue, the 'brake pad low' light comes on even though the pads are close to new. He says it is intermittent. Research shows it could be a faulty sensor.
only other apparent issue: headlamp washers do not seem to come on (but he didnt really know how to turn them on I think) and one of the four upper brake lights is out.
otherwise, the car is clean.
he had the car up for $5500, brought it down to $4995.
The book value for an excellent one seems to be about $3600. I told him $3500 because of the maintenance history despite the paint issues. He wouldn't go below $4k. I told him for $4k I want to get a PPI done to make sure there is no issue that will be apparent with a proper inspection.
That being said, what do you all think? Should I stay away from this car? Should I take the chance and simply replace the VC gaskets and check out the fan noise and pray no issues with the trans or any inner damage in motor signaled by oil consumption and VC leak?
Any help is appreciated!
01-19-2016, 11:56 AM
#2
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
also - forgot to mention. There is an accident on record but only shows that a police report was made, NOT that he went through insurance for anything.. I asked him and he said it was in a NYC parking garage, he scraped his front bumper side across the side of a woman's new mercedes so she called the cops... I looked at the bumper, seems original paint, and there is indeed a scratch there that would show this is possible. Doesnt seem to be any repair work in the engine bay towards the front.
I had my buddy working at Geico run the VIN and get a CCC auto check and it showed that the accident is indeed on record but ONLY as a police incident report - NOT that he went through insurance for anything....
What do you guys think?
I had my buddy working at Geico run the VIN and get a CCC auto check and it showed that the accident is indeed on record but ONLY as a police incident report - NOT that he went through insurance for anything....
What do you guys think?
01-19-2016, 06:54 PM
#3
AudiWorld Senior Member
It looks clean and well taken care of for a 15 year old car.
The positives:
The negative:
80% of these transmissions will fail by 150k miles. Every once in a while you'll hear of one making it to 200k with no issues but those stories are rare. I thought maybe if I babied my transmission it would last, but it was rebuilt last month with 115k on the clock. If the door ding is not to bad, it can be worked out. I had Audi fix two small door dings and you can 't tell they were ever there.
I love my car and wouldn't want anything else, but it's been robbing my bank account since the day I got it.
Good luck.
The positives:
- New tires continental all season
- New battery
- brake job (including rotors)
- New Fuel pump and all filters
- Timing Belt, Water pump, Thermostat, Damper, Serpentine Belt were done
The negative:
- 118k on the transmission
- Door ding
- You'll need to replace the valve cover gasket(s)
80% of these transmissions will fail by 150k miles. Every once in a while you'll hear of one making it to 200k with no issues but those stories are rare. I thought maybe if I babied my transmission it would last, but it was rebuilt last month with 115k on the clock. If the door ding is not to bad, it can be worked out. I had Audi fix two small door dings and you can 't tell they were ever there.
I love my car and wouldn't want anything else, but it's been robbing my bank account since the day I got it.
Good luck.
01-19-2016, 06:56 PM
#4
That noise could be fan clutch bearing(450$ part,cheaper to convert it to electric fan)).
Knock from 2nd to 1st could be dirty abs sensor.I have the same issue but didnt resolve it yet.
Sounds a lot of maintenance for 4k$.I would buy it.
But dont expect it to be a camry
Knock from 2nd to 1st could be dirty abs sensor.I have the same issue but didnt resolve it yet.
Sounds a lot of maintenance for 4k$.I would buy it.
But dont expect it to be a camry
01-20-2016, 02:19 AM
#5
Does the 2-1 shift feel like a thump in the back? If so that's a common issue with these transmissions and indicative that it needs attention. IIRC its related to an o-ring in the A-B clutch pack, or possibly something in the valve body - there's is lots of info on it online (search ZF 5HP24a). The rwd version (5HP24) was used in Jaguars, BMWs and Range Rovers so there are a lot of them about and spares are easy to get, albeit not cheap.
If you're a competent mechanic and have a reasonable workshop its relatively simple to do yourself. Otherwise sooner or later it's going to need a rebuild. I had a '99 which made it to 180K before it started slipping - it had done the 2-1 thump almost all it's life. As noted, that's exceptional mileage for these transmissions, but it was dead by 200K. I now have an '02 with 115K which is faultless, but I changed the o-ring anyway as preventative maintenance.
Re burning oil, my 99 had a bit of an appetite for Mobil 1 and would need a quart or two between changes. The dealer claimed this was within tolerance (0.5 litre every 700km iirc) so I never worried about it.
The brake pad warning is highly likely a bad connection in the wiring on the caliper. The connectors are in a very unpleasant environment for electrical things and often get corroded or simply broken by careless mechanics. I don't recall any Audi I've had with the pad warning that hasn't had a fault here somewhere. Worst case you have to cut the connector off and splice in a new one.
It does seem expensive for a non-sport model, especially given the potential for a trans rebuild in the future.
If you're a competent mechanic and have a reasonable workshop its relatively simple to do yourself. Otherwise sooner or later it's going to need a rebuild. I had a '99 which made it to 180K before it started slipping - it had done the 2-1 thump almost all it's life. As noted, that's exceptional mileage for these transmissions, but it was dead by 200K. I now have an '02 with 115K which is faultless, but I changed the o-ring anyway as preventative maintenance.
Re burning oil, my 99 had a bit of an appetite for Mobil 1 and would need a quart or two between changes. The dealer claimed this was within tolerance (0.5 litre every 700km iirc) so I never worried about it.
The brake pad warning is highly likely a bad connection in the wiring on the caliper. The connectors are in a very unpleasant environment for electrical things and often get corroded or simply broken by careless mechanics. I don't recall any Audi I've had with the pad warning that hasn't had a fault here somewhere. Worst case you have to cut the connector off and splice in a new one.
It does seem expensive for a non-sport model, especially given the potential for a trans rebuild in the future.
01-20-2016, 11:28 AM
#6
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It looks clean and well taken care of for a 15 year old car.
The positives:
The negative:
80% of these transmissions will fail by 150k miles. Every once in a while you'll hear of one making it to 200k with no issues but those stories are rare. I thought maybe if I babied my transmission it would last, but it was rebuilt last month with 115k on the clock. If the door ding is not to bad, it can be worked out. I had Audi fix two small door dings and you can 't tell they were ever there.
I love my car and wouldn't want anything else, but it's been robbing my bank account since the day I got it.
Good luck.
The positives:
- New tires continental all season
- New battery
- brake job (including rotors)
- New Fuel pump and all filters
- Timing Belt, Water pump, Thermostat, Damper, Serpentine Belt were done
The negative:
- 118k on the transmission
- Door ding
- You'll need to replace the valve cover gasket(s)
80% of these transmissions will fail by 150k miles. Every once in a while you'll hear of one making it to 200k with no issues but those stories are rare. I thought maybe if I babied my transmission it would last, but it was rebuilt last month with 115k on the clock. If the door ding is not to bad, it can be worked out. I had Audi fix two small door dings and you can 't tell they were ever there.
I love my car and wouldn't want anything else, but it's been robbing my bank account since the day I got it.
Good luck.
Thanks for the info. The trans felt fine besides the rough 2-1 shift rolling at 10mph then stepping ton brake. Door ding and other scrapes not too worried about as I have a friend with a paint shop.
I am indeed worried about the possibility of the trans dying on me, but truthfully it felt fine driving on highway, acceleration, downshifting, shifting at standstill, idling, etc. t was just that one downshift at slow speed. (my 09 Infiniti does the same thing, apparently it's axles needing to be lubricated on mine)
thanks for the advice
I'll have to have the fan clutch bearing checked out. if I posted a video, would you be able to tell me if that's what it was? The owner said he thought/his shop though it was the tensioner pulley, but when I went to listen it sounded like the passenger side fan...
Not expecting a camry (though she claimed "it drives like my camry but nicer") She is not into cars, but I am a "car guy"...you could say I pushed her in the direction of old german when she wanted AWD non-SUV under $5k.. I like big body german sedans
Does the 2-1 shift feel like a thump in the back? If so that's a common issue with these transmissions and indicative that it needs attention. IIRC its related to an o-ring in the A-B clutch pack, or possibly something in the valve body - there's is lots of info on it online (search ZF 5HP24a). The rwd version (5HP24) was used in Jaguars, BMWs and Range Rovers so there are a lot of them about and spares are easy to get, albeit not cheap.
If you're a competent mechanic and have a reasonable workshop its relatively simple to do yourself. Otherwise sooner or later it's going to need a rebuild. I had a '99 which made it to 180K before it started slipping - it had done the 2-1 thump almost all it's life. As noted, that's exceptional mileage for these transmissions, but it was dead by 200K. I now have an '02 with 115K which is faultless, but I changed the o-ring anyway as preventative maintenance.
Re burning oil, my 99 had a bit of an appetite for Mobil 1 and would need a quart or two between changes. The dealer claimed this was within tolerance (0.5 litre every 700km iirc) so I never worried about it.
The brake pad warning is highly likely a bad connection in the wiring on the caliper. The connectors are in a very unpleasant environment for electrical things and often get corroded or simply broken by careless mechanics. I don't recall any Audi I've had with the pad warning that hasn't had a fault here somewhere. Worst case you have to cut the connector off and splice in a new one.
It does seem expensive for a non-sport model, especially given the potential for a trans rebuild in the future.
If you're a competent mechanic and have a reasonable workshop its relatively simple to do yourself. Otherwise sooner or later it's going to need a rebuild. I had a '99 which made it to 180K before it started slipping - it had done the 2-1 thump almost all it's life. As noted, that's exceptional mileage for these transmissions, but it was dead by 200K. I now have an '02 with 115K which is faultless, but I changed the o-ring anyway as preventative maintenance.
Re burning oil, my 99 had a bit of an appetite for Mobil 1 and would need a quart or two between changes. The dealer claimed this was within tolerance (0.5 litre every 700km iirc) so I never worried about it.
The brake pad warning is highly likely a bad connection in the wiring on the caliper. The connectors are in a very unpleasant environment for electrical things and often get corroded or simply broken by careless mechanics. I don't recall any Audi I've had with the pad warning that hasn't had a fault here somewhere. Worst case you have to cut the connector off and splice in a new one.
It does seem expensive for a non-sport model, especially given the potential for a trans rebuild in the future.
Thanks for the advice. The brake sensor I am not as worried about as the transmission. It did not necessarily feel like it was in tieback per se, but it was very similar as I said above to the issue I have with my Infiniti SUV that does the same when you're coming to a dead stop after rolling, a rough downshift from 2 to 1. Dealer claimed the axles needed to be lubed and did such, which fixed it for a while, then it started up again.
I am not a mechanic nor do I have a shop, though I am "handy" when it comes to simple things. For example, I am confident I can do the valve cover gaskets myself, but when it comes to transmission issues or perhaps the fan bearing, I would take it to an indy.
My gripe with the price is that there are literally 5 for sale within 100 miles from me, two at a dealer, 3 private including this one. This one appears to be the cleanest one and best priced. Lowest # owners, maintenance records, etc.
There is a nice clean dealer one that is Navy with the 18" wheel upgrades but light interior and 3 more owners than this - auction sold and no maintenance history. The dealer one is $8k, cheapest one is $2500 with 150k and not even a real title (dealer assignment papers) no history...
I tend to like to buy cars from people as **** as myself when it comes to record keeping and maintenance. you can tell this car was owner 1's pride and he did commute in it from Long island NY to NYC, but paid to maintain it properly. The 2nd owner has put some money into it, but I think he began to slack in the last year or so (though he did do brakes and new tires last year, but skipped the valve cover gasket and trans fluid change - though he got a quote from his usual Indy guy)
I am not sure if it is worth spending ~$150 to have a PPI done on the car, because I am sure the issues that will pop up are ones I know, like the VC gasket and the fan noise.
As described, do you all think the trans may be a ticking time bomb? I know you mentioned above that yours had a rough 2-1 one shift it's entire life and lasted to the mid 100k mark... does this sound like the same shifting?
I do not mind putting a few bucks into maintenance / preventative maintenance but don't want to walk over leaves and sticks spread over a black hole.
---
Another question: with fresh plugs, air filters, is a highway MPG of 25+ with a light foot and good fuel an actual number or is it likely to be closer to 19? I see mixed reviews but I'm sure heavy foots have something to do with it.
For example, my V8 SUV claims 25+ MPG highway but I get about 19HW, 10city, 14 average... (tuned, no cats, lead foot)
That being said, is there any tuning software out there for the d2? Not for power per se, but to adjust the power band to save on gas...or perhaps have 2 maps to run depending on the driver...
I believe the shocks and struts were replaced already around 60-80k, but was considering looking into aftermarket suspension depending how the ride ends up being every day. Are there plug-and-play options for "comfortable" coil overs or an air bag kit?
another thing - the owner couldn't seem to get the headlight washers to work, and I am not used to Audi lighting or washer controls (Mercedes Family) Any help would be great - if it's another thing to try and get the price down.
thanks for all the assistance. Unless one of you thinks otherwise I plan to have the PPI done thurs or friday and the car purchased by saturday.
Thanks for all the help, I am looking forward to joining the community.
if anyone is interested to see another community I am part of, check me out on Infiniti SUV forum:
Infiniti Scene Forums
01-20-2016, 02:03 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Jbaker1121
I'll have to have the fan clutch bearing checked out. if I posted a video, would you be able to tell me if that's what it was? The owner said he thought/his shop though it was the tensioner pulley, but when I went to listen it sounded like the passenger side fan...
Originally Posted by Jbaker1121
This one appears to be the cleanest one and best priced. Lowest # owners, maintenance records, etc.
Originally Posted by Jbaker1121
As described, do you all think the trans may be a ticking time bomb? I know you mentioned above that yours had a rough 2-1 one shift it's entire life and lasted to the mid 100k mark... does this sound like the same shifting?
Did some Googling on '5hp24 thump' - this is apparently the kit to fix it: TransGo ZF 5HP-24: 5HP-24-PR
You'll not find out the state of the clutch packs until you drain the oil, but if it shifts nicely on the highway and pulls well they're probably ok. That kit can be done at the same time as the oil and filter kit so its worth a shot and should prolong the life a fair bit.
Originally Posted by Jbaker1121
another thing - the owner couldn't seem to get the headlight washers to work, and I am not used to Audi lighting or washer controls (Mercedes Family) Any help would be great - if it's another thing to try and get the price down.
Trending Topics
01-20-2016, 03:35 PM
#10
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, its a simple continuity circuit between the inner pads on each side. ABS problems have a different symbol.
Ok, I guess it's just something I'll have to deal with and stare at. I wonder if hooking up VAGCOM would give me an option to shut it off?
Could be the rollers - there is one on each side of the motor. The one next to the alternator (under the fan) is the actual tensioner, the one on the AC / PS side is just an idler. The fan pulley is easy enough to get to with the accessory belt and viscous fan removed - its just very expensive. Personally I'd pull the accessory belt and see how each one feels when you spin it by hand and replace as necessary.
sounds expensive. He did say the mechanic said it was the 'tensioner pulley' so perhaps it is actually that and not the fan, since it did sound like it was coming from the area of the passenger side fan. perhaps it IS the actual tensioner. I'll have to see about this. Is it dangerous to drive around like this for long?
Maintenance is everything on these IMO. Its worth paying more for one that you know has been looked after, and if the price is proportional to the others in your area the perhaps its not too expensive.
I agree. I am all for paying a little more for one I know was cared about
All Audi tiptronic transmissions of that era are ticking time bombs. If you can get to it before the clutches start slipping then its much cheaper to fix than a full rebuild
Did some Googling on '5hp24 thump' - this is apparently the kit to fix it: TransGo ZF 5HP-24: 5HP-24-PR
You'll not find out the state of the clutch packs until you drain the oil, but if it shifts nicely on the highway and pulls well they're probably ok. That kit can be done at the same time as the oil and filter kit so its worth a shot and should prolong the life a fair bit.
The clutches seemed to be fine - didn't feel any slipping at low speeds or at highway speeds, including an on-ramp pull, 55-70 pull, and normal driving. Like I said, only thing that I THINK may be an issue is the abrupt 2-1 shift at low speed, which only happened once when rolling at about 10 and stopping a bit short. otherwise I did roll-stop at the light and a stop sign and didn't feel it.
are these the same AWD transmissions that are in the Range Rover of that era? i know those also have a huge transmission problem at the mile range....
Headlights on, then wash the screen. The headlight washers should pop up and spray. If not then it could just be the pump, or it could be electrical.
Ok, I guess it's just something I'll have to deal with and stare at. I wonder if hooking up VAGCOM would give me an option to shut it off?
Could be the rollers - there is one on each side of the motor. The one next to the alternator (under the fan) is the actual tensioner, the one on the AC / PS side is just an idler. The fan pulley is easy enough to get to with the accessory belt and viscous fan removed - its just very expensive. Personally I'd pull the accessory belt and see how each one feels when you spin it by hand and replace as necessary.
sounds expensive. He did say the mechanic said it was the 'tensioner pulley' so perhaps it is actually that and not the fan, since it did sound like it was coming from the area of the passenger side fan. perhaps it IS the actual tensioner. I'll have to see about this. Is it dangerous to drive around like this for long?
Maintenance is everything on these IMO. Its worth paying more for one that you know has been looked after, and if the price is proportional to the others in your area the perhaps its not too expensive.
I agree. I am all for paying a little more for one I know was cared about
All Audi tiptronic transmissions of that era are ticking time bombs. If you can get to it before the clutches start slipping then its much cheaper to fix than a full rebuild
Did some Googling on '5hp24 thump' - this is apparently the kit to fix it: TransGo ZF 5HP-24: 5HP-24-PR
You'll not find out the state of the clutch packs until you drain the oil, but if it shifts nicely on the highway and pulls well they're probably ok. That kit can be done at the same time as the oil and filter kit so its worth a shot and should prolong the life a fair bit.
The clutches seemed to be fine - didn't feel any slipping at low speeds or at highway speeds, including an on-ramp pull, 55-70 pull, and normal driving. Like I said, only thing that I THINK may be an issue is the abrupt 2-1 shift at low speed, which only happened once when rolling at about 10 and stopping a bit short. otherwise I did roll-stop at the light and a stop sign and didn't feel it.
are these the same AWD transmissions that are in the Range Rover of that era? i know those also have a huge transmission problem at the mile range....
Headlights on, then wash the screen. The headlight washers should pop up and spray. If not then it could just be the pump, or it could be electrical.
Do you all think it is worth the ~$150 to get a PPI done? I figured even if they don't find anything else, that having them play up the VC gasket and the noisy tensioner would be enough to help lower the price... (by hopefully more than $150)
We are excited to purchase but I want to make sure it is not a mistake.