a8a6rs2

<center><img src="http://www.tyresmoke.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33628&amp;d=1217961907 "></center><p>
My 98 S8 (EU spec) cannot start. specifically doesn't even crank.
I've checked battery, relays and the junction box near the front right wheel and they seem ok.

my main problem is that I cannot find and gain access to the starter. manual says the alternator has to be removed. but looking the car from under it I only see cables going to the alternator and the rest going up towards the engine bay.
I took a picture posted here, to show you that what you see is not on my car. instead those cables are connected to the alternator.

does anyone have an idea where/how can I find and gain access to the starter without dismantling half the car?


also there is a relatively thin cable coming from the top front right side of the engine ang going down to where the starter is supposed to be, that shows signs of wear. could this be the ignition lock cable? and might be the cause of my problem?


sorry for the long post.

jikons

You have to lower the entire subframe to access to it. check my account and see pictures

PaulW

Here is a picture from Tozo's picture poster:

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/80919/dscn2139.jpg">

You might have to remove the plastic inner liner on the wheel well, I can't remember. But it brings power from the battery to the starter, it's on the right hand side of the car.

Look at it, I bet it's corroded, you clean it up/repair it and it should work. At least you can see if there is 12VDC going to the starter.

Cheers!

a8a6rs2

PaulW I've checked that junction box,it's actually the one I mention in my post. looks pretty solid and the voltmeter gave 12V.

jikons, is there any way to do this without lowering the subframe? I don't want to remove it, just to check the cables.
also the service manual mentions removal of the alternator. is that necessary too?

PaulW

When doing the transmission on my 97, I put the solenoid wire on the wrong post (there are two of them that it can fit on) and we spent about 1 hour trying to get in there with our hands and pliers...and finally got it. But that was a buy who runs a transmission shop.

You can see the starter here:

<img src="http://www.audipages.com/images/sm_DSCN0030.JPG">

That's because the subframe was on the floor:

<img src="http://www.audipages.com/images/sm_DSCN0031.JPG">

I would next check the power supply to the starter. It could be something as simple as the ignition switch. Do you have the schematics? I don't have them for the UK cars, but have them for the US LHD.

PaulW

The wire that powers the starter solenoid is feed from the ignition switch. If you turn your ignition on and everything lights up, then you have power to the ignition switch.

The wire that feeds the starter solenoid is a 2,5 mm black with red stripe wire (large wire). I would take the ignition switch out <a href="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/electrical_equipment/ignswitchreplace.html">Per this procedure</a> and then pull the electrical connector.

You can see the large black wire here on the bottom of the purple round connector:

<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/electrical_equipment/trajectory.jpg">

Remove the connector from the switch. Using a multimeter set to ohms, measure the resistance between the black wire terminal (labeled 50b on the ignition switch) to earth (ground). It should read the resistance of the wire and the solenoid....I'm going to say somewhere in the range of 3-10 ohms. If you have an open circuit, that would be your problem.

If you get a good reading, I would jump 12 VDC to the wire and see if it turns the starter over. If so....sounds like your ignition switch is the culptrit.

Also, review <a href="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/electrical_equipment/immowirereplace.html">this procedure</a>, but based on your fault codes, it doesn't sound like it's the problem.

PaulW

There is one other component between the ignition switch and starter solenoid, it's the J207 relay, located at position 4 on the bottom relay panel shown here:

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/22012/relay_box.jpg">

It's the forth one from the left, or third one from the right.

I would unscrew that whole relay tray to get better access. Find the black/red wire located at position 19/50z and check for everything there. Power goes in there, and you measure the resistance of the starter solenoid from 17/50A.

It's all marked. I sent you the wiring diagram....

Here's from my email:

Here is the wiring diagram for a 1999 pre facelift A8, LHD. It should be close. You want to look at page 29/5 for the starter and solenoid (B), J207 is the interlocking relay which could also be a problem for you (did not post that on audiworld, look at the first page of the wiring diagrams, you will see the location of relay J207, position 4 in the central electric panel - front side).....but the ignition switch is located on page 29/22.

Look at the trace numbers at the bottom, on 29/22, see 239, follow that vertical to 50b, that's the black/red wire. It continues on trace 21, page 29/5 to the starter interlock relay. Then over to 19/50z, across the relay to 17/50A then down to the starter.

Actually, I would go to this relay, which I believe is in the electrical panel on the RH side floor of the passenger compartment and troubleshoot from the relay. You could measure the resistance of the starter solenoid from position 17/50A after pulling the relay.

a8a6rs2

Paul thanks a lot for your info and support
unfortunately I think I'm out of luck.
me thinks there is an open circuit somewhere from the relay (J207) to the starter.

what I did was
lift the relay half way.
put my voltmeter and while turning the ignition on (to the end position as if I would start the car) saw 12V on one signal pin, 0V on the other 12V on the input and 12V on the output.
If you or someone else has a J207 relay, 30 is input, 57 output, 55,56 signal pins. at least this is what I think they are.

I also tested the condactivity between output pin for relay and earth and never got a number reading.

PaulW

Yep, sounds like an open circuit somewhere

tozoM8

and back to P a couple of times. If you have a dirty park neutral safety switch it won't let you start the car. If it still doesn't start, take a 10" long wire and jump it from the big +12V terminal to the black wire on the two wire connector next to the big terminal. If it starts, then it will be the ignition switch or the park neutral safety switch.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/80919/dscn2139.jpg">