hunterp27

Gang,

I am about to begin a project that I need some input from the experts. I have located a pair of used front S8 calipers that I am going to purchase so that I don't have to take the car out of service for the overhaul. I am going to send them out to the powdercoater to have them colored (not sure on the color yet but leaning towards and dark blue to go against my black car) and have the seals replaced. The powdercoating shop fully disassembles them before he applies the color. Not sure what I am going to do about the rears yet. May buy a set of those too and do the same thing at the same time.

Here are my questions:

1. eBay is full of seals and such but I do not know what to buy. saw this, but saw many others as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Disc-Brake-Hardware-Kit-Pad-Caliper-Hardware-Front-Centric-117-33031-/161451563326?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3AAudi%7CModel%3AS8&hash=item259743593e&vxp=mtr
2. Do I need this device to do the re-install?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDI-A3-A4-A5-A6-A8-S3-S4-S5-S6-S8-BRAKE-CALIPER-WINDBACK-REWIND-TOOL-/360760421382?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53feff2c06
3. Do I need the VAG VCSD cable/software since I will be replacing the calipers and rotors and pads?

4. How big of a difference will braided SS brake lines make?

Additionally, I will be replacing the rotors, pads and fluid all at the same time. This project is for fun and its needed all at the same time. Rotors and pads are at the end of their life and I want to add some personalization to my car at the same time without going over top with a wild-*** color on the calipers.

Estimated costs thus far:
used calipers (front) $245.00 w/free shipping
caliper powdercoating $300.00 for front and rear $40.00 shipping
caliper overhaul seals $???
Front and Rear rotors and pads from Adams Rotors $750.00 w???$/shipping
SS brake lines $150.00

Any input from experience would be appreciated.

MP4.2+6.0

My answers are bolded and inline indented below:

mishar

1. Forget eBay and buy overhaul kit from audiusaparts.com.

2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAL-HAWK-DISC-BRAKE-PAD-SPREADER-PISTON-PUSH-BACK-TOOL-/251308264188?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item3a8323cafc
3. Yes.

4. No difference, but it is good to replace hoses. Again audiusaparts.com

ATE SL.6 brake fluid

S8 calipers are black. I would not go for all of this for dark blue. But that's me. I would also go with OE rotors and pads.

hunterp27

Mishar and MP4.2+6.0

You two guys are as reliable as a Rolex Datejust II 41mm in terms of replying to questions and I really appreciate that. Further comments and questions after yall's replies above.
1. The place that's going to do the powdercoating is very experienced in doing calipers. They have a complete section on their webpage specific to their efforts and experience on calipers and all the safeguards that need to be taken with regard to bolt holes and surface areas that meet. THEPOWDERCOATER.com | Presented by Customs by Mike
2. Thumbs up on the C-Clamp versus a specific tool
3. Again, since everything is coming apart, do I really need the VCSD tool? I want one but do I have to have it for this job?
4. OK, scrap the braided SS lines......

I know that colored calipers are really a personal decision. If this were an A8, I might not do it, but since its an S8, it seems like a very agreeable customization such as you find on the AMG S63 or Maserati Sedans or the Panamera etc....I've spoken with the guys at The Powdercoaters and they are going to make the S8 decal and clear coat over the top. I offered to send the decals with the calipers but they said they haven't had good luck with other's decals, so they make their own. They also have a decal for the rear calipers too.
As far as Adams rotors is concerned, I feel confident that their product is viable for this application and they have been extremely responsive to me via email.
Lastly, once the project is over, I will have an extra set of front calipers that someone else could do this very same thing if interested.

Take a look at these. Would these fit our cars? http://www.ebay.com/itm/BREMBO-18ZL-AUDI-A8-S4-S8-S6-RS6-CAYENNE-TOUAREG-BRAKE-CALIPER-CALIPERS-/151404895737?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item23406f5df9&vxp=mtr

MP4.2+6.0

No, you 100% do not need VAG-COM/VCDS for the FRONT brakes. You 100% do need it for the backs though (to open/close the parking brake motor to free the pads). If you intend to own the car for any length of time it will quickly pay for itself as far as diagnostics, let alone any preferred mods, etc. Net, buy one, but no you don't "need" it strictly for this (front only) job.

Color wise: Strictly up to you, but the further it strays from silver, gray or black, or maybe red in some aggressive applications the less it looks like OE. FWIW I have basically approached my brake detailing work with the first three colors, though did install the Brembo set up in red on the Mini S. It was used, so I added a fees accents, and actually got an "S" decal from a Corolla S that was close. I have found with some two tone contrasting on the different major components you can give it a nice look but still not look gimmicky.

Brake mods w/ "factory" approaches: Generically maybe, but as soon as they mix Cayenne and Touareg in the credibility of that listing drops. Like the Q7 stablemate, totally different hub bolt pattern ( 5 x130) than most other modern Audis (5 x 112), which means any related rotors are a total non starter. There are some obscure mods involving Q7/Porsche rear calipers crossed over to other Audi rotors IIRC, but not relevant to D3's, plus on the D3 you have to deal with the rear electric brake, which itself has been superseded by a newer and more compact style and plug on newer Audis, including my Q5. There is the uber big bucks/Euro carbon ceramic brakes Audi offered in Europe that pioneered on the D3 (first on W12) as an option, and that essentially became the R8 early ceramic option set up. That aside, the highest performance conventional set up from the worldwide Audi parts bin is here: Audi RS6 V10 4F Bremsanlage RS6 Bremse 390 x 36mm RS 6 Bremse org.E-Teile Brembo | eBay. Too high a price they always ask, price has Euro VAT in it, and they don't even bother w/ e mails outside Europe AFAIK. It's a virtual straight cross over to the D3 since the brake/hub was still the same between the C6 RS6 and the D3. The semi floating rotors take out several pounds minimum even if somewhat larger, and even with the massive calipers weight tends to come out because the Brembo brackets to the hub/steering knuckle are compact compared to the big and heavy steel ones you find in the D3 set up. As wear parts, the rotors (expensive) and pads are findable from various Euro vendors who could ship (kind of expensive, though DHL can work even for brakes), but the C6 RS6 calipers are essentially non existent as used parts. I run the smaller version of the same on the Q5, easily found as the RS5 set up with the newer bigger hub size. I sourced my calipers for that from Germany, the rotors via the R8 listing for OES on eBay U.S. and the pads from audiusaparts.com straight from a stock RS5 set up. Equivalent to a B7 RS4 set up for D3 hub rotor sizing. Classic great Brembo business look. At 365 mm up front a little undersized for S8's or W12's. You can also do 400mm with the Bentley Continental front set up, but that adds yet more weight over the 39 pound W12/S8 rotor, and apparently is basically just a front caliper bracket tweak and a Bentley pad clip style thing.

MP4.2+6.0

You will be doing fluid here too since you are opening lines and doing a swap over. Misha flagged the current Audi SL spec stuff, which I would probably now use for any ESP/ABS vehicle living in strong cold winter conditions. SL Fluid (sometimes called 4+ or 4.1 I think) stays a little less viscous for rapid cycling of ESP system in extreme cold.

But I live near the coast with little freezing, and so tend to favor the best high temp/high boiling point stuff. Likewise would favor if I lived in a high humidity area where "wet" fluid boiling can happen earlier on for a given life of fluid. Audi/VW fluid is already relatively high as against standard DO4 spec, but I go for the yet higher Ate Gold Typ 200 spec. Easily found from a variety of places. Used to be sold as "Blue" too--identical chemistry but blue colored to know when you flushed system by color. DOT forced a recall since US DOT fluid must be gold by spec. I always used Gold Typ 200 anyway. Some enthusiasts seem to run some Motul flavors with high boiling point as another option. Audi fluid is strong though on this, albeit a bit higher on the non-SL straight DOT 4 if I remember right. D3's were shipped pre-SL spec tweak, which is pretty recent.

mishar

This may sound like hairsplitting, well, probably because it is.

In my long driving experience from winding mountain roads to Autobahn, including some racing, I've never experienced lost of pedal because of fluid boiling. So I am more than happy with all modern brake fluids boiling points, even if they are a bit lower than ATE 200's. They are already much better than they used to be.

On the other hand I appreciate every minor improvement in ABS functionality, especially as that system is used on modern cars as a part of ESP and LSD, almost exclusively when it is cold and icy. To improve ABS functionality we need fluid viscosity as low es possible, so it can rush trough tiny valves precisely following computer orders. That's where ATE.SL is champion for now.

Driving luxury car I don't plan repeated hard braking. Ice on the road or deep snow in my back alley is beyond my powers.

MP4.2+6.0

Car and Driver did have a lot of explaining and justifying to do after they stuffed the NISMO 370Z into the wall at 130. Test they did to explain their seeming bad driving moves references Typ 200 specifically, plus references generally high boiling point spec of Audi fluid. Still didn't prevent a repeat of the issue, but it did delay onset. Z Meets Wall: We Investigate Why the NISMO Z's Brakes Failed at Lightning Lap - Feature - Car and Driver In a less tongue in cheek note, the prior 350 Z also has the poor distinction of the highest reported death rate on the road: These 10 Vehicles Have Been Deemed the Deadliest on the Road

The more practical real world issue is at least post-Audi brake service flush during 4 year AudiCare window, probably most owners don't bother with fluid changes. I think your stereotypical "appliance" owner doesn't have a clue. Thus in the lowest common denominator scenario, I would guess a lot of folks drive around with pretty high water content fluid. Even a few percent is bad news. Thus, starting from a higher boil point improves relative margin for error, and the real world (likely wet boiling point) for many cars on the road is way lower than the new fluid spec.

For what it's worth, I have boiled fluid in yesteryear. No fun... Audi 100LS with the old notorious inboard (non vented) rotors, where the passenger rotor was literally sandwiched by the twin exhaust headpipe, and the caliper was bolted way up on the side of the tranny. That was DOT 4 Castrol LMA. Downshift, pull parking brake and pray... Also felt it once coming on exiting an Autobahn down hill ramp too fast in a then almost brand new Audi 5000 that was heavily loaded 5 adults and stuffed trunk) that particular day. Fortunately a 5 speed stick there that I was already rowing and it was only near the end of the roll it got borderline. Both were FWD and rear drum, so fronts took a huge load and rears could fade pretty early. Meanwhile, in SF Bay Area (and LA, San Diego, etc.) temp wise, you can run even summer tires literally all year; it's Tahoe where it gets cold and snowy for me.

I hear you on SL though, and will be rolling Audis that go to Tahoe winters over to it. On the other hand, Mini (w/ ESP and ABS but one of the last mechanical factory Mini LSDs) stays Typ 2 as a non Tahoe (winter) and very trackable ride.

mishar

With 2+ ton A8? No. These cars performance is meant for emergency situations. They can turn exceptionally if you misjudged a corner, or brake from 250 km/h before hitting a pile on Autobahn, but on a track they will overheat tires and brakes in no time and end up the wall just like that NISMO 370Z. If those guys wanted to prove that 370 is not a racing car they did it. Not that it will stop wannabe racers from killing somebody.