Alignment in Comfort/ Auto/ Dynamic
08-17-2015, 05:47 PM
#1
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Alignment in Comfort/ Auto/ Dynamic
Cliff Notes version: Does Audi incorporate some kind of fancy alignment adjustment so that we don't get premature tire wear if driven around in Dynamic mode all the time?
Long version:
10 Days ago my kids were playing in the garage and kicked the stop block I use as a parking aid (a brick on the ground). The sidewall of my tires rolled up on it and tore a small hole. That earned me 4 new tires all around because the previous owner put Gianna brand tires on there, which I could not find as singles.
Opted for Continental Extreme Contact DWS06's.
*side note* Apparently I am the only person in the country, perhaps the world, running them in 255/35-20. Conti sent them to my tire guy by mistake, they were not to be released until September. He called trying to get 2 more for another customer and they acted incredibly upset that he even had them at his store, let alone on my car!
Went in today to get the DWS's installed, upon removing the old tires from the car you could see the belts on the inside of the tires! Inner edges on the front tires were worn down to the belts. Inner edges on the rear tires were down to smooth rubber, but at least you couldn't see the belts.
Immediately after getting the new tires on the wheels, I took it for a 4-wheel alignment (assumed it needed one based on the tire wear). Alignment guru said the measurements were only slightly out, 1/16 on each front wheel! So, how do tires that show almost no wear on the visible tread get worn down to the belts on the inside if the alignment is not out?
Does the alignment get all 'wonky' when in dynamic mode? Throw out the toe or camber?
I have no idea how the previous owner drove this car, if driven around in dynamic all the time, would you wear out the inner edges of tires that quickly?
*scary side note* when my tire guy deflated my old tires the rubber actually separated from the belts on the inner edges. I had just had the old girl up to 110 that morning!
Long version:
10 Days ago my kids were playing in the garage and kicked the stop block I use as a parking aid (a brick on the ground). The sidewall of my tires rolled up on it and tore a small hole. That earned me 4 new tires all around because the previous owner put Gianna brand tires on there, which I could not find as singles.
Opted for Continental Extreme Contact DWS06's.
*side note* Apparently I am the only person in the country, perhaps the world, running them in 255/35-20. Conti sent them to my tire guy by mistake, they were not to be released until September. He called trying to get 2 more for another customer and they acted incredibly upset that he even had them at his store, let alone on my car!
Went in today to get the DWS's installed, upon removing the old tires from the car you could see the belts on the inside of the tires! Inner edges on the front tires were worn down to the belts. Inner edges on the rear tires were down to smooth rubber, but at least you couldn't see the belts.
Immediately after getting the new tires on the wheels, I took it for a 4-wheel alignment (assumed it needed one based on the tire wear). Alignment guru said the measurements were only slightly out, 1/16 on each front wheel! So, how do tires that show almost no wear on the visible tread get worn down to the belts on the inside if the alignment is not out?
Does the alignment get all 'wonky' when in dynamic mode? Throw out the toe or camber?
I have no idea how the previous owner drove this car, if driven around in dynamic all the time, would you wear out the inner edges of tires that quickly?
*scary side note* when my tire guy deflated my old tires the rubber actually separated from the belts on the inner edges. I had just had the old girl up to 110 that morning!
08-17-2015, 06:10 PM
#2
AudiWorld Wiseguy
Nothing funky happens with the geometry depending on suspension mode. So as the alignment checked out within tolerances then it's safe to say that the problem was those ditch finder tires that you had on it. Cheap tires are cheap for a reason.
08-17-2015, 06:43 PM
#3
AudiWorld Super User
Inner tire belts worn, 90K miles. To be honest, sounds pretty straightforward as a likely guess to me: upper control arm bushings. By 90K they/upper control arms should have ben changed already. Std. D3 wear item. If not, or if more than 50K miles ago, that's your likely answer. Sway bar links are likely to show some wear/deformity too, but they won't affect alignment or tire wear.
Alignment place frankly should have caught it if they know Audis and my hunch is correct. While it aligns at rest, I think the alignment goes out dynamically with drivetrain torque, probably more so braking. You are looking for deep cracks at the bushings themselves. If bushings gone, it will need to be aligned again, after parts replaced. Search if not familiar; one of the top topics on AW D3 forum historically.
Alignment place frankly should have caught it if they know Audis and my hunch is correct. While it aligns at rest, I think the alignment goes out dynamically with drivetrain torque, probably more so braking. You are looking for deep cracks at the bushings themselves. If bushings gone, it will need to be aligned again, after parts replaced. Search if not familiar; one of the top topics on AW D3 forum historically.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 08-17-2015 at 07:24 PM.
08-18-2015, 04:15 AM
#6
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
1/16 of toe...
Yes, the bushings are worn- I caught that in my pre purchase inspection (they are worn, some cracking- but not 'gone'). I knew they needed to be done sooner or later- Looks like "Sooner" time has come....
Thanks all!
Yes, the bushings are worn- I caught that in my pre purchase inspection (they are worn, some cracking- but not 'gone'). I knew they needed to be done sooner or later- Looks like "Sooner" time has come....
Thanks all!
08-18-2015, 05:27 AM
#7
AudiWorld Senior Member
Toe in is just one part of the total picture. There is caster and camber to consider as well. Then there is the rear alignment where everything is duplicated again (toe, caster, etc). Whole degrees out are no longer acceptable. Alignment specs are down to minutes (fractions) of a degree.
Replace the bushings/arms and then have a good alignment done and make sure that the tech understands that within spec isn't good enough. It is either 0.0 degrees out or it isn't right. If you have to tip the tech so he does it to perfect, so be it. Remind the tech that he is dealing with a $100,000 car and that if he doesn't follow your instructions he will be doing it again for free.
Replace the bushings/arms and then have a good alignment done and make sure that the tech understands that within spec isn't good enough. It is either 0.0 degrees out or it isn't right. If you have to tip the tech so he does it to perfect, so be it. Remind the tech that he is dealing with a $100,000 car and that if he doesn't follow your instructions he will be doing it again for free.
Last edited by richard-tx; 08-18-2015 at 05:32 AM.
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08-18-2015, 08:19 AM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
You can't really tell how bad the cracking is until you have them out. You can see it though with them in and the wheels off for a better view. If any crack is actually opened up (even like 1/32") that's a strong pointer they are going and now have play. Remember these are essentially A4 late 90's parts with meaningfully lower sprung and unsprung weights that were never particularly beefed up for the much greater weights and forces with A8 heft. I did a long post with many pics documenting my D3's in the 50K mile wear range. From my C5 4.2 experience, if you are seeing the inside wear and/or chunking, they are done. And/or tie rods are worn, which is not common on a D3 with somewhat beefier ones.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 08-18-2015 at 08:23 AM.
08-18-2015, 12:06 PM
#9
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Well, I knew they were needing to be done anyway- so I went and ordered a set of the Poly bushings- I know they are more maintenance, but I think the extra longevity will be worth it.