audi w12 transmission
01-29-2015, 11:32 AM
#1
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
audi w12 transmission
Does anyone know if the audi a8l w12 shifts at redline in first and second gear in automatic mode? I was watching a youtube video and in one video it shifted at 5500 rpms in first and 6100 rpms in second and 6200 in third and fourth. Does the a8l w12 shift short of redline and power peak in the first two gears in automatic shift mode like the Mercedes s class?
01-29-2015, 12:11 PM
#3
AudiWorld Member
From everything I have read, the S8 and W12 are neck and neck when it comes to acceleration with even more torque available at lower RPM from the W12. If I were you and you are torn, drive both and decide from there. Redlining a 12 Cylinder motor in a luxobarge should be far from your shopping list, but if redlining is what you want to do an S8 may make more sense 
01-29-2015, 01:20 PM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
Doesn't hardly matter for W12! Power curves attached
As the earlier reply noted, the W12 torque is very strong way low down, so where it shifts exactly would frankly hardly matter. FWIW, I think it shifts at approx. redline in each case; at least 6000. I can look at my next excuse to have fun. Frankly the full on 1-2 progression is so fast and so strong you hardly have time to look at tach while paying attention to the rapid blur rolling out.
The W12's strength is that low heavy torque. If you look at the HP and torque curve, I think you can make a case why holding it all the way to redline would not be the performance move anyway. Look at the curves--at 6000RPM you are back to the torque down at a loping 1500RPM, and even 1000RPM is big time. Torque converter soaks up more than that. Way different than most motors that way, and can do what a modern turbo does torque wise low down but with no need to make any excuse or qualifiers or debates about lag. W12's always have paddles if you want to play, but with pedal to floor its more a mistake waiting to happen than an obvious improver. S8 by contrast runs higher up. On 0-60 type times they are really similar. S8 is the lower geared (numerically higher) of the two. W12 is very high geared (good for long term engine life too), and the S8 is a SWB (about 40kg/90 pounds there) and with usually somewhat less equipment, so W12 may be carrying another 150-200 pounds. I've seen a few videos where an S8 slightly takes a W12 from a standing start. A guess is the W12 may get the nod if it is rolling, as soon as that lower final drive ratio off the line fades away. D4 4.0T will take either of them, let alone the D4 S8. I think the lower gearing of the S8 is what costs it a bit of fuel "economy" at the margin and puts it back in the same general range as the W12.
Next time I might buy an S8 only to get SWB, but then I'll struggle to get it max loaded. May likely send me back to W12 since they are always almost maxed anyway. 5 seconds to 60 for D3 W12 is already way more power than I can use 99% of time. But since I have pretty much cut off model year any earlier than the just done 2015 D4 refresh for various reasons, I will probably continue to smile all the way to a D5. Or...a used R8...
Can't go wrong with either one. Both quite special and keepers. Think thru SWB vs/ LWB along the way; for some that may decide the question for North America models where there is no SWB W12 like in Europe.
The W12's strength is that low heavy torque. If you look at the HP and torque curve, I think you can make a case why holding it all the way to redline would not be the performance move anyway. Look at the curves--at 6000RPM you are back to the torque down at a loping 1500RPM, and even 1000RPM is big time. Torque converter soaks up more than that. Way different than most motors that way, and can do what a modern turbo does torque wise low down but with no need to make any excuse or qualifiers or debates about lag. W12's always have paddles if you want to play, but with pedal to floor its more a mistake waiting to happen than an obvious improver. S8 by contrast runs higher up. On 0-60 type times they are really similar. S8 is the lower geared (numerically higher) of the two. W12 is very high geared (good for long term engine life too), and the S8 is a SWB (about 40kg/90 pounds there) and with usually somewhat less equipment, so W12 may be carrying another 150-200 pounds. I've seen a few videos where an S8 slightly takes a W12 from a standing start. A guess is the W12 may get the nod if it is rolling, as soon as that lower final drive ratio off the line fades away. D4 4.0T will take either of them, let alone the D4 S8. I think the lower gearing of the S8 is what costs it a bit of fuel "economy" at the margin and puts it back in the same general range as the W12.
Next time I might buy an S8 only to get SWB, but then I'll struggle to get it max loaded. May likely send me back to W12 since they are always almost maxed anyway. 5 seconds to 60 for D3 W12 is already way more power than I can use 99% of time. But since I have pretty much cut off model year any earlier than the just done 2015 D4 refresh for various reasons, I will probably continue to smile all the way to a D5. Or...a used R8...
Can't go wrong with either one. Both quite special and keepers. Think thru SWB vs/ LWB along the way; for some that may decide the question for North America models where there is no SWB W12 like in Europe.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 01-29-2015 at 01:37 PM.
01-29-2015, 04:03 PM
#5
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info. I like the fact that the w12 has ventilated and massaging seats that you cant get in the s8. But I like the fact that the s8 has lower gearing which would make it more entertaining under full acceleration even at the cost of fuel economy. I just like fast luxury cars even if I only floor it once in a while. Here in the states we only get the long wheelbase model of the w12 which is ok with me but if the w12 doesn't go to its power peak once its moving then its not accessing its full power. I understand that the torque plays the bigger role from standing start. I like the fact that audi offered a w12 for the d3. I guess its psychological knowing you have a twelve cylinder under the hood but the v10 s8 is special too. So does the w12 shift at 6200 rpms in first and second? The acceleration video of the w12 was tuned to around 500 horsepower. Is it possible the tuning change the shift points? I don't know if the tcu was tuned but it wasn't in the description. A luxury car dealer is selling a 2007 w12 fully loaded with the bench rear seating option. 94,000 miles at 23,000 dollars. They offer a three month warranty and an extended warranty. The w12 are rare here in the states so the car wont be there for long. I like both cars but I like knowing that the car can use its power potential when called apon.
01-29-2015, 04:45 PM
#6
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I like that this guy is trying to buy my W12 from under me! Just kidding, you should go for it. But let me call them first to low ball them and then you can offer slightly more!
02-01-2015, 02:48 PM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Checked it. Dead nuts @6200 exiting 1st & 2d.
Made a run in Sierras on a back highway. 6000 ft. plus and pulling up a continuous grade. Thus I could watch it on a quiet road over a longer elapsed time than the normal really fast reaction time. Video below.
Ran exactly to the redline start marks on tach at approx 6200 out of each of first and second. 6200 is max. HP per the dyno curves (copied here again), after which it rolls off fast. You can see in video it drops to 4200 entering second, which puts it right into the max torque sweet spot again per the stock dyno curves. Ignore elapsed time given grade pull, over 6000 ft. altitude, and my start was from shoulder. Low motor temp was coincidental but correct--from cold start basically downhill a few miles until I got to the open straight highway and grade.
110K miles, totally stock ECUs and TCU, 2006 W12, BSB motor. Replaced all Mechatronics (valve body) solenoids with factory ZF parts kit at about 100K. TCU has most current software version from dealer after I did an extensive fluid change. So it's probably as close to original "stock" and correctly maintained as possible.
Bottom line, no short shifting whatsoever in either first or second. Right on the money, at least nominally. From the torque curves it might actually benefit paddle shifting out a hair earlier--the old HP vs. torque debate--but hard to time in practice.
Ran exactly to the redline start marks on tach at approx 6200 out of each of first and second. 6200 is max. HP per the dyno curves (copied here again), after which it rolls off fast. You can see in video it drops to 4200 entering second, which puts it right into the max torque sweet spot again per the stock dyno curves. Ignore elapsed time given grade pull, over 6000 ft. altitude, and my start was from shoulder. Low motor temp was coincidental but correct--from cold start basically downhill a few miles until I got to the open straight highway and grade.
110K miles, totally stock ECUs and TCU, 2006 W12, BSB motor. Replaced all Mechatronics (valve body) solenoids with factory ZF parts kit at about 100K. TCU has most current software version from dealer after I did an extensive fluid change. So it's probably as close to original "stock" and correctly maintained as possible.
Bottom line, no short shifting whatsoever in either first or second. Right on the money, at least nominally.
From the torque curves it might actually benefit paddle shifting out a hair earlier--the old HP vs. torque debate--but hard to time in practice.Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 02-01-2015 at 04:30 PM.
