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A Fault Code Mess Ugh on my D3 S8

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Old 08-02-2014, 08:46 AM   #1
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Default A Fault Code Mess Ugh on my D3 S8

Newer member here and appreciate all the forum input. Has saved me so many times. Pretty much in learning mode still on my 2007 S8. Fabulous car but man my new best friend is my independent audi shop…… here's the CEL mess we are currently dealing with. Love my guys but not experienced with S8's (they are a high performance Audi, VM, Porsche shop but...) so I am trying to prioritize the potential problems:

Codes thrown as read via VAG-COM:

P1577-004 Open Circuit (005495-Right Engine Mount solenoid Valve (N145)

reco: replace mounts (engine mounts collapsing)

P2189-004 MIL ON (Bank 2, system too lean at idle- too much air intake at idle)

reco: checked vacum hoses and y connector for leaks (none), maybe needs new MAF?

P1647- 001- Intermittent (Check coding of ECU's (2) on power train Data Bus
reco: at a loss here, Bentley Manual says it could be coding issue on ECU's, brake electronics power train coding related to airbag control module adaptor, check brake electronics and ABS module.

reco: no f'n idea where to start

Mileage on car is about 52,300. Car is almost all original except all new gaskets and a colon blow at 45,000 miles LOL.

Go easy on my guys I have looked around the forum and have read up on just about everything I could but would like to get some confirmation (or not) on if the recommended fixes sync up with diagnosis.

Any thoughts would be appreciated………

Thanks from Atlanta

Last edited by dcc1433; 08-30-2014 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 08-02-2014, 09:58 AM   #2
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Re. Engine mount code: Ignore it. I've ignored mine for almost nine years. However, if engine mounts look like they are leaking brown goop, they need to be replaced. Just the code means nothing. Even a dealer once told me this.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mister Bally View Post
Re. Engine mount code: Ignore it. I've ignored mine for almost nine years. However, if engine mounts look like they are leaking brown goop, they need to be replaced. Just the code means nothing. Even a dealer once told me this.


Thanks that's one I can "check off"!! But I will check the leaking goo. Much appreciated.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:06 PM   #4
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Default On mounts, also...

look at the front torque support mount. That is a third mount for the motor, which should be far forward on the (US) passenger side. It is forward of the main mount. It has no solenoid or sensor in it, but at least for several of us with W12 and the same higher HP and torque has bee n known to crack. Likewise if it does, the brownish goo comes out and you will find it down the side of the mount area. On a W12 you can actually just barely see the mount from above without even pulling the air box. Loo near the front lower valve cover corner.

Bank 2 on the intake should be the drivers side, though its is a bit confusing when you deal with the O2 sensors, where B2S1 is the pre cat O2 sensor for the rear cylinders on the passenger side. In any case, check all your intake connections--the rubber boots from the air box to the throttle plate especially are the work of an extremely pissed off "Art" in Engineering when he had to shoehorn the twin boxes in. Also, another guess--if this is the drivers side and it is the same basic set up as the W12, the air pump takeoff for the hose is in the bottom of the drivers side air box. Unless you or the mechanic has dealt with it before, if anyone fooled with that air box and tried to get the bottom half out, it is a recipe for a broken hose or fitting below. That could drive a code like this I suppose, though it would still be pre-MAF. To get to that hose, you have to pull away the drivers side fender lining toward the front and then reach in and squeeze the plastic clamp fitting to un do it, or to snap it back together. Figure by now that air box has been out at least once. You would likely pull at least the top half to do the plugs at the first change (35K), and you have to pretty much take the whole box to get at the power steering reservoir to check it during service. If you want to check the hose without pulling everything out, take the upper half of the box out. Take the screws out that hold the lower half in--there are two or three around the sides. Then pull up. If it comes clear, of course the hose was not attached correctly. If it is basically stuck, don't use too much force. Just put it back together, with better comfort that hose is attached as it should be.

Failing this stuff, look at throttle body gasket and MAF. If the S8 is like the W12 again, there is also a Y type connector back behind the intake boot that plugs into it. On the W12 it is T shaped actually. Called the suction or "suck" valve or Y. On mine, I pulled by air box one day and the thing literally broke open on the base side of the T. Huge and very audible vacuum leak when I restarted without noticing. I managed to epoxy it back while I ordered a new one and changed it out. All those hoses are vacuum if there is an issue with anything in that set up.
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:45 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MP4.2+6.0 View Post
look at the front torque support mount. That is a third mount for the motor, which should be far forward on the (US) passenger side. It is forward of the main mount. It has no solenoid or sensor in it, but at least for several of us with W12 and the same higher HP and torque has bee n known to crack. Likewise if it does, the brownish goo comes out and you will find it down the side of the mount area. On a W12 you can actually just barely see the mount from above without even pulling the air box. Loo near the front lower valve cover corner.

Bank 2 on the intake should be the drivers side, though its is a bit confusing when you deal with the O2 sensors, where B2S1 is the pre cat O2 sensor for the rear cylinders on the passenger side. In any case, check all your intake connections--the rubber boots from the air box to the throttle plate especially are the work of an extremely pissed off "Art" in Engineering when he had to shoehorn the twin boxes in. Also, another guess--if this is the drivers side and it is the same basic set up as the W12, the air pump takeoff for the hose is in the bottom of the drivers side air box. Unless you or the mechanic has dealt with it before, if anyone fooled with that air box and tried to get the bottom half out, it is a recipe for a broken hose or fitting below. That could drive a code like this I suppose, though it would still be pre-MAF. To get to that hose, you have to pull away the drivers side fender lining toward the front and then reach in and squeeze the plastic clamp fitting to un do it, or to snap it back together. Figure by now that air box has been out at least once. You would likely pull at least the top half to do the plugs at the first change (35K), and you have to pretty much take the whole box to get at the power steering reservoir to check it during service. If you want to check the hose without pulling everything out, take the upper half of the box out. Take the screws out that hold the lower half in--there are two or three around the sides. Then pull up. If it comes clear, of course the hose was not attached correctly. If it is basically stuck, don't use too much force. Just put it back together, with better comfort that hose is attached as it should be.

Failing this stuff, look at throttle body gasket and MAF. If the S8 is like the W12 again, there is also a Y type connector back behind the intake boot that plugs into it. On the W12 it is T shaped actually. Called the suction or "suck" valve or Y. On mine, I pulled by air box one day and the thing literally broke open on the base side of the T. Huge and very audible vacuum leak when I restarted without noticing. I managed to epoxy it back while I ordered a new one and changed it out. All those hoses are vacuum if there is an issue with anything in that set up.
Fabulous input thanks…will get this to the shop right away. Hope it's not related to any catalytic converter issue, even though no concerns mentioned here. Again, big thanks!
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:23 AM   #6
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Default You're welcome. Also, O2 sensors...

One more thought: you don't really have the codes for it that I see/have run into, but the lean reading that drove your car to send the fault code has to come from somewhere--which should be from the forward (pre cat) O2 sensors. Folks with both W12's and S8's have had codes that seem to come from things as simple as finicky O2 connectors but no real problem otherwise. If I read yours right to be coming from the drivers side generally, look at the O2 connectors for that side. If the lock tab is broken by chance (BTDT), that's a give away the sensors have been unplugged before. Other folks-- and I--have had luck simply unplugging the sensors and putting some DeOxit type compound on the little terminals and then plugging them back in again. On the W12 all those connectors are by the (US) side passenger air box, but I think on the S8 people have said at least some driver's side ones are over on that same side.
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:39 AM   #7
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Well, had to take the s8 to audi and it's been there a week with no update call. India shop just didn't have the time. Fear something bad is brewing ugh! First day they said worn engine mount leak, vac hose leak, said they had to drive it for awhile to check, then all went dark LOL. At least I am getting my worth on the $135 diagnosis charge!! More when I find out what's up.
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:20 AM   #8
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P1577-004 Open Circuit (005495-Right Engine Mount solenoid Valve (N145)

reco: replace mounts (engine mounts collapsing)

P2189-004 MIL ON (Bank 2, system too lean at idle- too much air intake at idle)

reco: checked vacum hoses and y connector for leaks (none), maybe needs new MAF?[/QUOTE]


The engine mounts are common to go on the S8 and W12 models.

As for the air intake code, I had the same issue I believe. I removed the intake on my 4.2 while changing the spark plugs. Hooked it all back up and slowly had a loud air noise in the engine after driving it for a bit. Turned out the intake that hooks to the back of the engine wasn't fully secured. Secured it and tightened it down properly and haven't had an issue since.
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:02 PM   #9
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Possible that the air intake tube is loose or compromised on the pass side causing the lean condition?
Also, after much searching, I found the proper diagram with placement for the 4 catalytic converters and related 02 sensors. Of course now I cannot find it. Bank1 is rearmost cat on pass side, bank2 is front cat pass side. Bank3 is rearmost cat on driver's side, Bank4 is the front cat on driver's side.
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Old 09-06-2014, 12:23 PM   #10
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Default Thanks everyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Wasserwerks View Post
Possible that the air intake tube is loose or compromised on the pass side causing the lean condition?
Also, after much searching, I found the proper diagram with placement for the 4 catalytic converters and related 02 sensors. Of course now I cannot find it. Bank1 is rearmost cat on pass side, bank2 is front cat pass side. Bank3 is rearmost cat on driver's side, Bank4 is the front cat on driver's side.
Wanted to reply to all, thanks so much for the tremendous input. Well, the dealer had to call in AOA techs to figure out what's going on. Still no answer after 2 weeks. Vacuum hose leak was found but the other codes are baffling even the ATeam. I will pass along the latest comments and see if they have checked for them.

Worst thing is I got a stripped down A6 and it drives like a Lexus! Grateful for a free loaner but what a yawner! I bet this will be at least a 4 week visit perhaps with not a good fix or solution ugh!

Will keep all posted. Big thanks.
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Old 09-10-2014, 04:19 AM   #11
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Default 3 weeks and I get it back Today problems Solved (I hope!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcc1433 View Post
Newer member here and appreciate all the forum input. Has saved me so many times. Pretty much in learning mode still on my 2007 S8. Fabulous car but man my new best friend is my independent audi shop…… here's the CEL mess we are currently dealing with. Love my guys but not experienced with S8's (they are a high performance Audi, VM, Porsche shop but...) so I am trying to prioritize the potential problems:

Codes thrown as read via VAG-COM:

P1577-004 Open Circuit (005495-Right Engine Mount solenoid Valve (N145)

reco: replace mounts (engine mounts collapsing)

P2189-004 MIL ON (Bank 2, system too lean at idle- too much air intake at idle)

reco: checked vacum hoses and y connector for leaks (none), maybe needs new MAF?

P1647- 001- Intermittent (Check coding of ECU's (2) on power train Data Bus
reco: at a loss here, Bentley Manual says it could be coding issue on ECU's, brake electronics power train coding related to airbag control module adaptor, check brake electronics and ABS module.

reco: no f'n idea where to start

Mileage on car is about 52,300. Car is almost all original except all new gaskets and a colon blow at 45,000 miles LOL.

Go easy on my guys I have looked around the forum and have read up on just about everything I could but would like to get some confirmation (or not) on if the recommended fixes sync up with diagnosis.

Any thoughts would be appreciated………

Thanks from Atlanta
Well, dealer called yesterday and my car will be ready later today. Don't have all the details yet but It appears that the crank case tube below the air intake was bent or broken and was causing several of the lean fault codes. In addition, motor mounts were fine but there is a Bulletin out on this issue and AOA has a motor mount harness that is the fix...was throwing the P1577 above. Total damage: $1,242 plus tax ouch! But I am getting used to it now having owned the car for almost a year . trying to get it back to pristine condition. Thanks to Wasserwerks and everyone for the input.

As a side note, I asked for the cost to replace a few buttons that were peeling and the cost to replace and here's what I got back!! (front driver door open/close button $$530, MMi AM/FM $850 hahahaha). Needless to say will find another solution.

If I get more detail I will post after I pick up the car. Thanks for all the fabulous input. What a great community... Next up: rear spacers and lowering links!

Last edited by dcc1433; 09-10-2014 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 09-14-2014, 01:51 PM   #12
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Default That Was Short Lived !@#$%^&*()

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Well, dealer called yesterday and my car will be ready later today. Don't have all the details yet but It appears that the crank case tube below the air intake was bent or broken and was causing several of the lean fault codes. In addition, motor mounts were fine but there is a Bulletin out on this issue and AOA has a motor mount harness that is the fix...was throwing the P1577 above. Total damage: $1,242 plus tax ouch! But I am getting used to it now having owned the car for almost a year . trying to get it back to pristine condition. Thanks to Wasserwerks and everyone for the input.

As a side note, I asked for the cost to replace a few buttons that were peeling and the cost to replace and here's what I got back!! (front driver door open/close button $$530, MMi AM/FM $850 hahahaha). Needless to say will find another solution.

If I get more detail I will post after I pick up the car. Thanks for all the fabulous input. What a great community... Next up: rear spacers and lowering links!
No sooner do I get the car home than the CEL light goes back on. Same codes thrown. So I tuned around, drove the car back to the dealer, and left for Seoul South Korea. Told them they could work on it next week and let me know. For the 15 minutes I had it, it was a beautiful drive!! Dam I miss that machine!
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Old 09-16-2014, 10:18 AM   #13
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Sorry about the issues you are having. I see you are in Atlanta, which indy shop do you use?
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Old 09-20-2014, 05:07 PM   #14
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Too funny I just saw you on another topic and sent message. I use Eurotech in Marietta who is fabulous but Jim Ellis Cobb parkway for the more serious issues that take diagnostic time. JE charges a diagnostic fee of like $139 no matter how long it takes. I find it odd that you go to a dealer because they are suppose to be the experts in understanding the auto, and you have all these codes that tell them want the problem is, yet you have to pay them to tell you what's wrong, and then when they (dealer) doesn't fix problem to address the code issues correctly, they say oh it was bad anyway so we had to do, and we don't guarantee that this repair will fix the problem but you owe us anyway. This is my current situation with Jim Ellis. Not good. Defies good business sense to me. JE does not know the s8 well but the guys at Eurotech who only work on audi/Porsche and VW always do the right thing whether they can address it correctly or tell me it's a huge issue have Audi problem solve it. I am in Marietta. You? We need to talk!!

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Old 11-20-2014, 12:19 PM   #15
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Well, after 14 weeks in the shop and $7,000 I have my s8 back all repaired....what a story!!! For those who helped me here is what had to be done (the cliff notes version for us older guys. see original post here for fault codes:

- complete replacement of all fuel injectors (10)
- replaced 2 O2 sensors (front), there are 8 total on this beast
- ignition colis replaced (all)
- valve covers were/gaskets leaking into ignition coils-engine oil soaked
- vacum hose leak, intake air leak ( upper intake breather hose crack, in valley)
- engine mount wiring harness (passenger side motor mount faulty harness)

The good news is, the dealer JEllis Marietta ate all the labor costs due to length of time it took to fix the car properly (45 hours!!). Even with AOA involved it was a long, complicated process. So my out of pocket was parts only ($3k). Could have been much worse.

I am pleased to report that the vehicle has never run better. Smoother, faster, and a pure joy to have her back. Even as painful as it was. Gotta give credit to JEllis, they stepped up! I say this as long as the CEL doesn't come on for at least 1,000 miles!@#$%^&*

Thanks again everyone who helped.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:55 AM   #16
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Jeez $7K. That is eye watering.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:55 PM   #17
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Sounds like they just threw parts at it till the problem went away; would be curious to hear what the actual issue was.
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Old 12-08-2014, 04:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Sounds like they just threw parts at it till the problem went away; would be curious to hear what the actual issue was.
Well I had the car for about 2 weeks and 255 miles and CEL back on….what's really a joke is that JE Ellis says they have to do what AofA tells them to do. So this next conversation ought to be interesting when I tell them let's get all 3 parties on the phone and have a chat about this!@#$%^&*.

Happiness was brief!

Codes were as follows:

- 0008585- Bank 2: System too Lean at Idle P2189-004
006435- Check DTC Memory of ECU 2 P1923- 008

- 004229- Mixture Regulation, Bank 4; Range 1 P1085- 004 Lean Limit Exceeded-Intermittent

02 sensors in front replaced (there are 8 on an S8), they said MAF was ok, vacuum hose leak was repaired, new injectors, intake manifold, coils, plugs, breather hose, gaskets, seals, carbon clean done 12 months ago.

Based on everything I have read on the site here, I will have them check for leaks in exhaust around down pipe flanges, fuel filter, oil cap and dip stick, intake manifold bolt torque, throttle body and MAF cleaning, SAI for failure (don't even know what that is). Other than this I have no idea what it could be.

Only think I noticed before CEL came on was a strong coolant smell outside the car. The reservoir and overflow vent is right under the hood in front of driver side so maybe not relevant.

3 days and no word on what's wrong……and they give me an A6 to drive? Ugh, It drives like a Lexus vs an S8! LOL (happy to have a loaner however).
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Old 12-08-2014, 04:55 AM   #19
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If it still runs good with the light on, carry the Harbor Freight $40.00 cheapo scan tool and reset it and drive the car like mad. No use slumming it in an A6 when you have an S8.

You definitely needed the valve cover gasket replaced with the oil puddles in the spark plug basins. Just had that with my son's TT inline 4.

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Old 12-08-2014, 04:56 AM   #20
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I worked at that Jim Ellis dealership as a porter during summer in college--great people over there. I can't remember the Service lead for Audi [Mike maybe? Shorter guy] but he was a great guy if he is still there and their mechanics are competent. In fact, several of the guys went over to EuroTech to work for Brian during my tenure there. Good luck and keep us posted. From my experience [I bought 2 cars from there as well] they are more reputable than the other VW/Audi shops in Atlanta.
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