Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's = GARBAGE
12-05-2014, 09:50 AM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's = GARBAGE
Hey guys,
Wanted to report back in like I said I would with my review on the Pilot Sport A/S 3's. I was one of the first to have these tires on the forums so I can report a real world usage with over 20k miles on them. For the record I've owned two A8's and went through numerous different sets of tires. These tires were put on my 2005 A8.
Tire History from when I first purchased the car to current
Pirelli P-Zero Nero (summer)
Michelin Pilot A/S - 33k miles
Michelin Pilot A/S + 35k miles
Continental DWS 40k miles
Michelin Pilot A/S 3's - 21k miles
That is the history of tires I've had on my 2005 A8. Always had them properly inflated and rotated at the correct intervals. I knew that the Pilot Sport's are a softer tire vs. the nitto motivos, yokohomas, and continentals I've used although these tires are rated at 45k miles. Had the Michelin Pilot Sport 3's put on in July of this year. My father drives the 05 for work and puts on a lot of miles, almost 30k this year alone. None if it is hard driving, mostly highway at standard highway speeds. The tires were normally rotated and inflated but seemed to be wearing quick. Winter hit and these tires were TERRIBLE, absolute crap in the snow. Not only were they bad in the snow for me but they also hydroplaned and weren't great in wet weather either. Comfort wise they were comfortable and relatively quiet though.
Long story short the tires were an absolute disappointment. Infuriating actually considering I had to spend numerous hours rotating these tires, having them installed and all the time spent purchasing/researching. I went to my local Discount Tire and they also confirmed my speculation that they wore way too quickly and were garbage. This shouldn't happen on a tire at $250+/- per tire!!! Discount tire gave me a refund of $115 per tire and I just picked up a new set of Yokohoma YK580's. I will report back on my review of these. I know my cars, and the tires I put on them but these Michelin's lost me as a customer. After owning almost every iteration of the Pilot Sports, I really don't see the actual need or purpose of the Pilot Sport line. They are supposed to be a good A/S tire that a customer can use in all seasons and have decent life out of them. Considering they aren't great in the summer or even decent in the winter and on top of that the tread just dissipates off these tires, I don't see one situation in which I'd recommend these tires over any other A/S tire, even if A/S 3's were at or lower price than other brands, you don't receive any benefit with these. I would rather purchase the Nitto Motivos, Continental's or Yokohomas; at least these tire brands get their tires near the recommended mileage warranty and provide the same amount of comfort and performance at a lower cost.
Wanted to report back in like I said I would with my review on the Pilot Sport A/S 3's. I was one of the first to have these tires on the forums so I can report a real world usage with over 20k miles on them. For the record I've owned two A8's and went through numerous different sets of tires. These tires were put on my 2005 A8.
Tire History from when I first purchased the car to current
Pirelli P-Zero Nero (summer)
Michelin Pilot A/S - 33k miles
Michelin Pilot A/S + 35k miles
Continental DWS 40k miles
Michelin Pilot A/S 3's - 21k miles
That is the history of tires I've had on my 2005 A8. Always had them properly inflated and rotated at the correct intervals. I knew that the Pilot Sport's are a softer tire vs. the nitto motivos, yokohomas, and continentals I've used although these tires are rated at 45k miles. Had the Michelin Pilot Sport 3's put on in July of this year. My father drives the 05 for work and puts on a lot of miles, almost 30k this year alone. None if it is hard driving, mostly highway at standard highway speeds. The tires were normally rotated and inflated but seemed to be wearing quick. Winter hit and these tires were TERRIBLE, absolute crap in the snow. Not only were they bad in the snow for me but they also hydroplaned and weren't great in wet weather either. Comfort wise they were comfortable and relatively quiet though.
Long story short the tires were an absolute disappointment. Infuriating actually considering I had to spend numerous hours rotating these tires, having them installed and all the time spent purchasing/researching. I went to my local Discount Tire and they also confirmed my speculation that they wore way too quickly and were garbage. This shouldn't happen on a tire at $250+/- per tire!!! Discount tire gave me a refund of $115 per tire and I just picked up a new set of Yokohoma YK580's. I will report back on my review of these. I know my cars, and the tires I put on them but these Michelin's lost me as a customer. After owning almost every iteration of the Pilot Sports, I really don't see the actual need or purpose of the Pilot Sport line. They are supposed to be a good A/S tire that a customer can use in all seasons and have decent life out of them. Considering they aren't great in the summer or even decent in the winter and on top of that the tread just dissipates off these tires, I don't see one situation in which I'd recommend these tires over any other A/S tire, even if A/S 3's were at or lower price than other brands, you don't receive any benefit with these. I would rather purchase the Nitto Motivos, Continental's or Yokohomas; at least these tire brands get their tires near the recommended mileage warranty and provide the same amount of comfort and performance at a lower cost.
Last edited by Brozee; 12-05-2014 at 09:55 AM.
12-07-2014, 06:41 AM
#3
AudiWorld Senior Member
The DWS Conti tires are as good in the rain as the best tires for rain Ive ever had (Bridgestone Pole Position 950) and theyre the best tire in the snow for an all seaon tire that I have ever had so I know they performed well for you. And theyre cheap. And they outlived your other tires. So riddle me this...why did you go back to Pilot Sports ?
12-07-2014, 09:48 AM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
I have to disagree and not call them garbage. However, there is some disappointment.
When I bought the car in Downers Grove, Illinois and drove home in December, 2005, I stopped at Tire Rack and bought a set of Michelin Pilot A/S's and had them installed on the 19" rims. They were put in bags since I bought a set of Michelin X-Ice 17" tires and had them put on cheap alloy rims and had them installed on the car. IIRC these tires had a treadwear rating of 400 and I got 55000 miles out of them.
Next set were Michelin Pilot A/S+ that also had a wear rating of 400 that I got 45000 miles before they were shot.
This past May I bought a set of Michelin Pilot A/S 3's with a treadwear number of 500 and I have 20000 miles on them. They seem to be wearing out as if I will only see 40-45000 miles on them.
I never rotate my tires per se, but I do have my X-Ice tires for the winter and I mark and rotate front to rear all tires each time I swap them out. Note that my X-Ice tires were bought nine years ago and I still use them. They still have their snipes although this may be the last year for them. I have about 50,000 miles on them.
Funny thing is that I NEVER have had an alignment performed on the car. The tire store will perform a "free alignment check" and I always tell them DON'T ADJUST ANYTHING. If something is off, fine, tell me and I will take care of and return to have it aligned. On my set of Pilot A/S+ tires, they said "We cant check it as you have a worn Ball joint. $199 to replace". I saw the play myself and said fine, I'll drive as-is. I bought a TRW ball joint for $75.00 and replaced it myself using a dial caliper to measure thread position exactly. Installed the new one and it tracked perfectly. Next alignment check showed alignment within spec as well. My tires seem to wear evenly across the tread.
I guess what I wanted to say is that while the newest tires performed well for me on rain, dry pavement and my little speed run at Bonneville, the higher treadwear rating does not seem to be justified. Of course, 170 MPH on the salt flats might contribute to wear not to mention several 150 MPH blasts on the highways during our 7700 mile road trip.
Also, the Pilot A/S+ tires were tested into the 150 MPH range many times after I had the speed limiter blown out. I guess that's why you see tires replaced a lot during NASCAR races....
Keep in mind, while the A/S's are called "All Season" tires, They are not meant for heavy snow or ice conditions, That's why I have the winter tires. My son's TT came with an extra set of wheels and tires for the different seasons as well. The Pilot A/S whatevers are fine until late November around here and then I usually do the tire swap around turkey day. Amazing performance out of true winter tires versus All Season tires. Stopping distance on snow and even ice is way better.
When I bought the car in Downers Grove, Illinois and drove home in December, 2005, I stopped at Tire Rack and bought a set of Michelin Pilot A/S's and had them installed on the 19" rims. They were put in bags since I bought a set of Michelin X-Ice 17" tires and had them put on cheap alloy rims and had them installed on the car. IIRC these tires had a treadwear rating of 400 and I got 55000 miles out of them.
Next set were Michelin Pilot A/S+ that also had a wear rating of 400 that I got 45000 miles before they were shot.
This past May I bought a set of Michelin Pilot A/S 3's with a treadwear number of 500 and I have 20000 miles on them. They seem to be wearing out as if I will only see 40-45000 miles on them.
I never rotate my tires per se, but I do have my X-Ice tires for the winter and I mark and rotate front to rear all tires each time I swap them out. Note that my X-Ice tires were bought nine years ago and I still use them. They still have their snipes although this may be the last year for them. I have about 50,000 miles on them.
Funny thing is that I NEVER have had an alignment performed on the car. The tire store will perform a "free alignment check" and I always tell them DON'T ADJUST ANYTHING. If something is off, fine, tell me and I will take care of and return to have it aligned. On my set of Pilot A/S+ tires, they said "We cant check it as you have a worn Ball joint. $199 to replace". I saw the play myself and said fine, I'll drive as-is. I bought a TRW ball joint for $75.00 and replaced it myself using a dial caliper to measure thread position exactly. Installed the new one and it tracked perfectly. Next alignment check showed alignment within spec as well. My tires seem to wear evenly across the tread.
I guess what I wanted to say is that while the newest tires performed well for me on rain, dry pavement and my little speed run at Bonneville, the higher treadwear rating does not seem to be justified. Of course, 170 MPH on the salt flats might contribute to wear not to mention several 150 MPH blasts on the highways during our 7700 mile road trip.
Also, the Pilot A/S+ tires were tested into the 150 MPH range many times after I had the speed limiter blown out. I guess that's why you see tires replaced a lot during NASCAR races....
Keep in mind, while the A/S's are called "All Season" tires, They are not meant for heavy snow or ice conditions, That's why I have the winter tires. My son's TT came with an extra set of wheels and tires for the different seasons as well. The Pilot A/S whatevers are fine until late November around here and then I usually do the tire swap around turkey day. Amazing performance out of true winter tires versus All Season tires. Stopping distance on snow and even ice is way better.
12-07-2014, 11:41 AM
#5
AudiWorld Super User
Overlapping to your input
Having run both PS2 Summers and A/S +'s on the W12 I can report basically straight 20K on the summers and around 30K on the A/S's. My driving is majority suburban and stoplight to stoplight, with 450HP in mind. On the PS2 summers, I got basically the same wear on those as I did on the Dunlop SportMaxx's from set #1. Car is back on SportMaxx's since they came on another set of complete factory take off's I bought some years back at a compelling price. Having run both Michelins and Dunlops on the summer side, I kind of net to the Dunlops since I can't feel the difference honestly, and the Dunlops were less. The Dunlops have gone up in price more though since my last purchase/comparo. I run the PS3's on the Mini now, which feel basically the same as the PSS's it had before, with tread life TBD on the PS3's. Not that high on the Mini S either from the PSS set. Yet that is a way lighter vehicle than a W12 porker, though puts it eager turbo torque down FWD only with a stick and last of the Mini mechanical LSD's.
On the Michelin A/S side, still on my short list, but honestly I get there roughly at the intersection of all of Brozee's post, Mister Bally's reply and TireRack's testing. The testing short version seems to be it is in the same league as a performance summer. And honestly, having gone back to back from PS2's to AS+'s, I could basically feel little honest difference there either, in my D3. The test results arguably now confirm that level of road performance more or less with the AS 3's. Well, nobody rides for free as they say, so I rough justice equate that to summer type materials and rubber with a nod to a highway oriented A/S tread and maybe modestly more tread life.
But having used the A/S+ in snow, they were just not up to the job. Scary in some cases, like the long ABS lock up icy or hardpack stops or the easy to slide if you drove with anything but the egg under shoe type touch. But honestly, the tread pattern pretty much tells me that. At least on the W12, they are barely workable with snow on the ground, and driven ultra conservatively with no real world surprises. For me though, like Mister Bally I use dedicated snows. Thus, the AS+ approach in this vein is only to deal with getting caught in unexpected snow at the edges of the season. I'm not trying to make it a true 4 season choice. In Tahoe, snow can be as early as Oct 1 and as late as the end of April, but in practice I only switch to snows if I am driving up into known snow type weather in late fall; otherwise they go on about now. I push that change point if I have A/S's on the car. My snows are now on and are Pirelli Sottozero's in a 255 oddball Panamera fitment--cheaper than the native Audi fitment TireRack and Pirelli gouge for with the Bentley fitment crossover.
My net is I will probably abandon dedicated summers in favor of the PS3 next go around. But I'm doing it figuring it is close enough to be thought of as a summer yet has a tread (barely) good enough to get me through Tahoe chain control and tip toeing home if I get caught unexpectedly in the shoulder season mountain weather. Michelins are typically strong rain performers too, which is my 95% late fall, winter and early Spring weather in the SF Bay Area...between droughts. My runner up would be a Dunlop DWS which obviously has the better tread/traction for light snow if I wanted to back off the winter tire cut over, but not the same performance league as the AS3 and not necessarily the obvious choice for straight winter on pavement rain use. On our Q5, something like the DWS or some Pirelli A/S flavors closer to light SUV/crossover stuff would be a pretty easy choice. But its ultimate performance is not in even close the same league as the D3, and still wouldn't be handling wise even if it were an SQ.
On the Michelin A/S side, still on my short list, but honestly I get there roughly at the intersection of all of Brozee's post, Mister Bally's reply and TireRack's testing. The testing short version seems to be it is in the same league as a performance summer. And honestly, having gone back to back from PS2's to AS+'s, I could basically feel little honest difference there either, in my D3. The test results arguably now confirm that level of road performance more or less with the AS 3's. Well, nobody rides for free as they say, so I rough justice equate that to summer type materials and rubber with a nod to a highway oriented A/S tread and maybe modestly more tread life.
But having used the A/S+ in snow, they were just not up to the job. Scary in some cases, like the long ABS lock up icy or hardpack stops or the easy to slide if you drove with anything but the egg under shoe type touch. But honestly, the tread pattern pretty much tells me that. At least on the W12, they are barely workable with snow on the ground, and driven ultra conservatively with no real world surprises. For me though, like Mister Bally I use dedicated snows. Thus, the AS+ approach in this vein is only to deal with getting caught in unexpected snow at the edges of the season. I'm not trying to make it a true 4 season choice. In Tahoe, snow can be as early as Oct 1 and as late as the end of April, but in practice I only switch to snows if I am driving up into known snow type weather in late fall; otherwise they go on about now. I push that change point if I have A/S's on the car. My snows are now on and are Pirelli Sottozero's in a 255 oddball Panamera fitment--cheaper than the native Audi fitment TireRack and Pirelli gouge for with the Bentley fitment crossover.
My net is I will probably abandon dedicated summers in favor of the PS3 next go around. But I'm doing it figuring it is close enough to be thought of as a summer yet has a tread (barely) good enough to get me through Tahoe chain control and tip toeing home if I get caught unexpectedly in the shoulder season mountain weather. Michelins are typically strong rain performers too, which is my 95% late fall, winter and early Spring weather in the SF Bay Area...between droughts. My runner up would be a Dunlop DWS which obviously has the better tread/traction for light snow if I wanted to back off the winter tire cut over, but not the same performance league as the AS3 and not necessarily the obvious choice for straight winter on pavement rain use. On our Q5, something like the DWS or some Pirelli A/S flavors closer to light SUV/crossover stuff would be a pretty easy choice. But its ultimate performance is not in even close the same league as the D3, and still wouldn't be handling wise even if it were an SQ.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 12-07-2014 at 11:57 AM.
12-08-2014, 09:45 AM
#6
AudiWorld Member
Not precisely on point, but I recently installed A/S 3's on my 1985 911 specifically for the purpose of dry performance in a broader range of temperatures than possible with summer performance tires, and I am satisfied with the result. A couple of times so far this winter I have had it out with temperatures in the high teens or low twenties and they feel secure and predictable when pushed hard, whereas summer tires would have been like hockey pucks. I took it out once in very heavy rain as an experiment and the grip was great.
I don't care about noise--it's a 911--nor do I ever expect to be in any snow whatsoever, so it was a good choice for my situation, particularly since there aren't many modern summer performance tires available in the necessary size.
On the other hand, I did not put A/S 3's on my A8 because the A8 will see some light snow, and opinions I respect from this group raised issues relating to snow suitability. Instead, the A8 now rides on Yokohama Advan Sport A/S which I am extremely happy with, although I have yet to encounter snow. We'll see. Mike
I don't care about noise--it's a 911--nor do I ever expect to be in any snow whatsoever, so it was a good choice for my situation, particularly since there aren't many modern summer performance tires available in the necessary size.
On the other hand, I did not put A/S 3's on my A8 because the A8 will see some light snow, and opinions I respect from this group raised issues relating to snow suitability. Instead, the A8 now rides on Yokohama Advan Sport A/S which I am extremely happy with, although I have yet to encounter snow. We'll see. Mike
12-08-2014, 11:39 AM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
The DWS Conti tires are as good in the rain as the best tires for rain Ive ever had (Bridgestone Pole Position 950) and theyre the best tire in the snow for an all seaon tire that I have ever had so I know they performed well for you. And theyre cheap. And they outlived your other tires. So riddle me this...why did you go back to Pilot Sports ?
Trending Topics
12-09-2014, 02:46 PM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
I just replaced my Sport Pilot AS+ tires after 26K miles of service. My tires had inner edge wear but I had all the upper control arm bushings replaced the past January so I'm sure that caused the wear. I probably could have gotten to 30k if they were evenly worn.
I replaced the Pilot AS+ with the AS3. I've been running them for about a month now and I like them as far as the level of noise and the way they handle. I guess only time will tell on how long they last. I think running 20 inch ultra high performance tire with W12 power and weight is not a recipe for long lasting tires. I'm an aggressive driver to boot so I won't get disappointed by only getting 25-30k mileage. I was going to try a set of the Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S but they were not available at the time I needed them. I might try them the next set.
Brozee, Michelin has always had soft sidewalls. They are a PITA to dismount because of a tight bead and soft sidewall.
I replaced the Pilot AS+ with the AS3. I've been running them for about a month now and I like them as far as the level of noise and the way they handle. I guess only time will tell on how long they last. I think running 20 inch ultra high performance tire with W12 power and weight is not a recipe for long lasting tires. I'm an aggressive driver to boot so I won't get disappointed by only getting 25-30k mileage. I was going to try a set of the Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S but they were not available at the time I needed them. I might try them the next set.
Brozee, Michelin has always had soft sidewalls. They are a PITA to dismount because of a tight bead and soft sidewall.
01-29-2015, 12:26 PM
#9
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes
on
20 Posts
Brozee,
I came across your post on the AS3. I have them on my 2012 Audi A8L and they are the worst lasting tires ever! Even with the 255/45R19 tires they wore fast with rears almost at wear bars at 18k miles and the front at 50%. I dont rotate because of vibration issues and other thing arising and funny handling after I do rotation. I do alot of driving so I just keep the wheels/tires in same position and they wear evenly with good alingment. Despite that the AS3 are lousy. The previous Continental Contiprocontacts were far better and lasted 35k miles with even wear and no rotations. Even on the older 2006 Audi A8L I had before that had many sets of tires that lasted 30k plus miles without rotation.
I came across your post on the AS3. I have them on my 2012 Audi A8L and they are the worst lasting tires ever! Even with the 255/45R19 tires they wore fast with rears almost at wear bars at 18k miles and the front at 50%. I dont rotate because of vibration issues and other thing arising and funny handling after I do rotation. I do alot of driving so I just keep the wheels/tires in same position and they wear evenly with good alingment. Despite that the AS3 are lousy. The previous Continental Contiprocontacts were far better and lasted 35k miles with even wear and no rotations. Even on the older 2006 Audi A8L I had before that had many sets of tires that lasted 30k plus miles without rotation.
Last edited by Baloo588; 01-29-2015 at 12:40 PM.
01-29-2015, 12:55 PM
#10
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Brozee,
I came across your post on the AS3. I have them on my 2012 Audi A8L and they are the worst lasting tires ever! Even with the 255/45R19 tires they wore fast with rears almost at wear bars at 18k miles and the front at 50%. I dont rotate because of vibration issues and other thing arising and funny handling after I do rotation. I do alot of driving so I just keep the wheels/tires in same position and they wear evenly with good alingment. Despite that the AS3 are lousy. The previous Continental Contiprocontacts were far better and lasted 35k miles with even wear and no rotations. Even on the older 2006 Audi A8L I had before that had many sets of tires that lasted 30k plus miles without rotation.
I came across your post on the AS3. I have them on my 2012 Audi A8L and they are the worst lasting tires ever! Even with the 255/45R19 tires they wore fast with rears almost at wear bars at 18k miles and the front at 50%. I dont rotate because of vibration issues and other thing arising and funny handling after I do rotation. I do alot of driving so I just keep the wheels/tires in same position and they wear evenly with good alingment. Despite that the AS3 are lousy. The previous Continental Contiprocontacts were far better and lasted 35k miles with even wear and no rotations. Even on the older 2006 Audi A8L I had before that had many sets of tires that lasted 30k plus miles without rotation.
Try out the yoko's or the Nitto Motivo's, or even the DWS; although they don't last as long, for long life and a good quality tire. Take it from someone who has tried them all, literally.
I just replaced my Sport Pilot AS+ tires after 26K miles of service. My tires had inner edge wear but I had all the upper control arm bushings replaced the past January so I'm sure that caused the wear. I probably could have gotten to 30k if they were evenly worn.
I replaced the Pilot AS+ with the AS3. I've been running them for about a month now and I like them as far as the level of noise and the way they handle. I guess only time will tell on how long they last. I think running 20 inch ultra high performance tire with W12 power and weight is not a recipe for long lasting tires. I'm an aggressive driver to boot so I won't get disappointed by only getting 25-30k mileage. I was going to try a set of the Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S but they were not available at the time I needed them. I might try them the next set.
Brozee, Michelin has always had soft sidewalls. They are a PITA to dismount because of a tight bead and soft sidewall.
I replaced the Pilot AS+ with the AS3. I've been running them for about a month now and I like them as far as the level of noise and the way they handle. I guess only time will tell on how long they last. I think running 20 inch ultra high performance tire with W12 power and weight is not a recipe for long lasting tires. I'm an aggressive driver to boot so I won't get disappointed by only getting 25-30k mileage. I was going to try a set of the Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S but they were not available at the time I needed them. I might try them the next set.
Brozee, Michelin has always had soft sidewalls. They are a PITA to dismount because of a tight bead and soft sidewall.
