MP4.2+6.0

Ceramic brake PADS not equal to ceramic brake rotors, which are the core of "ceramic brakes." Ceramic brakes use a composite/non iron rotor, and actually use a more conventional organic pad. Ceramic rotors literally cost thousands of dollars, each!

Ceramic pads on the other hand are just a single part alternative in an overall brake system. They price from somewhat below OE/dealer to around the same price. They can offer lower dust and may have feel similar to OE. But, if they have various consistencies they can get to where they are almost too "slippery" on the rotor and don't have optimal feel and/or require more pedal force. I use them, but also try to choose carefully.

mishar

Prices are going down: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-2014-Genuine-Audi-R8-Ceramic-Brakes-Set-Complete-/181564885359?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a461c496f
This guy had them even cheaper (and better) few years ago.

Galco

The idea discussed here is a full ceramic breaks retrofit. Ceramic rotors, upgraded and retrofitted multi-piston calipers along with necessary brackets, dust shields, etc. Ceramic rotors can cost as much as $4K each, new. This is the same type of brakes that are used in Formula 1 racing. So apples and oranges. The pads you purchased for your S4 have ceramic composites in them, and use steel rotors.

Hope this helps....

mishar

It's interesting that they are using floating calipers for rears: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-RS5-Rear-370mm-Carbon-Ceramic-Brakes-Original-NEW/281170229724?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3D1413ed5580f84ad8b2216305c1217a25%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D281102015479

MP4.2+6.0

Having looked at it a lot, I think the rears are essentially the "regular" rear set up, basically with a bracket change to get to 356mm rotors and some kind of possible casting swap on the caliper. The rotors are 28mm wide in ceramic, vs. (335 x) 22 in S8/W12 cast iron, so it is a little more complicated than that. BUT wait, in the parts bin we never even see here is the "special vehicle (armoured)." That one uses a 356 x 28mm rotor, conventional, and with the same std. D3 type rear caliper. What the rears are NOT is the R8 set up. The R8 rears are a 356 x 32mm rotor, and use a four piston fixed caliper Brembo set up, again bolted right to the hub area without a bracket. Given both the C5 RS6 set up and the RS5 set up I have researched, it would not surprise me if there is an offset shift too compared to other Audis that are inherently FWD rooted instead of rear/mid. The further killer is the R8 uses a tacked on auxiliary parking brake caliper that also acts on the rotor, instead of the more normal integrated set up like "normal" Audis, and then you have to think through the whole rear brake wear detection set up--parking brake piston position related on D3 vs. simple sacrificial wear sensor based on R8 in back.

The parts numbers don't all line up just right, but net I think the rear ceramic is basically just borrowing the "armoured" conventional caliper design, which itself is just some bracketry, maybe some other caliper body/casting the OES uses in other apps., and the ceramic rotor that got sized width wise in the "armoured" rear parts bin direction instead of the R8 rear direction.

For another deep dive point I also found it interesting/odd that Audi is not very consistent on front to back rotor sizing. Thus you can find the Phaeton steel pig down at 360mm on the fronts with a W12 at 420HP, but w/ same rears as the Audi S8/W12. If anything given the body weight pork "spreads" across both axles, you might expect a bit more bias toward the rear. Yet on ceramic rotors in the "factory" set up D3 world they go the other way and marginally reduce the front, but increase the back. Again, I see it on the "armoured" where the "armour" is mostly body related and spreads across the axles. But then, it seems like parts bin practicalities took over and the final ceramic sizes kind of fell out. The front somewhat greater uniqueness may have fallen out of the then development stage work on the yet to be intro'ed R8, and the calipers, rotors, etc. do interchange there as I've said--with a bracket on the D3 and direct bolt up to (larger) hub/knuckle on the R8 I think.

Bigger picture for the conversion ideas, a bunch of the ancillary stuff can be dealt with that can sometimes make these hard. Like on the Q5/B8 type brake ideas that borrow from the RS5, you also need different brake lines in front, and the hub offset of the RS5 makes the rear conversion really hard and often mis-documented. On the D3, the hose bolt up seems to be in the same place and also comes off an auxiliary metal tube (unlike the RS5 approach), and the pad wear sensor appears plug and play too with the std. D3 connection point, even though the sensors are distinct parts instead of embedded in the pad material.

On the D3 I'm focused more in the front since that is where all of the greater braking forces, meaningfully nicer calipers and big weight reductions are. The rears are much more marginal on the weight delta from what I have figured out, and the hydraulics are of course essentially the same very simple (and tried and true) stuff. Earlier, I found you couldn't source the rear ceramic brake system pads from U.S. dealers (since it doesn't tie to the R8 like in front). But I have since found the other brand name supplier part numbers, availability and (non- issue) pricing via places as easy as rockauto.com. Last, as mentioned earlier the D3 ceramic front stuff is almost entirely re usable on a current gen. R8, while the D3 ceramic rears appears to be much more a dead end interchange wise.

Georgi_Kirov

Hi Guys,

do you know if there is somebody who downgraded from a ceramic Audi S8 D3 brakes to cast iron brakes? Do you know what parts were changed and if there was a software upgrade/change?

Any links on such a downgrade are much appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

MP4.2+6.0

At least on the main English language A8 boards. You might find a few posts about it with R8 or Porsche owners who track and don't like cost of ceramic parts replacements, but it isn't A8 specific. R8 front set up and D3 A8 set up are almost the same, mostly varying with D3's using a bracket to bolt the caliper to the hub area, while on R8's the caliper bolts directly to the hub area with no additional bracket.

Briefly, yes there is a software setting change. Can be done with VCDS; affects wiping function ceramic systems have for rain, and I'm not sure what else. You need all the physical parts--calipers with brackets, rotors, etc. OE fitment would also be to use the system correct splash guards, and at least front calipers probably need that changed anyway given the caliper shape and size differences. In front the hose is longest on ceramics and somewhat shorter on each of 385mm and 360mm set ups. The hose bracket and metal connecting tube at the caliper are different too. In the rear, although the caliper and electric parking brake are essentially the same; you need at least the mounting bracket and the outer (longer) hose. I don't remember if the rear rotor is thicker with ceramics (like in front) that then also requires the caliper itself. Easiest way to do it is find a used set of complete calipers and then just buy new rotors pads and hoses. But again, this is a pretty unexplored change. If you do it, be sure to use at least the baseline conventional set up used for your motor (for example the 385mm's in front for W12's and S8's).

If BTW this has to do with cost of pads being too much, there are now some aftermarket brand name pads out there for a fair amount less than the Audi ones cost. You can get replacement rotor rings too if those are badly worn, though they are still way more money than new cast rotors.

-Treser-

I am living in New Zealand and a very happy owner of a S8 V10 with ceramic brakes. The pads at the rear need to be changed. I asked the Audi stealership in Auckland for the price for the part number 4E0698451A and they ask $1250 for the 4 pads at the rear brakes.

I am reading in this topic several comments that these pads are of a organic material type and can be bought from other aftermarket brands.

As I not want to take any risks with these awesome ceramic brakes by installing the wrong brake pads I first tried looking for the original brake pads from a much more affordable German e-bay seller. Unfortunately this seller has run out of stock and the original brake pads are not available anymore.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-Audi-RS6-4F-Keramikbremse-Bremsbelage-Bremse-hinten-4E0698451A-/322044217012?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=yIXUjygMFFDseKzpq%252B9DDPnOG0Q%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Does anyone know what the brand is of the original rear pads for the ceramic brake setup?
The only sign on them I can recognize is a big U printed on them. See the e-bay picture at the above link.

And does anyone know or has any personal experience what pads of another brand I can order that will work perfectly in combination with the ceramic rotors.

I had a look at rockauto.com but when I search for the part number nothing comes up. Also looking into all pads available for the S8 V10 2007 there are no pads that look similar to the ones I have fitted on my car.

@gedis080 you wrote "for example, what i have on my S8:
front brake pads for ceramic brake discs TRW GDB1660 - ~55USD
rear brake pads for ceramic brake discs FERODO FDB1655 - ~45USD"

Do I understand right that you have ceramic rotors on your S8 and you replaced the OEM pads for the Ferodo FDB1655 at the rear? What are your experiences so far?

Thanks in advance Audiworld members and keep up the great information and details you all posting. I am reading your posts for many years now and in the past I always was a active member in the many German Audi forums.
Sorry for my bad English skills as my mother tongue is Dutch/German.

Cheers from New Zealand

Mister Bally

"As I not want to take any risks with these awesome ceramic brakes by installing the wrong brake pads "

To address your statement above; only buy from an Audi dealer. That way you have recourse if something goes wrong. Any other source is a gamble/risk. That's the cost of this feature on this car.

dvs_dave

You won't have any luck looking for ceramic brake parts on a US based parts site as the ceramic brakes were never an available option in the US. You need to try a European based supplier. You could even phone up the local Audi dealer from the town you're from in Germany and get a price from them. If reasonable, have a relative or friend pick them up and mail out to you.

I know NZ is crazy expensive for anything to do with auto parts, especially European. But you know that already living there and owning an S8.

My wife is from NZ (Wellington) and when her parents come to visit they buy tons of stuff in the US to take back with them as its so much cheaper. The odd Subaru Outback and Yamaha outboard motor part has ended up in the FiL's suitcase before now.