Power steering rack replacement
09-23-2016, 10:01 AM
#1
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Power steering rack replacement
Hello All,
Back again with yet another major issue... So to keep it short, pretty sure my steering rack needs to come out. Possibly also the pump and probably smart to replace lines.
I just looked into getting the Bentley manual. Which adds another cost to this nightmare but hopefully pays me back. I don't have it yet and need to get home to put on my computer, as well as run this virtual environment for XP (annoying).
My questions are these: I was quoted 17.5 hrs to remove the engine in order to replace the power steering pump. Then read online that you just have to loosen a motor mount and remove an axle, not the whole engine and transaxle. What's the story here? Also, what's the chance my pump is ok despite having run it on the highway with no fluid in the system for five hours :/?
Will a rebuilt rack from RockAuto do the trick at 500 bucks, versus what I'm getting quoted from other sources at 1500(ish)?!
I'm going to be doing this off jack stands in my garage. Am I wholly insane for thinking I will be able to? Thanks!
Back again with yet another major issue... So to keep it short, pretty sure my steering rack needs to come out. Possibly also the pump and probably smart to replace lines.
I just looked into getting the Bentley manual. Which adds another cost to this nightmare but hopefully pays me back. I don't have it yet and need to get home to put on my computer, as well as run this virtual environment for XP (annoying).
My questions are these: I was quoted 17.5 hrs to remove the engine in order to replace the power steering pump. Then read online that you just have to loosen a motor mount and remove an axle, not the whole engine and transaxle. What's the story here? Also, what's the chance my pump is ok despite having run it on the highway with no fluid in the system for five hours :/?
Will a rebuilt rack from RockAuto do the trick at 500 bucks, versus what I'm getting quoted from other sources at 1500(ish)?!
I'm going to be doing this off jack stands in my garage. Am I wholly insane for thinking I will be able to? Thanks!
09-23-2016, 09:15 PM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
You might back up and describe symptoms. Rack failure on D3's is very low. Same w/ pumps. But yes, running pump dry does tend to screw them up, even far less than 5 hours.
Why are you thinking of changing rack? Is it definitely blown--with fluid coming out end seals for example, or steering assist only on one direction but not other, or something else saying internal rack failure. In particular, are you sure if you lost fluid it isn't just a hose? Pain in butt to change, but those are known to fail occasionally.
For pump removal, do a thorough internet/site search. Yes, IIRC you can get it out on FSI 4.2 without motor pull along lines you mention. I think it has been posted here once or twice. Or if not, look for similar posts for older Q7 4.2 or the C6 (A6) 4.2--in both cases the FSI one. I think set up is similar to the S8 V10 (also FSI with the gear drive stuff) if you find posts about that one.
At least two of us have changed racks on old Audi's before. As Mister Bally says, it is like the very first part that appears on the line is not the beginnings of the body but rather the rack. Then everything else is built around it. Not quite, but probably among the toughest mechanical removal jobs I have done--way back in C3 era. I used a rebuilt rack to do it. You might see if online dealers also sell D3 short racks (no tie rod ends) as rebuilt. But again, first be sure what the issue is you are trying to fix.
Why are you thinking of changing rack? Is it definitely blown--with fluid coming out end seals for example, or steering assist only on one direction but not other, or something else saying internal rack failure. In particular, are you sure if you lost fluid it isn't just a hose? Pain in butt to change, but those are known to fail occasionally.
For pump removal, do a thorough internet/site search. Yes, IIRC you can get it out on FSI 4.2 without motor pull along lines you mention. I think it has been posted here once or twice. Or if not, look for similar posts for older Q7 4.2 or the C6 (A6) 4.2--in both cases the FSI one. I think set up is similar to the S8 V10 (also FSI with the gear drive stuff) if you find posts about that one.
At least two of us have changed racks on old Audi's before. As Mister Bally says, it is like the very first part that appears on the line is not the beginnings of the body but rather the rack. Then everything else is built around it. Not quite, but probably among the toughest mechanical removal jobs I have done--way back in C3 era. I used a rebuilt rack to do it. You might see if online dealers also sell D3 short racks (no tie rod ends) as rebuilt. But again, first be sure what the issue is you are trying to fix.
09-24-2016, 06:15 AM
#3
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You might back up and describe symptoms. Rack failure on D3's is very low. Same w/ pumps. But yes, running pump dry does tend to screw them up, even far less than 5 hours.
Why are you thinking of changing rack? Is it definitely blown--with fluid coming out end seals for example, or steering assist only on one direction but not other, or something else saying internal rack failure. In particular, are you sure if you lost fluid it isn't just a hose? Pain in butt to change, but those are known to fail occasionally.
For pump removal, do a thorough internet/site search. Yes, IIRC you can get it out on FSI 4.2 without motor pull along lines you mention. I think it has been posted here once or twice. Or if not, look for similar posts for older Q7 4.2 or the C6 (A6) 4.2--in both cases the FSI one. I think set up is similar to the S8 V10 (also FSI with the gear drive stuff) if you find posts about that one.
At least two of us have changed racks on old Audi's before. As Mister Bally says, it is like the very first part that appears on the line is not the beginnings of the body but rather the rack. Then everything else is built around it. Not quite, but probably among the toughest mechanical removal jobs I have done--way back in C3 era. I used a rebuilt rack to do it. You might see if online dealers also sell D3 short racks (no tie rod ends) as rebuilt. But again, first be sure what the issue is you are trying to fix.
Why are you thinking of changing rack? Is it definitely blown--with fluid coming out end seals for example, or steering assist only on one direction but not other, or something else saying internal rack failure. In particular, are you sure if you lost fluid it isn't just a hose? Pain in butt to change, but those are known to fail occasionally.
For pump removal, do a thorough internet/site search. Yes, IIRC you can get it out on FSI 4.2 without motor pull along lines you mention. I think it has been posted here once or twice. Or if not, look for similar posts for older Q7 4.2 or the C6 (A6) 4.2--in both cases the FSI one. I think set up is similar to the S8 V10 (also FSI with the gear drive stuff) if you find posts about that one.
At least two of us have changed racks on old Audi's before. As Mister Bally says, it is like the very first part that appears on the line is not the beginnings of the body but rather the rack. Then everything else is built around it. Not quite, but probably among the toughest mechanical removal jobs I have done--way back in C3 era. I used a rebuilt rack to do it. You might see if online dealers also sell D3 short racks (no tie rod ends) as rebuilt. But again, first be sure what the issue is you are trying to fix.
09-24-2016, 09:00 AM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
So, step one remains to isolate problem. Sounds like leak is likely either a blown hose or a blown end seal on rack. You don't say which end of rack it is, but I will guess U.S. driver's side. Not much room to see in there--part of why work on it is very hard--but at just the right angles you still can some. You are trying to figure out if fluid is coming out from inside boot or it is a blown hose. The pressure one is the usual suspect, though I think a few have had the suction/return hose as the issue. Failure rates are low though, at least from board posts. Nothing like the C3 days where fluid gushers were a predictable event. I'm skipping past other areas BTW you need to check--cracked reservoir, issue with hoses or otherwise up front in the cooling circuit, etc.
First try another visual. Maybe just pour a can of fluid in and pray pump still works while at it. The Audi hydraulic fluid of course; if anyone put in generic Dextron type stuff in past it is already all over pump/seal wise. Then after pouring some in and motor running obviously look for where it is coming out--if pump does anything.
At some point make a decision whether to do a bit more invasive checking--for the rack end seal. To do that, pull the tie rod off the steering knuckle so it is free to move around and make work easier. Then go to inside of boot area and pry off the clamp for boot attached to the end of the rack assembly. Similar to a CV clamp, around 2" in diameter IIRC. Not a lot of clearance to get in there, but do-able just prying with the right flat screwdrivers and maybe some long needle nose pliers. Harder part is reinstalling it--from D3 specific experience. Some just use a hose worm clamp type thing as a result. And of course if you find a non factory clamp there, clue someone has been working in there already. Anyway, with clamp removed you can pull back boot. If a bunch of fluid pours out from inside, definitive rack is blown. (Same check for other side too BTW, but starting with only if you see signs of fluid oozing out to avoid hassle of clamp replacements. If just a bit, maybe manageable and you just ran out of fluid on the drive...and maybe lost pump... If that BTW, from my C5 experience I ran it for years with a little end seal leak on one side. Just added a cup or so of fluid a few times a year and had a little dripping.
If rack blown, you may find/see something obvious with end seal too. You could also take out tie rod to look further since bolt up point will be open then. Try to keep track of inner tie rod nut location to avoid throwing toe off. If you end up doing rack, it will likely need aligning anyway even with care on putting tie rods back same way.
BTW, preemptively if you are considering rack work, the hardest single work area is the combo of the hose hook ups and where the steering linkage joins it right below the steering column. It is a a nightmare right in there with about no clearance to get in, blind reaches, things on far side of where you can access, etc. You can sort of see the area from driver's side wheel well but getting hands and tools in there is hard, at least with my XL glove size hands. Similar hard access BTW for the primary two hoses, but then at least only a single item to do. Unbolting rest of rack from body is not that bad--at least from older Audi work. You may already know that typically the drill is to fully unbolt it and past out one side. On the C3 it came out on passenger side IIRC.
First try another visual. Maybe just pour a can of fluid in and pray pump still works while at it. The Audi hydraulic fluid of course; if anyone put in generic Dextron type stuff in past it is already all over pump/seal wise. Then after pouring some in and motor running obviously look for where it is coming out--if pump does anything.
At some point make a decision whether to do a bit more invasive checking--for the rack end seal. To do that, pull the tie rod off the steering knuckle so it is free to move around and make work easier. Then go to inside of boot area and pry off the clamp for boot attached to the end of the rack assembly. Similar to a CV clamp, around 2" in diameter IIRC. Not a lot of clearance to get in there, but do-able just prying with the right flat screwdrivers and maybe some long needle nose pliers. Harder part is reinstalling it--from D3 specific experience. Some just use a hose worm clamp type thing as a result. And of course if you find a non factory clamp there, clue someone has been working in there already. Anyway, with clamp removed you can pull back boot. If a bunch of fluid pours out from inside, definitive rack is blown. (Same check for other side too BTW, but starting with only if you see signs of fluid oozing out to avoid hassle of clamp replacements. If just a bit, maybe manageable and you just ran out of fluid on the drive...and maybe lost pump... If that BTW, from my C5 experience I ran it for years with a little end seal leak on one side. Just added a cup or so of fluid a few times a year and had a little dripping.
If rack blown, you may find/see something obvious with end seal too. You could also take out tie rod to look further since bolt up point will be open then. Try to keep track of inner tie rod nut location to avoid throwing toe off. If you end up doing rack, it will likely need aligning anyway even with care on putting tie rods back same way.
BTW, preemptively if you are considering rack work, the hardest single work area is the combo of the hose hook ups and where the steering linkage joins it right below the steering column. It is a a nightmare right in there with about no clearance to get in, blind reaches, things on far side of where you can access, etc. You can sort of see the area from driver's side wheel well but getting hands and tools in there is hard, at least with my XL glove size hands. Similar hard access BTW for the primary two hoses, but then at least only a single item to do. Unbolting rest of rack from body is not that bad--at least from older Audi work. You may already know that typically the drill is to fully unbolt it and past out one side. On the C3 it came out on passenger side IIRC.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 09-24-2016 at 10:10 AM.
09-24-2016, 09:38 AM
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So, step one remains to isolate problem. Sounds like leak is likely either a blown hose or a blown end seal on rack. You don't say which end of rack it is, but I will guess U.S. driver's side. Not much room to see in there--part of why work on it is very hard--but at just the right angles you still can some. You are trying to figure out if fluid is coming out from inside boot or it is a blown hose. The pressure one is the usual suspect, though I think a few have had the suction/return hose as the issue. Failure rates are low though, at least from board posts. Nothing like the C3 days where fluid gushers were a predictable event. I'm skipping past other areas BTW you need to check--cracked reservoir, issue with hoses or otherwise up front in the cooling circuit, etc.
First try another visual. Maybe just pour a can of fluid in and pray pump still works while at it. The Audi hydraulic fluid of course; if anyone put in generic Dextron type stuff in past it is already all over pump/seal wise. Then after pouring some in and motor running obviously look for where it is coming out--if pump does anything.
At some point make a decision whether to do a bit more invasive checking--for the rack end seal. To do that, pull the tie rod off the steering knuckle so it is free to move around and make work easier. Then go to inside of boot area and pry off the clamp for boot attached to the end of the rack assembly. Similar to a CV clamp, around 2" in diameter IIRC. Not a lot of clearance to get in there, but do-able just prying with the right flat screwdrivers and maybe some long needle nose pliers. Harder part is reinstalling it--from D3 specific experience. Some just use a hose worm clamp type thing as a result. And of course if you find a non factory clamp there, clue someone has been working in there already. Anyway, with clamp removed you can pull back boot. If a bunch of fluid pours out from inside, definitive rack is blown. (Same check for other side too BTW, but starting with only if you see signs of fluid oozing out to avoid hassle of clamp replacements. If just a bit, maybe manageable and you just ran out of fluid on the drive...and maybe lost pump... If that BTW, from my C5 experience I ran it for years with a little end seal leak on one side. Just added a cup or so of fluid a few times a year and had a little dripping.
If rack blown, you may find/see something obvious with end seal too. You could also take out tie rod to look further since bolt up point will be open then. Try to keep track of inner tie rod nut location to avoid throwing toe off. If you end up doing rack, it will likely need aligning anyway even with care on putting tie rods back same way.
BTW, preemptively if you are considering rack work, the hardest single work area is the combo of the hose hook ups and where the steering linkage joins it right below the steering column. It is a a nightmare right in there with about no clearance to get in, blind reaches, things on far side of where you can access, etc. You can sort of see the area from driver's side wheel well but getting hands and tools in there is hard, at least with my XL glove size hands. Similar had access BTW for the primary two hoses, but then at least only a single item to do. Unbolting rest of rack from body is not that bad--at least from older Audi work. You may already know that typically the drill is to fully unbolt it and past out one side. On the C3 it came out on passenger side IIRC.
First try another visual. Maybe just pour a can of fluid in and pray pump still works while at it. The Audi hydraulic fluid of course; if anyone put in generic Dextron type stuff in past it is already all over pump/seal wise. Then after pouring some in and motor running obviously look for where it is coming out--if pump does anything.
At some point make a decision whether to do a bit more invasive checking--for the rack end seal. To do that, pull the tie rod off the steering knuckle so it is free to move around and make work easier. Then go to inside of boot area and pry off the clamp for boot attached to the end of the rack assembly. Similar to a CV clamp, around 2" in diameter IIRC. Not a lot of clearance to get in there, but do-able just prying with the right flat screwdrivers and maybe some long needle nose pliers. Harder part is reinstalling it--from D3 specific experience. Some just use a hose worm clamp type thing as a result. And of course if you find a non factory clamp there, clue someone has been working in there already. Anyway, with clamp removed you can pull back boot. If a bunch of fluid pours out from inside, definitive rack is blown. (Same check for other side too BTW, but starting with only if you see signs of fluid oozing out to avoid hassle of clamp replacements. If just a bit, maybe manageable and you just ran out of fluid on the drive...and maybe lost pump... If that BTW, from my C5 experience I ran it for years with a little end seal leak on one side. Just added a cup or so of fluid a few times a year and had a little dripping.
If rack blown, you may find/see something obvious with end seal too. You could also take out tie rod to look further since bolt up point will be open then. Try to keep track of inner tie rod nut location to avoid throwing toe off. If you end up doing rack, it will likely need aligning anyway even with care on putting tie rods back same way.
BTW, preemptively if you are considering rack work, the hardest single work area is the combo of the hose hook ups and where the steering linkage joins it right below the steering column. It is a a nightmare right in there with about no clearance to get in, blind reaches, things on far side of where you can access, etc. You can sort of see the area from driver's side wheel well but getting hands and tools in there is hard, at least with my XL glove size hands. Similar had access BTW for the primary two hoses, but then at least only a single item to do. Unbolting rest of rack from body is not that bad--at least from older Audi work. You may already know that typically the drill is to fully unbolt it and past out one side. On the C3 it came out on passenger side IIRC.
09-27-2016, 03:16 AM
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I didn't really get much further on Monday. I ordered the Bentley on CD ROM and spent my time finding an old dinosaur computer I had tucked away which happens to still run Windows XP. I'm hoping I get the disc this week and can maybe tear into more on the weekend armed with book knowledge at least. Thanks again so far, I'll report my progress, slow as it might be as time goes on.
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10-08-2016, 07:52 AM
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Ok...I've verified it's definitely a rack replace. I pulled the boot off drivers side and fluid just dumped out. So far have both inner liners out. Ujoint tied to column. Have a dumb question about centering the steering. Is this necessary considering I need to replace the rack? Also, you're correct, the Ujoint at the rack is a nightmare thus far. I can see the bolt but haven't even attempted to take it loose yet. Need square drive. Putting it back is what I'm dreading...good lord I want to slap an engineer...
10-08-2016, 09:35 AM
#9
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Ok...I've verified it's definitely a rack replace. I pulled the boot off drivers side and fluid just dumped out. So far have both inner liners out. Ujoint tied to column. Have a dumb question about centering the steering. Is this necessary considering I need to replace the rack? Also, you're correct, the Ujoint at the rack is a nightmare thus far. I can see the bolt but haven't even attempted to take it loose yet. Need square drive. Putting it back is what I'm dreading...good lord I want to slap an engineer...
To center in the "old days" I would just pull off the steering wheel via removing the big nut and move it to the right position on splined column after having steering straight ahead before I started. Audi says replace the nut each time BTW, and they aren't super expensive. Same on tie rod end retaining bolts (or other suspension bolts) you pull. Now you have to deal with the steering angle sensor (though it likely yields the same approach) and the airbag. On airbag you should be removing with battery disconnected, and definitely never cycle ignition while airbag wires are disconnected or you get a code. That can be cleared with VCDS if it happens. Also, absolutely replace the sealing washers at the hose connection banjo bolts, and expect them to be very difficult to get back in--especially the one you put on after passing bolt through hose center area but before bolting into rack threads.
A few easy tips, likely in Bentley: since you have the boot(s) off already, definitely pull the whole tie rod. At least on the driver's side. That will free up at least some access space to the core of the connections for hoses, column bolt up clamp, etc. I don't remember exactly now from when I played w/ tie rod ends, but I think it may help to pull driver's side plastic fender liner too--maybe what you were referring to but I wasn't 100% sure. Once you have done it one time, easy--10 minutes or less. Again, get the sacrificial push pins (at least 4 or 5 per side) from dealer to reassemble later. Last, while you are in here, give your upper control arms a very careful look see. I suppose you might elect to pull the pinch bolt anyway for a little more working freedom by getting arms up more, again more so on driver's side. If you do that, you can do a much better inspection on the inner control arm bushings by moving arms around their axis of flex while looking for deeper cracks. You are likely into an alignment anyway, so a better time to clean up any issues in suspension too.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 10-08-2016 at 09:51 AM.
10-08-2016, 01:24 PM
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Yes, I expect you need to center the steering. A type of area where Bentley or Audi equivalent becomes mandatory to know what you should do exactly, order of removal, any hidden fasteners, etc.
To center in the "old days" I would just pull off the steering wheel via removing the big nut and move it to the right position on splined column after having steering straight ahead before I started. Audi says replace the nut each time BTW, and they aren't super expensive. Same on tie rod end retaining bolts (or other suspension bolts) you pull. Now you have to deal with the steering angle sensor (though it likely yields the same approach) and the airbag. On airbag you should be removing with battery disconnected, and definitely never cycle ignition while airbag wires are disconnected or you get a code. That can be cleared with VCDS if it happens. Also, absolutely replace the sealing washers at the hose connection banjo bolts, and expect them to be very difficult to get back in--especially the one you put on after passing bolt through hose center area but before bolting into rack threads.
A few easy tips, likely in Bentley: since you have the boot(s) off already, definitely pull the whole tie rod. At least on the driver's side. That will free up at least some access space to the core of the connections for hoses, column bolt up clamp, etc. I don't remember exactly now from when I played w/ tie rod ends, but I think it may help to pull driver's side plastic fender liner too--maybe what you were referring to but I wasn't 100% sure. Once you have done it one time, easy--10 minutes or less. Again, get the sacrificial push pins (at least 4 or 5 per side) from dealer to reassemble later. Last, while you are in here, give your upper control arms a very careful look see. I suppose you might elect to pull the pinch bolt anyway for a little more working freedom by getting arms up more, again more so on driver's side. If you do that, you can do a much better inspection on the inner control arm bushings by moving arms around their axis of flex while looking for deeper cracks. You are likely into an alignment anyway, so a better time to clean up any issues in suspension too.
To center in the "old days" I would just pull off the steering wheel via removing the big nut and move it to the right position on splined column after having steering straight ahead before I started. Audi says replace the nut each time BTW, and they aren't super expensive. Same on tie rod end retaining bolts (or other suspension bolts) you pull. Now you have to deal with the steering angle sensor (though it likely yields the same approach) and the airbag. On airbag you should be removing with battery disconnected, and definitely never cycle ignition while airbag wires are disconnected or you get a code. That can be cleared with VCDS if it happens. Also, absolutely replace the sealing washers at the hose connection banjo bolts, and expect them to be very difficult to get back in--especially the one you put on after passing bolt through hose center area but before bolting into rack threads.
A few easy tips, likely in Bentley: since you have the boot(s) off already, definitely pull the whole tie rod. At least on the driver's side. That will free up at least some access space to the core of the connections for hoses, column bolt up clamp, etc. I don't remember exactly now from when I played w/ tie rod ends, but I think it may help to pull driver's side plastic fender liner too--maybe what you were referring to but I wasn't 100% sure. Once you have done it one time, easy--10 minutes or less. Again, get the sacrificial push pins (at least 4 or 5 per side) from dealer to reassemble later. Last, while you are in here, give your upper control arms a very careful look see. I suppose you might elect to pull the pinch bolt anyway for a little more working freedom by getting arms up more, again more so on driver's side. If you do that, you can do a much better inspection on the inner control arm bushings by moving arms around their axis of flex while looking for deeper cracks. You are likely into an alignment anyway, so a better time to clean up any issues in suspension too.