Went to buy 2008 Audi A8L, but walked away. :(
12-23-2014, 12:10 AM
#1
Went to buy 2008 Audi A8L, but walked away. :(
Wife and I drove 410-miles away (7hrs) to buy a 2008 Audi A8L 4.2L FSI that was on Autotrader. 69k miles, which seems a very young car for us. It was love at first sight, perfect in almost every way. Unfortunately, I spotted a couple problems and after some discussion, we agreed it best to walk away, at least for now. We're absolutely devastated as we fell head over heels for this car, it was to be the wife's daily driver and she was almost to tears.
We're still considering to have this car shipped to us if the problems aren't serious, but I'm not familiar enough with the 4.2L FSI V8 to know its common problems and symptoms. Wondering if any of you experts have any thoughts.
The problems I found:
1. It has some kind of oil leak. Not bad enough to have dripped onto the belly pan that I could see, and nothing on the ground, but the front timing cover is covered in a layer of oil. It's mostly around the crankshaft pulley, with the majority of it above and to the right of the pulley (but not the pulley itself), with also some coating the ledge on the bottom of the engine which I believe is the front of the oil pan. Anyone seen this before? I could only guess maybe the front crankshaft seal. If it is a front crankshaft seal, is this a big job? Did a search and haven't seen anyone mention this before. Dealer's response was, "every car here probably leaks something". I suppose if it stayed a very small leak, we would be willing to live with it (loved the car that much), but I worry a small leak can turn into a large leak over time.
2. Check engine light lit. Audi dealer wanted $150 to check for codes, but O'Reilly next door was able to check it for free. P0304 - Cylinder #4 misfire. The car did NOT have this problem when we first started it. Googled the issue and it could be a coil, plug, injector, or worst case scenario, low compression. Dealer's response was, "It's an Audi. Audi engines are finicky. Probably just some sensor got tripped." The car seemed to run and drive fine, engine felt very strong, but I detected a very tiny hint of vibration that I could feel in the steering wheel. Does engine misfire detection keep the check engine light lit even when the misfire is gone? I did wonder, is it theoretically possible that when I shut the hood with the engine running, that a sensor could have picked that up as a misfire, and will keep the check engine light lit until the code is erased? I don't know how misfire detection works on these engines.
On these cars in general, is it normal to have some valvetrain noise? It had a sound kind of like lifter tick, but not really that loud. Could only hear it with the hood open. Also, is it normal for the air suspension to run for almost 20-seconds after the car is shut off? It seemed to run for 10-seconds, pause, then run for 10 more seconds. Sounded loudest on the rear.
We're still considering to have this car shipped to us if the problems aren't serious, but I'm not familiar enough with the 4.2L FSI V8 to know its common problems and symptoms. Wondering if any of you experts have any thoughts.
The problems I found:
1. It has some kind of oil leak. Not bad enough to have dripped onto the belly pan that I could see, and nothing on the ground, but the front timing cover is covered in a layer of oil. It's mostly around the crankshaft pulley, with the majority of it above and to the right of the pulley (but not the pulley itself), with also some coating the ledge on the bottom of the engine which I believe is the front of the oil pan. Anyone seen this before? I could only guess maybe the front crankshaft seal. If it is a front crankshaft seal, is this a big job? Did a search and haven't seen anyone mention this before. Dealer's response was, "every car here probably leaks something". I suppose if it stayed a very small leak, we would be willing to live with it (loved the car that much), but I worry a small leak can turn into a large leak over time.
2. Check engine light lit. Audi dealer wanted $150 to check for codes, but O'Reilly next door was able to check it for free. P0304 - Cylinder #4 misfire. The car did NOT have this problem when we first started it. Googled the issue and it could be a coil, plug, injector, or worst case scenario, low compression. Dealer's response was, "It's an Audi. Audi engines are finicky. Probably just some sensor got tripped." The car seemed to run and drive fine, engine felt very strong, but I detected a very tiny hint of vibration that I could feel in the steering wheel. Does engine misfire detection keep the check engine light lit even when the misfire is gone? I did wonder, is it theoretically possible that when I shut the hood with the engine running, that a sensor could have picked that up as a misfire, and will keep the check engine light lit until the code is erased? I don't know how misfire detection works on these engines.
On these cars in general, is it normal to have some valvetrain noise? It had a sound kind of like lifter tick, but not really that loud. Could only hear it with the hood open. Also, is it normal for the air suspension to run for almost 20-seconds after the car is shut off? It seemed to run for 10-seconds, pause, then run for 10 more seconds. Sounded loudest on the rear.
12-23-2014, 12:27 AM
#2
AudiWorld Senior Member
Just leave it
Reading your story too me it sounds like the dealer does not give two hoots about the cars and would not give me confidence to buy from him, all his cars have leaks wtf?
I'm not familiar with the 4.2 so can't say about the leak, it may be trivial but end of the day it's meant not too.
The lifter ticking you talked about was most likely the injection system as they are quite noisy on the fsi engines.
The check engine light on would be reason enough for me not to buy the car from a dealer who can't be bothered or have the means to find out what's wrong and rectify it. It could be as simple as bad coil pack but could be like you have mentioned something far worse.
The noise from the rear is the Electronic parking brake motor going through a calibration. They don't do it all the time, and is nothing to worry about.
Keep looking you will find something better out there.
I'm not familiar with the 4.2 so can't say about the leak, it may be trivial but end of the day it's meant not too.
The lifter ticking you talked about was most likely the injection system as they are quite noisy on the fsi engines.
The check engine light on would be reason enough for me not to buy the car from a dealer who can't be bothered or have the means to find out what's wrong and rectify it. It could be as simple as bad coil pack but could be like you have mentioned something far worse.
The noise from the rear is the Electronic parking brake motor going through a calibration. They don't do it all the time, and is nothing to worry about.
Keep looking you will find something better out there.
Last edited by haggisuk; 12-23-2014 at 12:32 AM.
12-23-2014, 07:15 AM
#5
AudiWorld Senior Member
Next time you invest a 14 hour drive to look at a car you might re-consider the decision not to spend a buck at an Audi expert. For that minimum charge Vag Com hook-up you probably could have gotten a pre-purchase inspection also. Or at least enough of one that would have addressed the points of concern you mention.
Also the selling dealer might have extinguished other CELs just before you arrived. And, if that was the scenario, you did not put enough drive cycles on the car to turn the CEL back on for those other problems or for a generic scanner at O'Riley's to detect. But the Audi dealer, or an Audi independent, could have looked at the car's scan and alerted you to any recent events because everything is date and mileage stamped on the print out.
And while it might not be the case that all cars of that age leak something, my experience as a dealer for the last 20 years is that all cars of this age that I look at to buy need SOMETHING fixed. If you find a car you like in every other respect except it needs something fixed you shouldnt let the repair stop you because IF you find another that you like in every respect, it will need a different something fixed in all likelyhood.
And ,to me, even if the repair needed is an expensive one, thats OK too as long as the price I pay is reflective of the work needed. But I'm not talking about odd internal engine noises that may be this or may be that and you dont know untill you spend a ton to tear stuff apart...I mean something that is a sure diagnosis and when the repair is completed the car is as new as regards that concern.
And if you encounter a dealer who will not allow you to take the vehicle you want somewhere for a pre-purchase inspection...run the other way !
Also the selling dealer might have extinguished other CELs just before you arrived. And, if that was the scenario, you did not put enough drive cycles on the car to turn the CEL back on for those other problems or for a generic scanner at O'Riley's to detect. But the Audi dealer, or an Audi independent, could have looked at the car's scan and alerted you to any recent events because everything is date and mileage stamped on the print out.
And while it might not be the case that all cars of that age leak something, my experience as a dealer for the last 20 years is that all cars of this age that I look at to buy need SOMETHING fixed. If you find a car you like in every other respect except it needs something fixed you shouldnt let the repair stop you because IF you find another that you like in every respect, it will need a different something fixed in all likelyhood.
And ,to me, even if the repair needed is an expensive one, thats OK too as long as the price I pay is reflective of the work needed. But I'm not talking about odd internal engine noises that may be this or may be that and you dont know untill you spend a ton to tear stuff apart...I mean something that is a sure diagnosis and when the repair is completed the car is as new as regards that concern.
And if you encounter a dealer who will not allow you to take the vehicle you want somewhere for a pre-purchase inspection...run the other way !
Last edited by awdinut; 12-23-2014 at 10:40 AM.
12-23-2014, 08:18 AM
#6
AudiWorld Super User
#2 is a walk away and frankly suggests FRAUD
Wow. First, a well maintained Audi doesn't behave like that. But sleaze used car sales operations do.
Next time you check codes, check/have checked the "readiness" codes too. Readiness codes basically tell you if someone just cleared the regular codes that trigger a CEL. If those codes aren't "ready," it most likely just got cleared within the last reasonable driving cycle or so. It's what is used commonly in a smog check to spot someone playing games with code clearing devices, since they are now a dime a dozen. What I suspect may have happened is codes had been cleared before you got there--to HIDE an issue. As in, FRAUD. Then, no surprise, issue re-emerged during drive.
Don't know about the state involved BTW, but in CA you can't transfer title on a car without a good smog, which is on the seller side. And in turn a CEL is an automatic flunk, before even the get go of any actual test.
FWIW by the way all the things cited might be relatively minor to resolve, but the problem is you are dealing with someone who seems to have completely the wrong attitude and approach. You may want to switch to private party sellers in general, or (way) pay up and get to regular dealer CPO's, which will also only be the later years.
Next time you check codes, check/have checked the "readiness" codes too. Readiness codes basically tell you if someone just cleared the regular codes that trigger a CEL. If those codes aren't "ready," it most likely just got cleared within the last reasonable driving cycle or so. It's what is used commonly in a smog check to spot someone playing games with code clearing devices, since they are now a dime a dozen. What I suspect may have happened is codes had been cleared before you got there--to HIDE an issue. As in, FRAUD. Then, no surprise, issue re-emerged during drive.
Don't know about the state involved BTW, but in CA you can't transfer title on a car without a good smog, which is on the seller side. And in turn a CEL is an automatic flunk, before even the get go of any actual test.
FWIW by the way all the things cited might be relatively minor to resolve, but the problem is you are dealing with someone who seems to have completely the wrong attitude and approach. You may want to switch to private party sellers in general, or (way) pay up and get to regular dealer CPO's, which will also only be the later years.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 12-23-2014 at 08:23 AM.
12-23-2014, 08:30 AM
#7
AudiWorld Member
I would NEVER buy from a dealer that acted like that. My $.02, if you have a local dealer that you like or have bought cars from in the past, just ask him/her to go to an auction and get it for you--it's where all of the dealer cars come from anyway.
If you have a budget in mind and have ideas of what you want, the dealer can scan inventory from all over the country from Manheim, put his markup on it, and then sell it to you and have zero risk...he would also know he has a seller so just look around for reputable used car dealers in your area. Believe me, buying a car he knows he already has sold would be a drop in the bucket. Extra points if the dealer has a shop attached [where he has to be accountable for early issues] or a mechanic you already trust to take it to.
My $.02--don't ever give your money to a sleazebagg dealer like this. There are plenty of good ones out there that will treat you right.
If you have a budget in mind and have ideas of what you want, the dealer can scan inventory from all over the country from Manheim, put his markup on it, and then sell it to you and have zero risk...he would also know he has a seller so just look around for reputable used car dealers in your area. Believe me, buying a car he knows he already has sold would be a drop in the bucket. Extra points if the dealer has a shop attached [where he has to be accountable for early issues] or a mechanic you already trust to take it to.
My $.02--don't ever give your money to a sleazebagg dealer like this. There are plenty of good ones out there that will treat you right.
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12-23-2014, 09:50 AM
#8
It's not one of those "$500 down" places, but the car did come from auction. The dealership itself is completely indoors in a large warehouse in the DFW Texas area, which is another reason this car was attractive: one-owner car, always been in TX so never seen road salt. He said most of his customers are not local. Looks like he mostly deals in high-end cars, the A8L was one of the least expensive he had.
It did seem really strange that he didn't offer to have the problems fixed. He offered to sell us a warranty starting at $1600 instead. I asked him if he's suggesting I could buy the warranty, pay the $100 deductible, and get these problems fixed. All he would say is he's selling it as a good car with no problems. He wouldn't answer my question with a direct answer. Wife read into his evasiveness that he's trying to sell us a scammy warranty with so many loopholes it won't cover anything. I thought maybe he was being evasive because outright saying to have the warranty fix it would constitute warranty fraud.
He also suggested we could pay an independent inspector $250 to look at it. Not really sure what that would accomplish at this point, we've already established it has an oil leak and a CEL indicating cylinder misfire, two problems we made him very aware of, and his downplaying makes clear he's unwilling to fix. Maybe he thought an inspector would back in him in saying these things are no big deal.
@awdinut, yes, after this trip, wife and I decided we're too old to handle 14-hour drives in a single day. It seemed like no big deal at first, we used to do 10-hour drive day trips just for fun and even drove 800-miles each direction to buy a $2000 Pontiac back in my college days, but we've lost the energy for that. Next time we'll just pay a holding deposit, hire an inspector, and have the car shipped. Was just going on a coworker's advice who has had 2 or 3 cars shipped and been disappointed every time, to definitely check it out in person if at all possible.
Yes, that $150 the Audi dealer charges would have been a full pre-sale inspection, the minimum required to get them to pull codes. We were willing and ready to pay for it, but since we brought it in at 4:30pm, the service manager said there was no way they'd be able to do it same day and I remembered O'Reilly pulls codes for free and it was next door, so we just went there. We considered staying overnight to have a real pre-sale inspection done, but decided against it for several reasons. One, we didn't think it would accomplish much with the dealer, he seemed not to trust the Audi dealership, said they would be intent on "selling us something". He'd also stated he was going to sell this as a "good car" (when he brought up the warranty) and he'd made it clear whatever was found would not affect what he needed to get price-wise. We'd also borrowed a family member's car to get to TX and didn't want to keep it longer than necessary, and overall, we were exhausted, frustrated with big city rush-hour (wife got honked at 3-times, haha), and just so ready to go home. In hindsight, maybe we should have stayed the night as we really did want this car very badly, though not sure if it would have mattered because it didn't seem like he was interested in selling the car to us so much as he was interested in selling it to someone else who would overlook/ignore the problems. I'm not really familiar with the level of detail on a pre-sale inspection, would they have diagnosed the P0304 any further to determine if it's a coil, injector, or low compression? First two could be dealt with, but low compression would be a deal killer. After looking at ELSA, it appears changing a front crankshaft seal might not be that expensive. I'm almost certain that has to be what's leaking there. There aren't really any other drive accessories or hoses in the area that would be leaking like that as far as I can tell.
Main reason we want this car so badly is it's the only one we've found in the past 6-months with the color combo and minimum options we want. Awdinut, don't know if you remember, but I'd contacted you in the early summer about trying to find us a car, and we a little picky on color and options. Maybe a bit too picky?
Considering it's so hard to find the right car for us, it's really hard to give up the idea of finding a way to get this car.
It did seem really strange that he didn't offer to have the problems fixed. He offered to sell us a warranty starting at $1600 instead. I asked him if he's suggesting I could buy the warranty, pay the $100 deductible, and get these problems fixed. All he would say is he's selling it as a good car with no problems. He wouldn't answer my question with a direct answer. Wife read into his evasiveness that he's trying to sell us a scammy warranty with so many loopholes it won't cover anything. I thought maybe he was being evasive because outright saying to have the warranty fix it would constitute warranty fraud.
He also suggested we could pay an independent inspector $250 to look at it. Not really sure what that would accomplish at this point, we've already established it has an oil leak and a CEL indicating cylinder misfire, two problems we made him very aware of, and his downplaying makes clear he's unwilling to fix. Maybe he thought an inspector would back in him in saying these things are no big deal.
@awdinut, yes, after this trip, wife and I decided we're too old to handle 14-hour drives in a single day. It seemed like no big deal at first, we used to do 10-hour drive day trips just for fun and even drove 800-miles each direction to buy a $2000 Pontiac back in my college days, but we've lost the energy for that. Next time we'll just pay a holding deposit, hire an inspector, and have the car shipped. Was just going on a coworker's advice who has had 2 or 3 cars shipped and been disappointed every time, to definitely check it out in person if at all possible.
Yes, that $150 the Audi dealer charges would have been a full pre-sale inspection, the minimum required to get them to pull codes. We were willing and ready to pay for it, but since we brought it in at 4:30pm, the service manager said there was no way they'd be able to do it same day and I remembered O'Reilly pulls codes for free and it was next door, so we just went there. We considered staying overnight to have a real pre-sale inspection done, but decided against it for several reasons. One, we didn't think it would accomplish much with the dealer, he seemed not to trust the Audi dealership, said they would be intent on "selling us something". He'd also stated he was going to sell this as a "good car" (when he brought up the warranty) and he'd made it clear whatever was found would not affect what he needed to get price-wise. We'd also borrowed a family member's car to get to TX and didn't want to keep it longer than necessary, and overall, we were exhausted, frustrated with big city rush-hour (wife got honked at 3-times, haha), and just so ready to go home. In hindsight, maybe we should have stayed the night as we really did want this car very badly, though not sure if it would have mattered because it didn't seem like he was interested in selling the car to us so much as he was interested in selling it to someone else who would overlook/ignore the problems. I'm not really familiar with the level of detail on a pre-sale inspection, would they have diagnosed the P0304 any further to determine if it's a coil, injector, or low compression? First two could be dealt with, but low compression would be a deal killer. After looking at ELSA, it appears changing a front crankshaft seal might not be that expensive. I'm almost certain that has to be what's leaking there. There aren't really any other drive accessories or hoses in the area that would be leaking like that as far as I can tell.
Main reason we want this car so badly is it's the only one we've found in the past 6-months with the color combo and minimum options we want. Awdinut, don't know if you remember, but I'd contacted you in the early summer about trying to find us a car, and we a little picky on color and options. Maybe a bit too picky?
Considering it's so hard to find the right car for us, it's really hard to give up the idea of finding a way to get this car.
12-23-2014, 10:02 AM
#9
AudiWorld Member
Can't be too much of a stickler for colors and options when you are shopping used unless you have a year or more to wait for the right car...I have owned 2 silver cars, my favorite cars, but I dislike the color--in my opinion you buy the best one you can find when purchasing a used formerly expensive automobile--you can get used to the color 
That Dealer really sounds like a douche--good thing you aren't Porsche or Ferrari shopping--would hate to see what kind of garbage he has on his lot in the upper ranges if the A8 was the cheapest on his lot.
That Dealer really sounds like a douche--good thing you aren't Porsche or Ferrari shopping--would hate to see what kind of garbage he has on his lot in the upper ranges if the A8 was the cheapest on his lot.
12-23-2014, 11:06 AM
#10
AudiWorld Senior Member
Good advice
I would NEVER buy from a dealer that acted like that. My $.02, if you have a local dealer that you like or have bought cars from in the past, just ask him/her to go to an auction and get it for you--it's where all of the dealer cars come from anyway.
If you have a budget in mind and have ideas of what you want, the dealer can scan inventory from all over the country from Manheim, put his markup on it, and then sell it to you and have zero risk...he would also know he has a seller so just look around for reputable used car dealers in your area. Believe me, buying a car he knows he already has sold would be a drop in the bucket. Extra points if the dealer has a shop attached [where he has to be accountable for early issues] or a mechanic you already trust to take it to.
My $.02--don't ever give your money to a sleazebagg dealer like this. There are plenty of good ones out there that will treat you right.
If you have a budget in mind and have ideas of what you want, the dealer can scan inventory from all over the country from Manheim, put his markup on it, and then sell it to you and have zero risk...he would also know he has a seller so just look around for reputable used car dealers in your area. Believe me, buying a car he knows he already has sold would be a drop in the bucket. Extra points if the dealer has a shop attached [where he has to be accountable for early issues] or a mechanic you already trust to take it to.
My $.02--don't ever give your money to a sleazebagg dealer like this. There are plenty of good ones out there that will treat you right.
Bought a $40K Toureg last month for a man I had never met, but was refered buy a good customer. He flew in from CA, had it checked out, bought the car and drove back to CA with $6-8 K in the bank he would have had to spend anywhere else to get that a similar unit. Simple.