Pashamad

+2 (paddles), MishaR!

dvs_dave

Any transmission that changes gear without the operation of a clutch and shifter directly by the driver is an automatic. No argument.

mishar

OK. So all real sports and racing cars this days have automatic transmission. Starting with Formula 1, Le Mans prototypes, all WRC cars, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Porsche's, Bugatti's ... everything really fast. Driving fast one have much more important things to do than to shift gears. Automatic transmission do that much better anyways.

dvs_dave

Yes, they are all automatics of one form or another. Note that I'm not bringing into question what sort of transmission is better from an outright speed perspective (whole different topic), just what defines an automatic vs manual transmission.

mishar

Point taken. Let's see than if synchronized gearbox is real manual. No need for a double clutch. It deprives gear shifting of any skill.

superswiss

That and the current crop of manual gearboxes that automatically rev match on a downshift as in all 2014 Audi models that still come with a manual gearbox and the new M3/M4 etc.

dvs_dave

Like I said, if it has a clutch pedal and a shifter that have to be operated each time a gear change happens, it's a manual. Syncro and rev matching are just conveniences to help the process.

superswiss

LOL! Make the theory fit your world view :-). So, syncros and rev matching are simply conveniences, but the computer operating the clutch automatically in a dual-clutch transmission is going too far...interesting.

dvs_dave

All I'm talking about is about what defines a manual trans vs an auto. What you're talking about I don't know??? So "LOL" right back at ya!

superswiss

I'm pointing out that the lines are getting blurred. Moreover, though, you are leaving out an important category of transmissions. The most common type of that category is the dual-clutch transmission, but in general these transmissions are referred to as semi-automatic transmissions or automated manual transmissions. Following is a good definition from Wikipedia. Modern versions of these transmissions have a fully automatic mode for convenience.

A semi-automatic transmission (SAT) (also known as a clutchless manual transmission, automated manual transmission, flappy-paddle gearbox, or paddle-shift gearbox) is an automobile transmission that does not change gears automatically, but rather facilitates manual gear changes by dispensing with the need to press a clutch pedal at the same time as changing gears. It uses electronic sensors, pneumatics, processors and actuators to execute gear shifts on the command of the driver or by a computer. This removes the need for a clutch pedal which the driver otherwise needs to depress before making a gear change, since the clutch itself is actuated by electronic equipment which can synchronise the timing and torque required to make quick, smooth gear shifts. The system was designed by automobile manufacturers to provide a better driving experience through fast overtaking maneuvers on highways.

The full write up is here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-au...c_transmission