Why the reluctance to do software updates?
10-31-2014, 04:42 AM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
This is why documented procedures and diagnostics are recommended.
Ultimately the user owns the changes, and is fully responsible for them.
Neither Ross-Tech nor any distributor will tell you how, or assist with such changes.
10-31-2014, 08:10 AM
#12
AudiWorld Super User
Ok, to keep it simple and to build on Mister Ballys post.
Let’s say we have two identical Audi A8 D3 with the same engine and with exactly the same options, but built two years in between. Essentially twins born two years apart, one in 2004 and the other in 2006. Both have the latest software for their model year, but the 2006 has newer generation software. Obviously both meet the US standards and all other countries standards as it’s implemented in a production model. So, why is it unsafe, unwanted and potentially dangerous to update the 2004 model to the same software version as the 2006 model? Forget about the fluid stuff now, in this example they are twins, and only difference is the version number on the software.
And one more thing, is it safer to play around in VCDS, than to update a genuine Audi firmware with newer genuine Audi software?
And the last thing, will all things possible with VCDS meet the FMVSS?
Let’s say we have two identical Audi A8 D3 with the same engine and with exactly the same options, but built two years in between. Essentially twins born two years apart, one in 2004 and the other in 2006. Both have the latest software for their model year, but the 2006 has newer generation software. Obviously both meet the US standards and all other countries standards as it’s implemented in a production model. So, why is it unsafe, unwanted and potentially dangerous to update the 2004 model to the same software version as the 2006 model? Forget about the fluid stuff now, in this example they are twins, and only difference is the version number on the software.
And one more thing, is it safer to play around in VCDS, than to update a genuine Audi firmware with newer genuine Audi software?
And the last thing, will all things possible with VCDS meet the FMVSS?
When updating MMI software some other modules gets update. Bluetooth module for sure. Gateway module has to be replaced with newer one in order to accept new software and enable rear view camera or adaptive cruise control. Parking assist module has to be replaced in order to enable visual assist.
VCDS changes are all about going off standard. Seatbelt chime off, enabling halogens as a high beam, even convenience windows opening/closing are not complying with US standards, but they are all nice.
10-31-2014, 09:30 AM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
But, they won't be twins...
Just take 2004 to 2006 as you say. Car was intro'ed into Europe as a mid 2003, then rolled into US as a 2004. There were boatloads of changes from 2004 to 2005, and then a fair number more from 2005 to 2006. Those were the "teething" years, on both some physical parts and some programming along side. Both may have ESP or "the same" 6HP ZF tranny or 4.2 with similar specs (but a new motor code) as just a few of tons of subsystems. Underneath, it may on the one hand just be physical like a better bushing, or it may be a sensor calibrated differently. Or even more tricky on the one hand it may be physical like a clutch lining composition or thickness in a tranny that affects gear engagement, or on the other hand, a change to the pressure setting driven through a tranny solenoid trigger point that also affects gear engagement.
TPMS sensors are a great example of complexity for one very narrow system on the car: along the way it went from a Euro high end thing exceeding U.S. required spec to being mandatory. Buried in the TPMS computer box and the MMI software, Audi deleted the TPMS turn off option. No one knows even how or where exactly they did it, but owners have triangulated to know that they did. Plus, the sensors got changed from the older more buggy gray colored ones to the newer orange ones. Some countries use a different frequency due to FCC and counterpart spectrum regulation. Finally, on early 2004's of all things something in the MMI software apparently somehow caused the antenna side of the systems in the right (wrong) conditions like literally driving past picket fences to misread environmental conditions as a fault. That led to a long forgotten software update to deal with the "picket fence" issue. Specifics aside, notice in just this one system the multiplicity of issues at play.
As another practical one, dive into trannies sometime for Audi's or any others using ZF's. They have 3 digit codes, which sometimes tell you from the tables they have different gear sets (4.2 vs. W12 vs S8 vs Euro TDI, etc.) But other times very specifically there are indeed internal differences in the pressure settings, clutches, etc. Sometimes they can be swapped across codes and sometimes they can't, even in the same year and motor type. There are in turn compatibility tables to help decipher this.
Net, to code the car right you need to be working at the subsystem level and also know it wasn't modded, plus know which changes go with which relevant prior versions.
Answering your question from last post, yes you can do things with VAG COM that don't technically comply with federal standards here and there. They might comply somewhere else though. For example, no seatbelt chime is a pretty obvious "standard" that some defeat. Set the brake lights for rapid variable flash under hard braking (hard to get this coding to work to be clear) and you definitely aren't complaint with U.S. standards, let alone in more than a few states you may technically be afoul of the "cop car" statutes dealing that deal with colors of lights and flashing stuff. But the same setting can be "factory" in Euro countries. Typically they do keep the motor/ECU stuff thoroughly walled off, plus obvious stuff like odometer tampering.
TPMS sensors are a great example of complexity for one very narrow system on the car: along the way it went from a Euro high end thing exceeding U.S. required spec to being mandatory. Buried in the TPMS computer box and the MMI software, Audi deleted the TPMS turn off option. No one knows even how or where exactly they did it, but owners have triangulated to know that they did. Plus, the sensors got changed from the older more buggy gray colored ones to the newer orange ones. Some countries use a different frequency due to FCC and counterpart spectrum regulation. Finally, on early 2004's of all things something in the MMI software apparently somehow caused the antenna side of the systems in the right (wrong) conditions like literally driving past picket fences to misread environmental conditions as a fault. That led to a long forgotten software update to deal with the "picket fence" issue. Specifics aside, notice in just this one system the multiplicity of issues at play.
As another practical one, dive into trannies sometime for Audi's or any others using ZF's. They have 3 digit codes, which sometimes tell you from the tables they have different gear sets (4.2 vs. W12 vs S8 vs Euro TDI, etc.) But other times very specifically there are indeed internal differences in the pressure settings, clutches, etc. Sometimes they can be swapped across codes and sometimes they can't, even in the same year and motor type. There are in turn compatibility tables to help decipher this.
Net, to code the car right you need to be working at the subsystem level and also know it wasn't modded, plus know which changes go with which relevant prior versions.
Answering your question from last post, yes you can do things with VAG COM that don't technically comply with federal standards here and there. They might comply somewhere else though. For example, no seatbelt chime is a pretty obvious "standard" that some defeat. Set the brake lights for rapid variable flash under hard braking (hard to get this coding to work to be clear) and you definitely aren't complaint with U.S. standards, let alone in more than a few states you may technically be afoul of the "cop car" statutes dealing that deal with colors of lights and flashing stuff. But the same setting can be "factory" in Euro countries. Typically they do keep the motor/ECU stuff thoroughly walled off, plus obvious stuff like odometer tampering.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 10-31-2014 at 10:19 AM.
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