Originally Posted by BigBoy11

BTW, you may have to go back to previous to get the first page of the review. Sorry.

Originally Posted by wilfred2k5

No. I'm also someone for whom the PRIMARY reason for purchase is the technology. I feel your pain, having experienced some of the same issues, as well as having been a software engineer for many years.

Audi does not do as good a job as I would like, but some of the problems you're seeing can be easily remedied.

#1 Be sure you're running 0566 firmware or later.

MY FIRMWARE VERSION IS 0609


#2 A number of your issues seem phone related. I believe your phone is being used as a "guest" phone. Completely clear your iPhone of bonded devices. Use MMI to completely wipe the Bluetooth memory. Reset MMI with the three-finger salute. Only then should you plug your phone into AMI, and bond your phone for telephone purposes only. Let it suck in your contacts (being sure that you have no more than 2000 on your phone), and confirm that they should be saved into MMI. In the morning or after an MMI reset, my nav targets are available in approximately 1 minute.

I WILL TRY THIS TONIGHT. THE ODD THING IS THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT IT SUCKS IN THE CONTACTS, THEN THE NEXT TIME YOU BOOT THE CAR AND GO TO DIRECTORY AND THEN MEMORY, IT IS SUCKING IN THE CONTACTS AGAIN FOR ABOUT 4 MINUTES. YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT IMPORTING ONCE AGAIN. THE CONTACTS IN THE MAIN DIRECTORY ARE NOT AVAILABLE UNTIL THAT IMPORT IS 2/3 DONE. ARE YOU SEEING THAT SAME BEHAVIOR.


#3 As for favorites being linked to the phone, you can save destinations to your MyAudi account that can always be accessed. Contacts tied to addresses on a given phone are NOT available without the phone. This is for privacy reasons. How difficult would it be for you to simply send the relevant contacts to your wife? Surely those contacts are useful to her at times when she isn't in the car. As a software guy, you should know how to send her contacts via Messages. That's not a bug; that's a feature, and a heavily-requested one.

ALAS, THE LAST THING I WANT TO DO IS PUT MY CONTACTS IN YET ANOTHER PLACE (MYAUDI). NOT TRYING IN ANY WAY TO BE SARCASTIC, BUT MY WIFE AND I LIVE IN THE SAME HOUSE AND HAVE THE SAME KIDS. THE ONLY THING I WANT IN FAVORITES REALLY IS HOME, ALL OF MY KID'S SCHOOLS, AND MY OFFICE, WHICH ARE COMMON TO BOTH OF US. THEY ARE, OF COURSE, IN BOTH OF OUR PHONES. I WANT "PUBLIC" FAVORITES, HOWEVER, FOR FAMILIES THAT DRIVE THE SAME CARS. I GUESS I'LL SAY THIS - GIVE ME THE OPTION. HOME IS HOME IS HOME. THAT ONE SHOULD NOT TAKE 4 MINUTES TO LOAD.


#4 If MMI is rebooting on you during the day, you have a problem module OR old MMI firmware OR your AMI cable is not attached completely to your phone. I had this problem until I noticed that the cable was not firmly locking to my 30-pin connector. I purchased a "red grommet" AMI cable from someone on this board. Now, I only see the issue when my iPhone locks up (generally due to the slow T-Mobile 3G service after I select a song from the iTunes cloud). Even that doesn't happen very often.

IT'S NOT REBOOTING ON ME DURING THE DAY. IF I START THE CAR SOMEWHERE ABOUT 1/2 HOUR AFTER STOPPING IT, THINGS SEEM "CACHED" AND LOAD FASTER. ANY MORE TIME (SAY 45-50 MINUTES), THE SYSTEM SEEMS TO GO TO SLEEP AND THAT SAME 4 MINUTE MORNING LOAD TIME STARTS AGAIN.


#5 The high-beam issue is a race condition. Think about how you make the problem happen. Is it a bug? Yes. Why doesn't it generate more complaints? Because most people just leave it in AUTO and never touch it again...I constantly tell people the same thing about the climate controls. Unless you're ill and need a bit more warmth temporarily, you should pretend the controls don't even exist. Ditto with the headlights. For every Audi I've ever owned, AUTO goes on the first time I drive and never goes off again unless it's done by the service department.

I KNEW THAT SECTION WOULD THROW PEOPLE OFF. FORGET THE PART ABOUT THE UNINTUITIVE CONTROLS. THE HIGH-BEAMS GOT *LOCKED ON*. I MEAN LOCKED. THERE WERE TWO ISSUES DESCRIBED, THE LOCKED-ON ISSUE BEING MORE SERIOUS. A CAR REBOOT TOOK CARE OF IT.


#6 I have tried EVERY audio source (AM/FM/Sirius/DVD/SD1/SD2/Jukebox/Bluetooth/Telephone/AMI-iPhone/Wi-Fi Internet Radio) with the volume set to 18 or higher, and every time I stop the car (everything off and MMI closed), opened the door, waited a minute, closed the door, started the car, the volume level came back to 4. I've never known the volume to be stuck. The steering wheel volume control takes a few seconds to be functional, but the MMI volume control on the center dash works immediately for me.

THIS MEANS I DEFINITELY HAVE AN ISSUE. GOOD TO KNOW. ANOTHER MINOR IRRITATION WITH VOLUME FOR ME IS WHEN I SET THE VOLUME TO ZERO AND THEN ACCELERATE. DOES YOUR VOLUME GO TO 2-4 BECAUSE OF ADAPTIVE VOLUME? THEY NEED AN IF/THEN STATEMENT: IF VOLUME IS 0, IGNORE ADAPTIVE VOLUME INCREASE...


#7 The A8 does not "hijack" your call. This behavior can be altered from your iPhone. On my iPhones, if I start the car while I'm on a call, Bluetooth takes over. Tapping SOURCES on my phone lets me easiliy change it back to speaker/iPhone/my headset. This is wonderful since I can walk from the office with my Bluetooth headset on, get in the car and have it take over for me. If you look at your iPhone, it displays the SOURCES menu for a few seconds when your car becomes alive. Check the Apple forum; there's a way to make it not change from the iPhone itself if you're using iOS 5.x or earlier. Alternately, you can remove the MMI telephone bond while leaving the audio bond.

THIS ONE I WILL COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH. IT DOES INDEED HIJACK THE CALL ON EVERY AUDI I OWN AND EVERY AUDI MY ENTHUSIAST FRIEND OWNS (6 OF THEM). VERY COMMON SCENARIO: MY WIFE IS DRIVING. I WANT TO MAKE A CALL TO THE OFFICE. I PICK UP MY PHONE THAT IS LINKED TO THE CAR. I SELECT SOURCE / HANDSET. DIAL. AUDI HIJACK #1. SELECT SOURCE / HANDSET ON THE IPHONE. PHONE RINGS. AUDI HIJACK #2. SELECT SOURCE / HANDSET. OFFICE ANSWERS. AUDI HIJACK #3. SELECT SOURCE / HANDSET. GO ON WITH CALL. THIS IS A SOFTWARE SDK THAT I HAPPEN TO BE INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN ON FORDS, TOYOTAS, BMWS, OR ANY OTHER VEHICLE THAT I HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH AND I KNOW *EXACTLY* WHY - THEY READ THE BLUETOOTH CELLULAR IMPLEMENTATION GUIDELINES. AUDI DID NOT. THIS ONE IS RIGHT UP MY ALLEY - THEY HAVE 3 PARTS MIS-CODED, BUT WILL PROBABLY NEVER CHANGE IT.


Think carefully about this BECAUSE it's no longer legal to operate (not even drive, just operate) a car while using a phone. In some states (e.g. California), there's a $169 fine if you TOUCH your phone for any reason. You can't use it as a NAV, you can't look up a contact, you can't tap to ignore a call, even if you're at a traffic signal, while the ignition is on.

PASSENGER


-------

Well, I've reached by typing limit for the week. I hope this helps. Audi's MMI is nowhere near perfect, but it's somewhat like when, as a longtime Windows internals guy, I decided to try a Mac. I was miserable for about 8 months, trying to work the same way I always did but with the different UI. "I can't find a decent defragger for this thing!" and "It's impossible to manage where your documents are in the file system!"


Eventually, I figured out that most of the Windows overhead is simply unnecessary and that I could instantly find documents and e-mail I hadn't touched in years using Spotlight. Now, I find Windows absolutely barbaric. I often say "So here I am digging for my file at the command prompt, LIKE AN ANIMAL!!!"

It has been similar with my A8L. "I can't refresh my podcast list!" (It just happens). "Once you've locked the trunk, you have to open the door to get at the trunk release." (Because waving your foot under the rear bumper opens the trunk).

I suggest spending an evening in the garage with the MMI manual and learning all the little things they got right.

AGAIN, YOU ARE TALKING TO A SOFTWARE DEVELOPER. MY POINT IS THAT THEY DO SOME THINGS WRONG. SOME VERY, VERY WRONG. MY CENTER CONSOLE HAS CARBON FIBER THAT WAS MACHINED TO A PRECISION THAT MY MIND CAN'T EVEN GRASP. THAT LEVEL OF PRECISION ON A 150K CAR SHOULD EXTEND INTO THE ELECTRONICS. TOYOTA AND NOW TESLA LEAVE AUDI IN THE DUST FOR ELECTRONICS IMPLEMENTATION. MY 24K PRIUS HAD 0 LEARNING CURVE FOR MORE SYSTEMS. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO LEARN THE IDIOSYNCRASIES FOR MY CAR. I'LL LEARN THE COOL, NEW STUFF, BUT NOT THE THINKS MY 150K CAR DOES BAD.


One more thing: If you've ever done deployment on mission critical software, you know that, even if you have a simple fix for something, it may take several months before your users see that fix. End users will never see "daily builds" of firmware for a vehicle that (a) can literally explode, (b) can maim or even kill innocent bystanders if it malfunctions, (c) can bankrupt the company even if there's a rumor of the car being unsafe (e.g. the whole 60 Minutes unintended acceleration scam that almost bankrupted Audi). Firmware is called "firmware" because it isn't supposed to change much. Try writing software for a nuclear control center, an X-ray machine or a pace maker. "Oops I forgot a semicolon" is not acceptable. The timeline for a full revision of the MMI firmware is 2 years, from what I understand, and involves a great deal of testing on real cars, in all kinds of circumstances (temperatures, malfunctions, multiple and cascade failures). They can't risk having a change to the reboot process causing a race condition with the ECU that jams the CAN bus and stops the ABS from functioning. It's unlikely we'll ever see firmware updates more frequently than once every 12-18 months.

TESLA PUTS OUT NIGHTLY BUILDS THEY FIRED THE FIRST SHOT. I HOPE EVERY AUTOMOTIVE MANUFACTURER OUT THERE TAKES NOTE AND DOES THE SAME THING FOR NON-CRITICAL SYSTEMS.


Enjoy your S8. I'll be getting the 2016 model with all the bugs you mentioned resolved.

NO FAIR! YOU DON'T GET TO WAIT. GO GET THE 2013 AND JOIN ME IN THE CRUSADE!


;-)

Originally Posted by wilfred2k5

Johno,

A few questions:

Which version of iOS are you using?
Is your wife also using an iOS device?
Approximately how many contacts do you have?
Is the T-Mobile SIM inserted and managing to get signal?

Check my older posts. For the first few weeks I owned my A8L, it would turn on the overhead lights full bright, move the seats and start unlocking the door every 5 seconds until, at some point, it decided to stop. If I told you all the electrical/software issues I've had with my Audi's, your head would spin 'round and burst. I assure you that I believe you.

I think your biggest problem is that you have a dealer who doesn't. I know my service advisors well, having almost lived at the dealership on several occasions while my various cars went through their conniption fits. You may want to try a different dealer, as well as give the Audi A8/S8/R8 line a call and start working through them.

I'll try to spend some time duplicating your issues as well , possibly this weekend. A "sighting" is never given the same weight as a verified issue. The power of AudiWorld is that a few hundred calls about an issue will definitely get some attention. Besides, we have to get all these problems fixed before I order my next Audi. ;-)

I would like to see something that confirms Tesla is doing daily builds (and releasing them to customers) of their firmware. I find that exceptionally hard to believe. There must be more to the story. MMI is considered a critical system since it sits on a number of critical system CAN busses.

Originally Posted by mark_nimda

First I am sorry about your issues. But I know how you feel. I had to lemon law my 2011 S4, A car that I really loved to drive during my 9200 miles of ownership. The only good thing that came out of that was AUDI Stepped up before I proceeded with the next step in the Lemon law process and they gave me everything the Lemon law would give me (Refunded my money using the usage formula and my tax was fully returned) I still wasnt completely happy but I am hoping to make lemonade out of a lemon by using the returned funds towards a 2014 R8 Spyder

I dont have an S8 but I ordered a 2013 A8 in sept of 2012. Beautiful car with B&O sound (I am a huge audiophile) At 2K miles, I had transmission issues. A brand new transmission went in. Now, at 4200 miles, I am experiencing something similar to the previous transmission problem. Of course, this is mechanical failure and not electronic but my S4 had many electronic issues from day 1.

Unfortunately, this seems to be par with almost every german manufacturer, with the exception of Porsche. I have spent much time on BMW and MERC forums and both are electronic nightmares. Search the NHTSA on Merc or BMW TSB's and you will find more issues than AUDI believe it or not and most are invariably electronic

It doesnt make us feel better but its almost like you can have a fun driving an AUDI or drive an AUDI with a stunning Luxurious interior but there will be a price to pay in the form of issues with some cars having more than others.

I would honestly ask AUDI for a new S8 even though you feel comfortable that these are software issues (I too am a Software developer BTW). My S4 S-TRONIC was said to have a software issue and it had 2 updates and it still misbehaved (

The good thing about AUDI is they do step up (I dont know about the other german manufacturers). The bad thing is its almost like AUDI engineering issues fall on deaf ears and their fix is to replace the car rather than put forth better efforts with these issues from the ground up. The other bad thing is AUDI USA lost a good man in June 2012. But when AUDI lets a man like Johan de Nysschen go, then you know that the Germans are stubborn and probably couldnt care less about U.S. opinions

AUDI has so much potential. I came over from lexus and AUDI isnt even in the same solar system as lexus when it comes to reliability. But no lexus is as enjoyable to drive as AUDI (or any german car for that matter) and the A8 interior blows away the LS460 interior which is why I sold my LS a year ago. So I am desparately trying hang in there with AUDI, thats for sure

Originally Posted by Dr.Aronis

John,

I read your post. I agree there are some issues with the MMI system in the A8.

I drive back and forth fairly frequently and it's not unusual for me to get in the car to drive 8 or 10 times per day at all hours of the night and day.

The MMI's state of readiness, if you will, is schizophrenic and unpredictable. I have found that after 8 or more hours I can get in the car, plug in my iPhone, start up the car and every thing is up and running before I back out of my parking space, while at other times after a 5 minute stop to pump gas, the MMI has to start from scratch. (not reboot).

The thing can't always remember where you iPhone left off with a play list, but sometimes it does, even after a day of not driving the car.....it picks up where I left off. Other times it goes to the default of the first song on my SECOND PLAYLIST. I added a play list prefixed with AA to force it to be the first on the list and the GD thing goes back to that first song (which was the first song on the playlist when I plugged in the iphone for the first time, I am guessing). And it does that after playing 2 or 3 seconds of the podcast I left off on (or song)!

Lets face it, this software may never be fixed to our liking, but there may be a better fix.

As far as I can determine, with it's schizophrenic behavior, you're not going to be able to fool it.....

So how about this Audi, add an MMI setting to CHOOSE the length of time we want our car to stay in the state of readiness,( I.E. MMI up and running) and have it use some battery juice to do so at OUR peril. Perhaps the MMI could monitor the battery level and then shut down if we choose too long of a Ready State Time Delay?

The thing can run the cooling fans for 10 minutes after I shut off the car, and leave the headlights on for 10 minutes ( I really don't get that one as it sometimes stays on for 20 or more minutes), so they don't seem to be too concerned with battery usage, so Perhaps the MMI could be programmed to do the same?

To those distracters who immediately told you you were the Only One, I suggest you read about my early posts on The RS6 DRC issue. I was told I was the only one, but being an engineer (BioMedical which includes Mechanical, Electronic and Software engineering, including fluid dynamics and a lot of physics) I was told that my opinion of the design and implementation of the DRC was hogwash. And What Happened? ALL 1200 RS6 DRC systems FAILED and were replaced on RECALL only to have them FAIL AGAIN.

So be tough, stick to your guns, Your The Software Guy, so that gives credence to your complaint.

Mike

Who ever mentioned Audi dumping Johan, good call, I spent plenty of time on the phone with him while my car was in the shop having the DRC fixed! he was not helpful to me.