Boy what a differance tires make in handling and ride
08-15-2015, 03:12 PM
#41
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
OP,
FWIW, Tirerack lists three 20" OE tires for your car, but only the P Zero is actually AO spec.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...nLoadRating=XL
FWIW, Tirerack lists three 20" OE tires for your car, but only the P Zero is actually AO spec.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...nLoadRating=XL
Correct, only one of those tires are rated "AO" and its a summer tire. I need an all season tire. "AO" is not to be found in an all season 20" version for the A8.
After running the Goodyear in a 275 version, I will be using those from the Goodyear franchise dealer moving forward. They run true and shake free, unlike the same Goodyears I received from the Tire Rack.
I have been buying from Tire Rack for an number of years for all my vehicles, and I go thru a lot of them! I wish I could say that I have had good luck with them regarding the shakes like some of you guys, but I can't. Time and time again if they don't shake right from the start, 1000 miles later they would. I have had no luck whatsoever with Tire Rack tires.
Just a little research and a few calls later and I have my answer as to why. It's either only "OE" tires, or tires bought from a franchise dealer for me on my Audi's from now on. Even though it may cost more up front, it will save me multiple disappointing expensive road force balances and frustration. I HATE a vehicle that shakes! And the Audi's seem to be less tolerant to any type of balance and/or out of round tolerances.
08-15-2015, 07:32 PM
#42
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Correct, only one of those tires are rated "AO" and its a summer tire. I need an all season tire. "AO" is not to be found in an all season 20" version for the A8.
After running the Goodyear in a 275 version, I will be using those from the Goodyear franchise dealer moving forward. They run true and shake free, unlike the same Goodyears I received from the Tire Rack.
I have been buying from Tire Rack for an number of years for all my vehicles, and I go thru a lot of them! I wish I could say that I have had good luck with them regarding the shakes like some of you guys, but I can't. Time and time again if they don't shake right from the start, 1000 miles later they would. I have had no luck whatsoever with Tire Rack tires.
Just a little research and a few calls later and I have my answer as to why. It's either only "OE" tires, or tires bought from a franchise dealer for me on my Audi's from now on. Even though it may cost more up front, it will save me multiple disappointing expensive road force balances and frustration. I HATE a vehicle that shakes! And the Audi's seem to be less tolerant to any type of balance and/or out of round tolerances.
After running the Goodyear in a 275 version, I will be using those from the Goodyear franchise dealer moving forward. They run true and shake free, unlike the same Goodyears I received from the Tire Rack.
I have been buying from Tire Rack for an number of years for all my vehicles, and I go thru a lot of them! I wish I could say that I have had good luck with them regarding the shakes like some of you guys, but I can't. Time and time again if they don't shake right from the start, 1000 miles later they would. I have had no luck whatsoever with Tire Rack tires.
Just a little research and a few calls later and I have my answer as to why. It's either only "OE" tires, or tires bought from a franchise dealer for me on my Audi's from now on. Even though it may cost more up front, it will save me multiple disappointing expensive road force balances and frustration. I HATE a vehicle that shakes! And the Audi's seem to be less tolerant to any type of balance and/or out of round tolerances.
Last edited by Baloo588; 08-15-2015 at 07:34 PM.
08-16-2015, 05:05 AM
#43
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
I'm certainly not narrow minded, and nowhere did I ever say OEM's were best. I have been to three different Audi dealers for road force balance within the last year alone for my last set of tires, and dealers like Tires Plus and local shops that were RECOMMENDED by Tire Rack have installed my tires. I will also say that never again will I let a Tire Rack recommended dealer touch my wheels for an Audi!
The second last set I got from Tire Rack I sent all four tires back. The previous set I sent two back. Usually I put them on and they are smooth for a day, within the week they are shaking. Does not matter what brand I get from the Tire Rack, they ALL will shake within a week of running for me, my old A6's or the A8, does not matter. I don't think I'm hard on tires at all, but I don't run slow speeds either, I'm they guy blasting by everyone on the road, and on a road trip will take it right to the speed limiter, so that is very possible I am stressing the inside belting more, but if it can't take it I don't want it!
Again, the best and ONLY TIRES I have found to stay round and in balance for ME are tires marked "AO" and/or factory takeoff tires and wheels.
I have tried every major brand available on my Audi's in many hundreds of thousands of miles, and agree that Michelins are my favorite also, but after trying these Goodyear Sport All-Seasons that they are a fantastic tire for the A8 as long as you get a set that is and stays round.
I talked to a retired tire engineer, and found out for a fact that THERE IS INDEED a difference as to where a tire goes based on it's tolerance off the line, there is a reason every tire off the line is tested and marked for balance and high points on the tire! It's what the colored dots are for. The best tires, (meaning concentric and in balance) goes to the OEM'S and franchise dealers, the lesser quality tires go to the discounts and internet retailers. So you run a higher risk of getting out of round tires from them, and if they are out of round to begin with, they will only get worse over time with speed and pressure on those already high points. Some may never experience this if never running at high speeds. Also there is a reason that an "AO" spec is out there. They are made to higher standards and tolerance just as Audi says they are. They are made to stay round and in balance to run the high speed autobahn!
Not sure why some of you are getting so bent outa shape about this. I only wanted to get some info from people that really knew something about the facts as they are hard to come by on this subject and tend to keep this info "secret" and close to chest. You don't ever hear much talk about it, but it's there, just like area 51! LOL!!! Course they can't talk about that either unless you find that retired guy. I found the retired guy that WOULD talk about it, and from now on I WILL pay more up front for the better chance at a more round concentric tire for its lifespan.
Maybe you missed the post from this person?
jengram
Audiworld Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 45
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KnappAttack is 100% correct about this issue. I and many of my friends work for one the largest tire manufactures. Just because all the 1st rate tires go to the car manufactures doesn't mean the other tires going to the internet sellers are 3rd rate; however, it does mean they don't meet the same standards as the tires that are sent to the auto manufactures.
The quality for the 3rd party sellers are very good and will last as long as the 1st rate tires, but they may not provide the same ride quality. The ride quality can vary with car model and style of driving.
The reason the 1st tier tires going to the auto manufactures should be obvious. They want the cars, especially while under warranty, to have the best ride possible.
And to whomever mentioned above about sorting manually, this is not the case. The tire plants are automated and this is done by the machinery to keep the cost down and reduce the possibility of mistakes.
The second last set I got from Tire Rack I sent all four tires back. The previous set I sent two back. Usually I put them on and they are smooth for a day, within the week they are shaking. Does not matter what brand I get from the Tire Rack, they ALL will shake within a week of running for me, my old A6's or the A8, does not matter. I don't think I'm hard on tires at all, but I don't run slow speeds either, I'm they guy blasting by everyone on the road, and on a road trip will take it right to the speed limiter, so that is very possible I am stressing the inside belting more, but if it can't take it I don't want it!
Again, the best and ONLY TIRES I have found to stay round and in balance for ME are tires marked "AO" and/or factory takeoff tires and wheels.
I have tried every major brand available on my Audi's in many hundreds of thousands of miles, and agree that Michelins are my favorite also, but after trying these Goodyear Sport All-Seasons that they are a fantastic tire for the A8 as long as you get a set that is and stays round.
I talked to a retired tire engineer, and found out for a fact that THERE IS INDEED a difference as to where a tire goes based on it's tolerance off the line, there is a reason every tire off the line is tested and marked for balance and high points on the tire! It's what the colored dots are for. The best tires, (meaning concentric and in balance) goes to the OEM'S and franchise dealers, the lesser quality tires go to the discounts and internet retailers. So you run a higher risk of getting out of round tires from them, and if they are out of round to begin with, they will only get worse over time with speed and pressure on those already high points. Some may never experience this if never running at high speeds. Also there is a reason that an "AO" spec is out there. They are made to higher standards and tolerance just as Audi says they are. They are made to stay round and in balance to run the high speed autobahn!
Not sure why some of you are getting so bent outa shape about this. I only wanted to get some info from people that really knew something about the facts as they are hard to come by on this subject and tend to keep this info "secret" and close to chest. You don't ever hear much talk about it, but it's there, just like area 51! LOL!!! Course they can't talk about that either unless you find that retired guy. I found the retired guy that WOULD talk about it, and from now on I WILL pay more up front for the better chance at a more round concentric tire for its lifespan.
Maybe you missed the post from this person?
jengram
Audiworld Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 45
Default
KnappAttack is 100% correct about this issue. I and many of my friends work for one the largest tire manufactures. Just because all the 1st rate tires go to the car manufactures doesn't mean the other tires going to the internet sellers are 3rd rate; however, it does mean they don't meet the same standards as the tires that are sent to the auto manufactures.
The quality for the 3rd party sellers are very good and will last as long as the 1st rate tires, but they may not provide the same ride quality. The ride quality can vary with car model and style of driving.
The reason the 1st tier tires going to the auto manufactures should be obvious. They want the cars, especially while under warranty, to have the best ride possible.
And to whomever mentioned above about sorting manually, this is not the case. The tire plants are automated and this is done by the machinery to keep the cost down and reduce the possibility of mistakes.
Last edited by KnappAttack; 08-16-2015 at 05:10 AM.
08-16-2015, 06:30 AM
#44
As for engram's post, that is far from what I would call proof.
I worked many years on the floor in multiple manufacturing industries. I find it hard to believe that the tire manufacturing business is that much different than any other manufacturing operation. The thought that such a detailed sorting and marking and subsequent inventory control operation as described goes on just defies logic. and is not something I can even conceive of. U.S. manufacturers in particular are dedicated to Just In Time inventory and sorting tires and holding some for one customer while sending some to another customer is just implausible. Following the scenario outlined by engram would require at least triple the number of SKU's on the factory floor and likely triple the warehouse space to keep these "inferior" tires available to ship to Tirerack and others. Manufacturers are in business to make money, and all that extra stuff adds significant cost.
Sorry, it it doesn't make sense to me then I can't accept it as fact just based on a "retired engineer" who may or may not have actually worked on the floor where the work is done.
I worked many years on the floor in multiple manufacturing industries. I find it hard to believe that the tire manufacturing business is that much different than any other manufacturing operation. The thought that such a detailed sorting and marking and subsequent inventory control operation as described goes on just defies logic. and is not something I can even conceive of. U.S. manufacturers in particular are dedicated to Just In Time inventory and sorting tires and holding some for one customer while sending some to another customer is just implausible. Following the scenario outlined by engram would require at least triple the number of SKU's on the factory floor and likely triple the warehouse space to keep these "inferior" tires available to ship to Tirerack and others. Manufacturers are in business to make money, and all that extra stuff adds significant cost.
Sorry, it it doesn't make sense to me then I can't accept it as fact just based on a "retired engineer" who may or may not have actually worked on the floor where the work is done.
08-31-2015, 06:52 PM
#45
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Well this is getting interesting.
Two tires from the local dealer I had them warranty and replace measure 12 and 13 on the Hunter road force machine. So the two from the local Goodyear dealer were not too bad. I had Tire Rack warranty the other two and so far they have sent me four tires this last few weeks. First six tires from Tire Rack, none measure less than 21 lbs on the Hunter road force machine! One the dealer installed today measured 37 lbs!
The last two Tire Rack sent me they checked before shipping said were 12 and 15 lbs. Dealer put them on today and found 17 and 37 lbs. Anyone want to drive a paint shaker??
So two tires the local Goodyear shop are good according to Audi dealers road force machine, and I can confirm, I put them on the front and the steering wheel no longer shakes which is good, but my perfect record continues with 100% failure rate with Tire Rack tires including the last two supposedly passing Tire Racks testing prior to sending them out to me knowing the problems I've had with them.
So score so far:
2 Goodyears from local Goodyear store 100% no shake and round. 12 and 13 lbs of road force.
8 Goodyears from Tire Rack off internet 100% epic failure, rides like a paint shaker and not round. One at 17 lbs all others over 21-37 lbs. Audi is telling me 16 and above is fail on the 20" wheel. Even 16 seems a bit high to me on the 20" wheels.
Oh --- and to compound the problems with shaking and out of round tires, the dealer mucked up one of my perfect wheels today too! The fun continues!
Two tires from the local dealer I had them warranty and replace measure 12 and 13 on the Hunter road force machine. So the two from the local Goodyear dealer were not too bad. I had Tire Rack warranty the other two and so far they have sent me four tires this last few weeks. First six tires from Tire Rack, none measure less than 21 lbs on the Hunter road force machine! One the dealer installed today measured 37 lbs!
The last two Tire Rack sent me they checked before shipping said were 12 and 15 lbs. Dealer put them on today and found 17 and 37 lbs. Anyone want to drive a paint shaker??
So two tires the local Goodyear shop are good according to Audi dealers road force machine, and I can confirm, I put them on the front and the steering wheel no longer shakes which is good, but my perfect record continues with 100% failure rate with Tire Rack tires including the last two supposedly passing Tire Racks testing prior to sending them out to me knowing the problems I've had with them.
So score so far:
2 Goodyears from local Goodyear store 100% no shake and round. 12 and 13 lbs of road force.
8 Goodyears from Tire Rack off internet 100% epic failure, rides like a paint shaker and not round. One at 17 lbs all others over 21-37 lbs. Audi is telling me 16 and above is fail on the 20" wheel. Even 16 seems a bit high to me on the 20" wheels.
Oh --- and to compound the problems with shaking and out of round tires, the dealer mucked up one of my perfect wheels today too! The fun continues!
08-31-2015, 07:47 PM
#46
AudiWorld Super User
Maybe it's just Goodyears that are sub par from Tirerack. Or maybe you are just cursed when it comes to Tirerack. Or maybe they read your posts and they have it in for you. Who knows.
As i noted previously, my results have been quite the opposite re Tirerack. I just had my dealer mount four Conti DSW 06 from Tirerack and the Hunter showed all four are averaging 12 lbs of road force. Smooth as silk, no vibrations. Same experience three years ago with their Bridgestone RE970AS which lasted 35K miles. Never ordered any Goodyears though. Go figure.
As i noted previously, my results have been quite the opposite re Tirerack. I just had my dealer mount four Conti DSW 06 from Tirerack and the Hunter showed all four are averaging 12 lbs of road force. Smooth as silk, no vibrations. Same experience three years ago with their Bridgestone RE970AS which lasted 35K miles. Never ordered any Goodyears though. Go figure.
Last edited by snagitseven; 08-31-2015 at 08:36 PM.
09-03-2015, 07:10 PM
#47
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Maybe it's just Goodyears that are sub par from Tirerack. Or maybe you are just cursed when it comes to Tirerack. Or maybe they read your posts and they have it in for you. Who knows.
As i noted previously, my results have been quite the opposite re Tirerack. I just had my dealer mount four Conti DSW 06 from Tirerack and the Hunter showed all four are averaging 12 lbs of road force. Smooth as silk, no vibrations. Same experience three years ago with their Bridgestone RE970AS which lasted 35K miles. Never ordered any Goodyears though. Go figure.
As i noted previously, my results have been quite the opposite re Tirerack. I just had my dealer mount four Conti DSW 06 from Tirerack and the Hunter showed all four are averaging 12 lbs of road force. Smooth as silk, no vibrations. Same experience three years ago with their Bridgestone RE970AS which lasted 35K miles. Never ordered any Goodyears though. Go figure.
Lets see if Tire Rack can deliver me four smooth running and round Contis. Man I sure hope so. If they can not, I'll never order from them again, I know that much.
09-03-2015, 07:59 PM
#48
AudiWorld Super User
I'm very surprised you would keep trying Tire Rack with all the problems you've had and your conviction re OE tires, brick and mortar tire dealers, internet resellers and all that. It is obvious they have been working with you up and down the line - frankly I'm puzzled they didn't say to just return the last set and give you a refund. In any case, I would be amazed if the Conti DWS 06 don't work out for you. (1K miles and I'm still lovin' mine). If not, maybe the only option left would br to consider a new car with OE tires. Of course, they could turn out to suck too. Been there, done that.
09-04-2015, 08:34 AM
#49
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Interesting discussion about all season tires...
I recently ordered a s8 and have started looking for all season tires. The question I have is :
Given all the variances in the tires ordered from B&M stores and internet retailers, how would I ensure that I get good tires? If the dealer ordered DWS06s, would they be better than ones from say Discount Tire?
I recently ordered a s8 and have started looking for all season tires. The question I have is :
Given all the variances in the tires ordered from B&M stores and internet retailers, how would I ensure that I get good tires? If the dealer ordered DWS06s, would they be better than ones from say Discount Tire?
09-04-2015, 11:15 AM
#50
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Interesting discussion about all season tires...
I recently ordered a s8 and have started looking for all season tires. The question I have is :
Given all the variances in the tires ordered from B&M stores and internet retailers, how would I ensure that I get good tires? If the dealer ordered DWS06s, would they be better than ones from say Discount Tire?
I recently ordered a s8 and have started looking for all season tires. The question I have is :
Given all the variances in the tires ordered from B&M stores and internet retailers, how would I ensure that I get good tires? If the dealer ordered DWS06s, would they be better than ones from say Discount Tire?
There is no way to know you're going to get "good tires".
The last two Goodyears Tire rack sent me were supposed to be mounted and pre-checked at Tire Rack befor shipping to me at 12 and 15 lbs of roadforce. Got them here, had the Audi Dealer mount and balance them and they measured 17 and 37 lbs!
Audi told me 16 lbs. roadforce was too much on my 20" rims and sport package and out of spec.
"AO" rated tires are built and tested to a much higher specification according to Audi, but good luck finding what you need with a "AO" rating in a 20" or 21" rim and an all-season tire.
I was told from someone "in the know" that the local franchise shops received better tires (better meaning less out of round and out of balance) than those purchased over the internet. Now is that only the brand that he worked for I'm not certain, but I doubt it. You won't find too many that will really talk about it except the retired people from that industry or family members.
I know the only two decent Goodyears on my car came from the local franchise Goodyear shop, and when they mounted them they did not even do a road force balance, just a cheap dynamic balance, my Audi Dealer checked them and thy read 12 and 13 lbs. on the Hunter Road Force machine. The other 9 from Tire Rack were all over 21 and over with the exception of the one that read 17 lbs. Fine if you never drive between 58-83 or so MPH. 20 lbs will rattle your teeth out between those speeds.