First real World test results for S8 Plus
04-23-2016, 01:37 PM
#22
Ok. So... Tesla Model S P90D L may only be good for a dozen or so bursts and hit 0 to 60 in around 2.8 seconds. And yes, after that it will get slower... to around 3 seconds. But it is still by far faster than anything that burns gas and has Audi rings. The response time and acceleration is literally sickening. I just got the car yesterday and I now refuse to drive it in any mode other than NORMAL, because anything else literally makes you dizzy. P90D on a low battery will still run circles around S8 and other exotics unless you are well into triple digits.
The battery argument reminds me of the same battery argument that people had for the iPhone. How it could never hold a charge, and how flip phones were still relevant... hell, I see now the rest of the cars as rotary phones.
I know how we are all protective of what we drive, and it is easier to talk crap about the Tesla even though most haven't driven one properly setup or much less own one, but unless you sat in this spaceship called P90D and beat it around for an evening, you really don't know. And if you get low on power, you're back up very quickly with a charge... at a fraction of a cost for gas.
I still burn gas like crazy in my Cayenne Turbo, Boss 302, and the A8 4.0T, but Model S is really on another level. Makes you wonder why we still mess with gas powered vehicles and all of the **** that goes around to make them run.
Model S has no moving parts... just wrap your head around that, the efficiency and the dependability that creates. No engines, no turbos, no rods, no pulleys, no chains, no trannys, not diffs, no hot oils, no internal explosions, no smell, no tanks, no misfires, no tubes, no belts, no pipes, no failures, no leaks, etc... just FREAKISH unbelievable speed.
Oh, and the navigation, music setup, and voice command is second to none. The engines are good for around a MILLION miles (or so they say), and it drives it self and self valets LOL
The battery argument reminds me of the same battery argument that people had for the iPhone. How it could never hold a charge, and how flip phones were still relevant... hell, I see now the rest of the cars as rotary phones.
I know how we are all protective of what we drive, and it is easier to talk crap about the Tesla even though most haven't driven one properly setup or much less own one, but unless you sat in this spaceship called P90D and beat it around for an evening, you really don't know. And if you get low on power, you're back up very quickly with a charge... at a fraction of a cost for gas.
I still burn gas like crazy in my Cayenne Turbo, Boss 302, and the A8 4.0T, but Model S is really on another level. Makes you wonder why we still mess with gas powered vehicles and all of the **** that goes around to make them run.
Model S has no moving parts... just wrap your head around that, the efficiency and the dependability that creates. No engines, no turbos, no rods, no pulleys, no chains, no trannys, not diffs, no hot oils, no internal explosions, no smell, no tanks, no misfires, no tubes, no belts, no pipes, no failures, no leaks, etc... just FREAKISH unbelievable speed.
Oh, and the navigation, music setup, and voice command is second to none. The engines are good for around a MILLION miles (or so they say), and it drives it self and self valets LOL
Last edited by DirtyVegasTT; 04-23-2016 at 09:47 PM.
04-25-2016, 11:52 AM
#23
AudiWorld Super User
And the interior quality is not even close to the A8/S8. Is the Tesla a good car? I think so. But it still remains to be seen whether the longevity is there and if they can mass produce. It also cannot do what I often do with all my vehicles, drive 500 miles without stopping. I think EV's will get there eventually and Tesla has done an excellent job of showing what the performance can be.
Also the Model S does have moving parts. It has differentials filled with oil. They do fail. The information is out there.
Also the Model S does have moving parts. It has differentials filled with oil. They do fail. The information is out there.
04-25-2016, 07:23 PM
#24
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
And the interior quality is not even close to the A8/S8. Is the Tesla a good car? I think so. But it still remains to be seen whether the longevity is there and if they can mass produce. It also cannot do what I often do with all my vehicles, drive 500 miles without stopping. I think EV's will get there eventually and Tesla has done an excellent job of showing what the performance can be.
Also the Model S does have moving parts. It has differentials filled with oil. They do fail. The information is out there.
Also the Model S does have moving parts. It has differentials filled with oil. They do fail. The information is out there.
Also, it looks the same in most basic form as it does in twice expensive edition, even S550 differentiates more from S63/65.
As far as mileage, I'm sorry to admit that 500 miles range is a pipe dream in my case, have to refuel in less then 200 miles for which I blame my right foot.
04-27-2016, 01:15 PM
#25
Ok. So... Tesla Model S P90D L may only be good for a dozen or so bursts and hit 0 to 60 in around 2.8 seconds. And yes, after that it will get slower... to around 3 seconds. But it is still by far faster than anything that burns gas and has Audi rings. The response time and acceleration is literally sickening. I just got the car yesterday and I now refuse to drive it in any mode other than NORMAL, because anything else literally makes you dizzy. P90D on a low battery will still run circles around S8 and other exotics unless you are well into triple digits.
The battery argument reminds me of the same battery argument that people had for the iPhone. How it could never hold a charge, and how flip phones were still relevant... hell, I see now the rest of the cars as rotary phones.
I know how we are all protective of what we drive, and it is easier to talk crap about the Tesla even though most haven't driven one properly setup or much less own one, but unless you sat in this spaceship called P90D and beat it around for an evening, you really don't know. And if you get low on power, you're back up very quickly with a charge... at a fraction of a cost for gas.
I still burn gas like crazy in my Cayenne Turbo, Boss 302, and the A8 4.0T, but Model S is really on another level. Makes you wonder why we still mess with gas powered vehicles and all of the **** that goes around to make them run.
Model S has no moving parts... just wrap your head around that, the efficiency and the dependability that creates. No engines, no turbos, no rods, no pulleys, no chains, no trannys, not diffs, no hot oils, no internal explosions, no smell, no tanks, no misfires, no tubes, no belts, no pipes, no failures, no leaks, etc... just FREAKISH unbelievable speed.
Oh, and the navigation, music setup, and voice command is second to none. The engines are good for around a MILLION miles (or so they say), and it drives it self and self valets LOL
The battery argument reminds me of the same battery argument that people had for the iPhone. How it could never hold a charge, and how flip phones were still relevant... hell, I see now the rest of the cars as rotary phones.
I know how we are all protective of what we drive, and it is easier to talk crap about the Tesla even though most haven't driven one properly setup or much less own one, but unless you sat in this spaceship called P90D and beat it around for an evening, you really don't know. And if you get low on power, you're back up very quickly with a charge... at a fraction of a cost for gas.
I still burn gas like crazy in my Cayenne Turbo, Boss 302, and the A8 4.0T, but Model S is really on another level. Makes you wonder why we still mess with gas powered vehicles and all of the **** that goes around to make them run.
Model S has no moving parts... just wrap your head around that, the efficiency and the dependability that creates. No engines, no turbos, no rods, no pulleys, no chains, no trannys, not diffs, no hot oils, no internal explosions, no smell, no tanks, no misfires, no tubes, no belts, no pipes, no failures, no leaks, etc... just FREAKISH unbelievable speed.
Oh, and the navigation, music setup, and voice command is second to none. The engines are good for around a MILLION miles (or so they say), and it drives it self and self valets LOL
Sounds like you are ready for that Tesla!! Good for you!! Go get 'em tiger.
I like lots of other cars too and own them too!
I have had to pick my buddy up twice from him running out of battery in his tesla.
And in my neighborhood, there are more tesla's than Corolla's.
04-27-2016, 03:58 PM
#26
I was talking from my ownership experience and I'm really impressed with your neighborhood.
04-27-2016, 03:59 PM
#27
AudiWorld Super User
Oh, by the way, besides the obvious moving motor and innards and the normal brakes and the A/C compressors and..., there are the moving door handles. Local joke is you are always supposed to wear your Yoga pants driving them like the many a soccer mom. That way when (not if) they fail to work you can climb over the seats and try to get to the driver's area. Apparently not so easy, and my relatively direct info is they continue to break. S specific. Won't even get into the gullwing doors and all that. Moving parts not the brightest thing on some Audi quasi gimmicks like MMI screen and B&O speakers, but they don't leave car essentially inaccessible like basic door handle function and popped open balky doors can and do.
Fortunately, they apparently have resolved at least some of the issues in the moving motor part too. Apparently early on it was not unusual to see full motor replaces in way under 50K. Some several times. Then there are the battery packs. And oh yes, there are cooling complexities too, and breakdowns. Those are in the battery pack arena in this case. So, for this supposedly simple drivetrain, those are some pretty basic and big bucks parts. Imagine if the quasi routine was to expect to get your motor and maybe tranny replaced under 4/50. That would not be a brand value winner, warranty or not. My own info aside, the Consumer Reports tracking is more comprehensive, but also consistent with the word behind the scenes.
Yes, Tesla good at fixing, even with a smile, and managing to market it somehow to happy owners. But the money has to come from somewhere. So far it is basically a combination of equity funny money and government dole wrapped around every one. They are particularly adept at getting government agencies...and battery co's as big as Panasonic's parent co...and...to fork over the dollars. See this NYT/Reuters story, literally just today: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2016/...anty.html?_r=0 At some point, you have to be competitive on repair costs too and be self sustaining. The hidden equity dollars and other effectively direct subsidies mask a lot of this. BTW, also notice per the article despite the talk of over the air updates and such (which is definitely good, but then FCA is doing it too so not necessarily unique), they are issuing what sound exactly like TSB's to me. Maybe more than a few. Oops.
As a few have said, commendable early effort. And I'll be looking at it seriously in next generation. Oh and they did once again play the "we're not updating game" through even a month ago, though just a month earlier for those of us awake they let slip there would be more than just the Model 3 announce not otherwise explained a head of time. They played that same fool me once game right before the rev's that were needed to facilitate better electronics and quasi autonomous, leaving prior owners to buy a new one in their frequent trade up market. So, the S got a rev a few weeks ago with some styling changes outside, more competitive features for segment like LED headlights availability, and some improvements to the oft critiqued interior beyond the ginormous iPad. And yes, more money for various of these. And I guess once again, prior buyers even weeks preceding missed that one. My neighbor for example got the cool brand new P85 for the big bucks... just before the electronics rev and the D (AWD option). Then I see he recently turned it in for the 90D this go. Oops, that was a week or two before the new rev. I guess... The "old" grill as a tip off. Doesn't even have plates yet. Not that I get why modeling a revision on the X ugly ducking (like X6, laughable ZDX and various others) is a good move, but yet another discussion. Net I figure if not leasing he's in about $200K so far at something like two years with the earlier depreciation on quasi top dollar. Not uncommon locally to see 3x repeats on these. Tesla is making some fine money with the iPhone model, just at 1500x the price. Still have to crack the reliability issue and cost drag though, and bigger picture see if it flies without so many of the direct and indirect subsidies.
Fortunately, they apparently have resolved at least some of the issues in the moving motor part too. Apparently early on it was not unusual to see full motor replaces in way under 50K. Some several times. Then there are the battery packs. And oh yes, there are cooling complexities too, and breakdowns. Those are in the battery pack arena in this case. So, for this supposedly simple drivetrain, those are some pretty basic and big bucks parts. Imagine if the quasi routine was to expect to get your motor and maybe tranny replaced under 4/50. That would not be a brand value winner, warranty or not. My own info aside, the Consumer Reports tracking is more comprehensive, but also consistent with the word behind the scenes.
Yes, Tesla good at fixing, even with a smile, and managing to market it somehow to happy owners. But the money has to come from somewhere. So far it is basically a combination of equity funny money and government dole wrapped around every one. They are particularly adept at getting government agencies...and battery co's as big as Panasonic's parent co...and...to fork over the dollars. See this NYT/Reuters story, literally just today: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2016/...anty.html?_r=0 At some point, you have to be competitive on repair costs too and be self sustaining. The hidden equity dollars and other effectively direct subsidies mask a lot of this. BTW, also notice per the article despite the talk of over the air updates and such (which is definitely good, but then FCA is doing it too so not necessarily unique), they are issuing what sound exactly like TSB's to me. Maybe more than a few. Oops.
As a few have said, commendable early effort. And I'll be looking at it seriously in next generation. Oh and they did once again play the "we're not updating game" through even a month ago, though just a month earlier for those of us awake they let slip there would be more than just the Model 3 announce not otherwise explained a head of time. They played that same fool me once game right before the rev's that were needed to facilitate better electronics and quasi autonomous, leaving prior owners to buy a new one in their frequent trade up market. So, the S got a rev a few weeks ago with some styling changes outside, more competitive features for segment like LED headlights availability, and some improvements to the oft critiqued interior beyond the ginormous iPad. And yes, more money for various of these. And I guess once again, prior buyers even weeks preceding missed that one. My neighbor for example got the cool brand new P85 for the big bucks... just before the electronics rev and the D (AWD option). Then I see he recently turned it in for the 90D this go. Oops, that was a week or two before the new rev. I guess... The "old" grill as a tip off. Doesn't even have plates yet. Not that I get why modeling a revision on the X ugly ducking (like X6, laughable ZDX and various others) is a good move, but yet another discussion. Net I figure if not leasing he's in about $200K so far at something like two years with the earlier depreciation on quasi top dollar. Not uncommon locally to see 3x repeats on these. Tesla is making some fine money with the iPhone model, just at 1500x the price. Still have to crack the reliability issue and cost drag though, and bigger picture see if it flies without so many of the direct and indirect subsidies.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 04-27-2016 at 04:16 PM.
04-27-2016, 04:12 PM
#28
I'm not worried about most of what you said because it is a lease. A better lease than what Audi offers on A8 and especially on the S8. In 3 years I (and most others) will be in something else. So in the meantime I get to play with something new, unique, very fast and different, while others are quoting old reliability issues and financial articles. Look, I'm not marrying the Tesla brand, I'm just sleeping with Model S. But all that is a lot of talk, I'd rather drive. Plus, I still have the A8L 4.0T.
Oh, by the way, besides the obvious moving motor innards, there are the moving door handles. Local joke is you are always supposed to wear your Yoga pants driving them like the many a soccer mom. That way when (not if) they fail to work you can climb over the seats and try to get to the driver's area. Apparently not so easy, and my relatively direct info is they continue to break. S specific. Won't even get into the gullwing doors and all that. Moving parts not the brightest thing on some Audi quasi gimmicks like MMI screen and B&O speakers, but they don't leave car essentially inaccessible like basic door handle function and popped open balky doors can and do.
Fortunately, they apparently have resolved at least some of the issues in the moving motor part too. Apparently early on it was not unusual to see full motor replaces in way under 50K. Some several times. Then there are the battery packs. And oh yes, there are cooling complexities too, and breakdowns. Those are in the battery pack arena in this case. So, for this supposedly simple drivetrain, those are some pretty basic and big bucks parts. Imagine if the quasi routine was to expect to get your motor and maybe tranny replaced under 4/50. That would not be a brand value winner, warranty or not. My own info aside, the Consumer Reports tracking is more comprehensive, but also consistent with the word on the street behind the scenes.
Yes, Tesla good at fixing, even with a smile, and managing to market it somehow to happy owners. But the money has to come from somewhere. So far it is basically a combination of equity funny money and government dole wrapped around every one. They are particularly adept at getting government agencies...and battery co's as big as Panasonic's parent co...and...to fork over the dollars. See this NYT/Reuters story, literally just today: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2016/...anty.html?_r=0 At some point, you have to be competitive on repair costs too and be self sustaining. The hidden equity dollars and other effectively direct subsidies mask a lot of this. BTW, also notice per the article despite the talk of over the air updates and such (which is definitely good, but then FCA is doing it too so not necessarily unique), they are issuing what sound exactly like TSB's to me. Maybe more than a few. Oops.
As a few have said, commendable early effort. And I'll be looking at it seriously in next generation. Oh and they did once again play the "we're not updating game" through even a month ago, even though earlier they let slip there would be more than just the Model 3 announce. They played that same fool me once game right before the rev's that were needed to facilitate better electronics and quasi autonomous, leaving prior owners to buy a new one in their frequent trade up market. So, the S got a rev a few weeks ago with some styling changes outside, more competitive features for segment like LED headlights, and some improvements to the oft critiqued interior beyond the ginormous iPad. And I guess once again, prior buyers even weeks preceding missed that one. My neighbor for example got the cool brand new P85 for the big bucks... just before the electronics rev and the D (AWD option). Then I see he recently turned it in for the 90D this go. Oops, that was a week or two before the new rev. I guess... The "old" grill as a tip off. Not that I get why modeling a revision on the X ugly ducking (like X6, laughable ZDX and various others) is a good move, but yet another discussion. Net I figure if not leasing he's in about $200K so far with the earlier depreciation on quasi top dollar. Not uncommon locally to see 3x repeats on these. Tesla is making fine money with the iPhone model, just at 1500x the price.
Fortunately, they apparently have resolved at least some of the issues in the moving motor part too. Apparently early on it was not unusual to see full motor replaces in way under 50K. Some several times. Then there are the battery packs. And oh yes, there are cooling complexities too, and breakdowns. Those are in the battery pack arena in this case. So, for this supposedly simple drivetrain, those are some pretty basic and big bucks parts. Imagine if the quasi routine was to expect to get your motor and maybe tranny replaced under 4/50. That would not be a brand value winner, warranty or not. My own info aside, the Consumer Reports tracking is more comprehensive, but also consistent with the word on the street behind the scenes.
Yes, Tesla good at fixing, even with a smile, and managing to market it somehow to happy owners. But the money has to come from somewhere. So far it is basically a combination of equity funny money and government dole wrapped around every one. They are particularly adept at getting government agencies...and battery co's as big as Panasonic's parent co...and...to fork over the dollars. See this NYT/Reuters story, literally just today: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2016/...anty.html?_r=0 At some point, you have to be competitive on repair costs too and be self sustaining. The hidden equity dollars and other effectively direct subsidies mask a lot of this. BTW, also notice per the article despite the talk of over the air updates and such (which is definitely good, but then FCA is doing it too so not necessarily unique), they are issuing what sound exactly like TSB's to me. Maybe more than a few. Oops.
As a few have said, commendable early effort. And I'll be looking at it seriously in next generation. Oh and they did once again play the "we're not updating game" through even a month ago, even though earlier they let slip there would be more than just the Model 3 announce. They played that same fool me once game right before the rev's that were needed to facilitate better electronics and quasi autonomous, leaving prior owners to buy a new one in their frequent trade up market. So, the S got a rev a few weeks ago with some styling changes outside, more competitive features for segment like LED headlights, and some improvements to the oft critiqued interior beyond the ginormous iPad. And I guess once again, prior buyers even weeks preceding missed that one. My neighbor for example got the cool brand new P85 for the big bucks... just before the electronics rev and the D (AWD option). Then I see he recently turned it in for the 90D this go. Oops, that was a week or two before the new rev. I guess... The "old" grill as a tip off. Not that I get why modeling a revision on the X ugly ducking (like X6, laughable ZDX and various others) is a good move, but yet another discussion. Net I figure if not leasing he's in about $200K so far with the earlier depreciation on quasi top dollar. Not uncommon locally to see 3x repeats on these. Tesla is making fine money with the iPhone model, just at 1500x the price.
04-27-2016, 04:20 PM
#29
AudiWorld Super User
I'm not worried about most of what you said because it is a lease. A better lease than what Audi offers on A8 and especially on the S8. In 3 years I (and most others) will be in something else. So in the meantime I get to play with something new, unique, very fast and different, while others are quoting old reliability issues and financial articles. Look, I'm not marrying the Tesla brand, I'm just sleeping with Model S. But all that is a lot of talk, I'd rather drive. Plus, I still have the A8L 4.0T.
However, I think you need to be more sober on reliability. That article is literally TODAY. Not the first, or second, or tenth now. But new info, and now from financial angle that can be somewhat validated. Tesla saying they reduced costs on warranty by 400 percent (whatever that means) is not a great story line. Audi used to do that too--trust us, the new ones are better. Really. It took them probably 25 years to move from lousy to mediocre to near top of pack per newer owner surveys.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 04-27-2016 at 09:25 PM.
04-27-2016, 06:57 PM
#30
I only mentioned Model S because people are beating on the car because they want to, not from experience, and that's fine. Hate it or love it - it doesn't really matter until you own one. Since I own both cars I feel like I was in a good place to give my feedback, but I'm no longer interested and in no way trying to convince anyone here of anything really. Other than saying that most comments here are coming from people who just don't know. Period.