GR8-LIFE

Problem is this isn't an apples to apples replacement. You are replacing drivetrain technology, a technology wil eliminates many drivetrain issues. If AUDI were to release alectric transportation tha too would suffice as a good replacement for the A8. And as you say, the S is in no way as luxurious than the A8

I AM with you on AUDI though, but the problem also exists with MERC and BMW's. Just go TO their forums and you will see. JD Powers also will give you a hint. There is a good reason why German sedans don't get high marks. Its more of a pick your poison with the german sedans. For some odd reason, Porsche is the only german car that has minimal issues but they don't make many sedans and the 1or 2 they do make are a bit hideous


I too am crossing my fingers on my A8. I proabaly wont get another AUDI DD (or any german DD for that matter) and I can only hope that 6 years from now there will be better options and that I will have minimal heartache in the next 6-7 years.

GR8-LIFE

Bigboy11 is correct. My S4 was a lemon and I did not need an attorney. Legal industry is a big sham on many things you can do yourself. Just read the statute

Most states allow you 24 months on lemon laws and are clear on how many repairs/problems qualify for a lemon. Personally, after 18 months of S4 issues, I tried AoA's first line of defense and asked for a buy back. They somewhat chuckled and said NFW. Then I filed a BBB complaint and before I knew it, I was contacted by the VW Group for a buy back or credit towards a trade. I suspect AUDI doesn't want to pay their legal team when they know they can lose because It becomes public record. So they rather just pay you according to the law and have you be on your way without public record and legal fees shelled out to their legal team


Understand that Lemon laws in most cases are a per-diem pro rating based on how many miles you put on the car in the 24 months. I had about 14K miles in 18 months. The equation resulted ina payback of $46,800 (more or less) of the $51K (OTD) that I paid. The good news is they also pay for the tax (which was included in the $45,800)

Considering depreciation, this was actually a good result and almost 2 years later I used the money for an R8 Spyder (which I am sure AUDI was glad to hear - lol)


In agreeing with Bigboy11, however, I also understand the OP's point in that AUDI has issues with making cars. But again, I still think its an inherent German issue rather than only AUDI

derfA8L

With a wide spread of problems going wrong with your car, if it were me, I'd find a way to have my dealer arrange a meeting so I could sit down and go over all this with the regional Audi service rep. Although you may not feel it from a particular dealer's service staff, I'm pretty sure that AoA wants/needs as satisfied an A8 customer base as possible. A respectful discussion focused on identifying what's wrong with your car and what course of remedial action would be necessary to correct those issues, and keep you in your A8, may actually bring you to a satisfactory resolution; it's worked it in the past with some others...and for me as well when, at the time, my new 2006 A8 had a disconcerting sound coming from the front of the car in the engine compartment,when the car was turned a certain way, that my dealer couldn't isolate after a few return attempts. On my behalf, they got the zone rep involved and had further authorization to get to the bottom of the problem---turns out there was structural bar behind the instrument panel that needed reinforcement---problem solved.

A design flaw that can't be readily corrected is one thing, but virtually everything that seems to be going on with your car appears fixable---yes, you shouldn't have to deal with all that, and certainly doesn't meet one's expectations for a brand's flagship vehicle...so I'd try to use that to your advantage with the regional rep. If you can get the regional rep on the case, and If they can't fix your car to your ultimate satisfaction at that level of involvement, then you might have him on your side and be able to negotiate something akin to a vehicle replacement, or perhaps some kind of refund. Believe it or not, it's been done in the past.

Look, I know that it's a long shot that AoA will easily hand over a new A8 or a monetary refund, but I'd want to start the higher level dialogue process to try to get to a more planned satisfactory end to this negative experience---including actually fixing your car to your satisfaction.

BTW...go over to a Porsche Panamera forum and see what suspension noise problems have surfaced over there. You'll see how dealers initially do only what they can within the parameters of TSBs and other directives from Porsche---but when a regional service rep gets involved, customers report a better experience with successful repairs. Sometimes it takes authorization for a regional factory tech to be assigned to your car to get things sorted out.

At any rate, good luck on whatever happens and whatever direction you go.

mishar

That may be truth with the first power unit swap but the next, or at least the fifth one must be revised one. Than why the sixth one? I am positive that it is about aggressive driving, but 0-60 was the first thing you pointed. Actually that's the first thing the sales representative pointed to with "floor it". For $100K+ I would expect that I can use all of those kilowatts. If you ever checked electric motors you can find that real 400KW motor is almost heavier than whole Tesla S. This one is size of 20KW motor. Electric motors can produce much more power for a short period of time. Use it at your will and you will burn it just like many guys did.

I can see much resemblance with Windows. Good reason to buy Mac (Audi)

And after that it will have value of a scrap metal because nobody will buy it. Like old PC.

motegi

The Edmunds car only had 3(4) drive unit replacements.

The Consumer Reports car had none.

Again, you will see that the newer cars have not had the drive unit failures. I believe the issue has been remedied.

So funny you should say that. I was a Unix guy who switched to Windows and now am fully Mac/iOS... I just want something that works without as much downtime/troubleshooting. That's why I left Windows and went to Mac.

My Audi has spent more time at the dealer this past month than I've had it in my possession. Each issue would take at least 5 days to over a week to fix. And each time it came back, another issue would present itself within a matter of days. It was almost comical. Kinda like my old HP desktop PC....

But frankly, a base model Audi Q5 loaner is not what I wanted to be driving with visiting family for the holidays when I purchased an A8L. It's like having paid for a Mac Pro and having to use a loaner Mac Mini instead. The only other choice available was an A5. Not exactly a good car to shuttle the parents and sister in.

This may be very true down the road. But right now demand is high and supply is low.

When I was at the Tesla dealer I saw multiple people trading in their 6-9 month old P85s for the P85D. Even the salesman commented that customers are changing them like they change their iPhones... When I asked what they are getting for their trade in and was surprised at how much value that they retain. Currently, the wait time for a new Model S is 3 months from time of ordering. Because of the continued demand and limited supply, the salesman said that the preowned ones sell almost as soon as they get them in.

Until now I've always purchased my cars with cash. I've never leased or financed. Again I have always bought cars for the long term and kept them for many years. Typically 6-8. As long as they were mechanically sound I would keep driving them. I always followed the manufacturer maintenance recs and many of my cars I drove over 150k miles before trading in.

As for Tesla I think you may be right with the PC analogy or perhaps more appropriately the smartphone analogy. If I get a Tesla it would most likely be a lease as I really can't predict what the resale will be like in the future once the demand dies down. It could very well be like the iPhone of cars.

Of course I don't see my A8 holding its value very well over the long term either. Have you seen what they sell for at Carmax just a 4-5 years down the line?

I suppose if I wanted a car with good resale I'd need to look at a Honda or a Lexus. LOL.

motegi

That is an excellent idea. I've been speaking to Audi Customer Care regarding some of the issues and they were the ones who directed me to the dealer that I am now using which although much further away has provided excellent service. Audi Customer Care has been very helpful in my dealings with them. However they have never escalated my issues to a higher level. Unfortunately the car itself is what is the problem.

I will speak with my service advisor at the dealership the next time my car is in for service and ask if he can get me in touch with the regional rep. My service advisor is well aware of the continuous stream of issues that I've had with this car and I think is somewhat ashamed of what I've had to go through to this point.

Again, I really love the A8Ls features and the way it drives. I truly wanted it to be my daily driver for the next 5-10 years. But I just can't take the constant mechanical/electrical issues that I've suffered in the 8 months of ownership. I just don't forsee it getting any better over time.

GR8-LIFE

Unfortunately Tesla's next model, which is expected to be priced like the 3 series, still has a limited 200 mile range and again, many factors will reduce this range (A/C, hills)

2016 Tesla Model III Specs, Price, Trim Levels, User Reviews, Photos & Buying Advice

motegi

We shall see what the Detroit Auto Show brings!

Battery technology definitely has room for improvement. Not just in cars but in consumer products in general.

As far as the Tesla range issues, as long as your daily commute does not exceed the range limit this is much less of an issue than people make it out to be.

When you get home you just plug it in to the charger in your garage. Simple as that. It's not like you have to drive to the Supercharger every night.

Honestly, do that many people really drive more than 250 miles per day on a daily basis? If your daily commute is greater than this then the Tesla is probably not a good option for you. Perhaps a diesel?

I've calculated that for an average use of 15,000 miles per year (41 miles per day) the daily energy use could be recharged using the Tesla at home charger in 40 minutes and with an overall electricity cost of only 79 cents per day based on current energy rates in my area. Thats just $288.35 per year.

So every morning you go out to the garage and you are back at full capacity. I certainly wish my gasoline cars would refill themselves every night. The worst is when I want to take one of my weekend toys for a spin and find that the tank is low. Especially if I'm on my way to a show or a car club event.

Even if you project out to driving 100 miles per day (That's 36,500 miles per year!) the charging will take less than 2 hours and under $2 per day in electricity. Or less than $750 per year. Unless you're a driver for Uber, I highly doubt that anyone here puts that many miles on their A8s on a yearly basis. Even with this annual mileage you would not be having any range issues as long as you charge your vehicle every night or every other night.

I guess in a way it's again like a cell phone. As long as I plug in my phones every evening on my nightstand I have no issues with battery life throughout the day. Now if I forget to charge them then it becomes an issue and I may have to use a charger at work (like having to use the Tesla Supercharger station or a EV parking slot at work).

And again, the Supercharger infrastructure is expanding quite rapidly. Just look at the map in the links I provided above as well as the projected expansion in 2015. Also the battery swap stations look like a very promising alternative as well if you cannot wait the 30 minutes for a charge and want to be back on the road in 90 seconds. LOL.

In reality my wife and I really don't drive long distances very often. Most weekend trips are well under 240 miles from home. Day trips are typically less than 100 miles each direction. Every few years we may go further but we usually like to stop every 3-4 hours or so for a rest/lunch/snack/bathroom/driver change anyway so having to stop near a supercharger wouldn't really be an inconvenience. In the 8 months of ownership of my A8L I've never driven it for greater than 240 miles in a single stint let alone driven for the entire range of a tank without stopping. I think my bladder would explode!

Of course anytime the distance is large my wife and I would rather just fly or take a cruise!

But, in the end, if my A8L was even remotely reliable none of this discussion would have taken place and I'd happily be planning to attend the next Audi Club regional event. I suppose that's just how the cookie crumbles...

mishar

It seems to me that you missed this part:

Tesla owner forums gave scant comfort. A Tesla Motor Club poll of 87 Model S owners revealed that a startling 28 of them had had their drive units replaced, a rate of 32 percent. Five of them (6 percent) had had multiple replacements.

(We should note that due to the poll's built-in selection bias, that percentage of drive-unit replacements is probably not representative of the larger Model S population.)

On Tesla's own website forum, dozens of owners weighed in with their tales of drive unit woes.

"Every car in my area has had at least one DU replaced," noted one. "I'm on my fifth drivetrain at 12,000 miles," reported another.

One poor fellow was on his sixth--as far as we know, the record for drive-unit futility.

motegi

On that note perhaps my A8 would need to be nominated to be the poster child for D4 warranty concerns.

Again I think if you take a deeper look into the Tesla drive unit saga, most were not replaced due to failure but a change in the sound characteristic.

Also it would be beneficial to see a breakdown of drive unit replacement based on production VIN number of the vehicles involved. The trailing numbers in the Model S VIN indicate the sequential order of the vehicles production. From what I have read it was the lower numbers (earlier production) that had the Drive Unit issues.

Regardless, Tesla has been replacing the Drive Units at no cost to the owners and with minimal resistance. Most of these replacements occur in just 24 hours with the owners bring provided complimentary pick up/drop off valet service and a Model S to use while theirs is being serviced.

Contrast that to my experience with Audi whether it was a check engine light for a cam sensor or a suspension noise that I provided the techs with multiple video recordings, each issue has required more than one visit consuming upwards of 5-7 days of more per visit and hundreds of miles of diagnostic driving by the techs in total. Oftentimes I get an A8 to use (usually less equipped than mine) and just as many times I receive a different model such as a Q5, A6, etc. If the service only took a day or two that is acceptable, but when my car is spending more time in service than in my possession that becomes a concern because I bought an A8 to own and drive and not a Q5 or A6.

So in my view there is a clear difference between how these two companies when it comes to warranty related concerns, speed of service, and responsiveness to owners concerns.

I know that yourself and many others here are Audi enthusiasts and completely devoted to the brand and I truly wish that I had the same positive experience as you. As I mentioned, one of the first things that I did when I bought my car was to join the Audi Club. I've always been a huge fan of Audis prototype racing efforts and a huge LeMans series fan for years. Unfortunately my Audi ownership experience has been very poor thus far.

There is really no need to cry over spilled milk or attempt to point out the flaws of Tesla to try to make Audis issues somehow less significant. Apparently i have a particularly faulty car. While most of these faults are not just isolated to my D4, it is the fact that they all seem to be occurring in rapid succession that makes my situation different than most others. Certainly, if the faults of my A8 were minor, easily repairable, and/or dealt with more expeditiously then it wouldn't be as disruptive and I wouldn't be writing this.

Any automaker and any particular vehicle model will have its own specific issues but it is the way that the brand addresses these issues, how they respond to owner concerns, and the impact that it has on the owners that I find most educational.

As an aside I am presently awaiting the Audi suspension parts to become available from backorder status and take my A8 back to the dealer again for the repairs. Afterward, perhaps the stars will magically align and my A8 will finally rid itself of its demons. One can only hope! Please keep your fingers crossed for my A8...