arU4ic

No judgement, I've staged one'd most of the turbo cars I've owned, BUT actually Salvadorik, not everyone knows this and if you lease the car, it's irresponsible because some else (another Audi brotha or sistah) will get the car and guaranteed the dealer won't tell the buyer its got a TD1 in-order to sell the car.

Anyway, my main point is that not everyone knows this… and if we don't educate people here… well.

sgt_cr

haha Im guessing thats a pretty smart answer

so having a flashed ECU and driving it fast or pushing it to the limits will make it to blow easier?

What would be to considered push the card hard and what would be safe?

mikele

If Audi has done it correctly, it is not a "mater of time" until someone figures it out. Some systems have no backdoors. Instructions can be embedded on the chip during the manufacturing process and it is quite easy to make parts of the code untouchable. Any part of a device's code that can be eventually accessed by a hardworking, crafty person seeking to alter that code is that way because the device's manufacturer saw a need that they might want to alter the code, but don't want you to. Hence, it can be done in certain circumstances and not in others, but is incredibly difficult, costly and time consuming unless you are the original code writers and have the auto scripts that are written to make the process smooth and timely. This is not like flashing firmware. I know because I have worked on and designed such systems. There are many systems you can not alter at all without destroying the ability of the system to function or at the very least leaving a record of your incursion and what you did. Also, given the connectivity of the S3/A3 and every new Audi design going forward, I would not be the slightest bit surprised to find Audi can extract data/logs from your car at will.

Audi is/has closed the doors and in reality, why should't they? They sell you and warranty a particular product and commit to reliability and performance based on what they sell you. You alter it and you want them to pay up if there is a problem or you want them to have to prove to your mod had no role in the failure? Not reasonable or legally supportable. Once you break the seal you are own your own. As a business man, I believe that is exactly how it should be. I support all of you doing any mods you want. It is your car. I don't support the idea Audi should in any way bear any responsibility once you do.

smooth 1

I work with Audi, not for them. My oldest son however, is the master service tech for our areas largest dealership, and heads up their sponsored racing division. They currently are running 3 R8's and are about to expand to the new A3's.
And let me be clear about this, as I have had these conversations with the right people and have seen and done this myself. Audi isn't trying to bring any more attention to this then whats needed. They aren't going to start running ads to inform everyone that aftermarket work and reflashes are going to void the warranty. Overall, this is a small issue, as they benefit from it, and they suffer from it. Audi has a very rich racing history, and has earned tons of respect. Thus, Audi has a poplular name in the tuner/street/mod scenes because of whats available. They suffer from it because poor attempts, misuse/abuse, and dishonest people try to claim Audi is at fault and should pay for the repairs, which enables more abuse/misuse at the expense of both their brand and reputation, as well as financially. They aren't out to shut down the modding and racing scene that has helped make Audi what it is. They just want an honest relationship.
So...if you buy a new Audi now...you get a warranty with it. If you retune it, and put on aftermarket stuff...and don't have any problems...just regular service...then you'll more than likely be ok. But if you go in for service...and they inspect and find an issue that causes them to investigate..then they will find out. Even if you have flashed it back to stock. In fact...all major warranty claims have to have a cleared ODIS scan report attached before Audi will approve the work.
And remember...Audi and the Audi engineers have a lot more programs, tools and information systems that they simply don't allow access to at the dealership level. The service department is trained and controlled. This isn't really anything new. It's just Audi, and BMW along with MB and others have created a better interface to provide this specific information and are just now allowing the dealerships access to this part of the programs for it. There will be more to come.

@PennDutch....I'm not so sure anymore. Normally I would agree with you as technology moves so fast. But the fact is Toyota/Lexus, along with Nissan and Honda have huge aftermarket supports...and no one has been able to crack their ECU's. You literally have to purchase and aftermarket one and develop A/F maps all on your own. It's been at least 10 years or so now. Also look at shrinking aftermarket stereo market...the technological advantage is clearly on the car makers side now. The pendulum may swing again...but if millions of dollars are out there for Toyota, Nissan, and Honda and still can't get done..then I don't really know how much effort the aftermarket can put into disabling the flag units now being programmed in.
This has all just started 2014 by the way. If you actually did the retune 15 years ago, and flashed it back to stock before service visits..you would have been fine. Not the case now though.

salvadorik

Smooth 1, thanks for your very informative post. Time will show if in fact tuning ECU has gotten Audi's attention to the extent you described. IMO, Audi will lose considerable number of customers, if they start to crack down so aggressively. One of the main reasons why people go with Audi performance vehicles (S and RS models) is that there is a very robust aftermarket support. Yes, Toyota/Lexus is very diligent at protecting its ECU on its vehicles but the large number of sale is mainly due to the unsurpassed quality of its mechanical and electrical parts. Audi unfortunately does not produce the cars that last the way Lexus does. So if Audi does pursue this route they'd better start making reliable cars if they really want to compete in the market.

arU4ic

"They just want an honest relationship."

Smooth1, this is BEST way (in my 15 years reading posts about mod-ing turbo cars) that the Manufacturer/Owner relationship has been described. I wish I could make this paragraph autofill whenever anyone starts an engine mod post.

(I know, I know, sometimes the Dealership or AOA feeds us BS, but I still agree with this sentiment.)

joxer

I have a 2006 A4 Avant 6MT which has had the APR Stage 1 on 91 (93 is a pain to get here) for nearly 5 years. Audi has never given me any grief, and in fact replaced the engine at 9 years old and 100,000 miles (160k km) last year under an extended warranty!

That said, I'm pretty unsure about chipping the 1.8T. Sounds like a) the box is only rated for 200 lb/ft of torque, and b) being an automatic I'm not in control of how the shifts are done. Does APR modify things to limit the torque during shifting? Are these clutches themselves much smaller/less able to handle more power than a regular manual?

smooth 1

Ok...lets just clear up the confusing BS post this is.
Of course Audi isn't giving you any problem with your 2006 A4. This thread is for the NEW 2015 ability to detect flashes, reflashes, and aftermarket tuning. Secondly, Audi didn't pay to replace your engine...your warranty company paid Audi to replace your engine.
And you should probably study Audi drivetrain and DSG components and how Stronic works first then. Probably answer your own question. Maybe send a copy of that post to your insurance company....

salvadorik

Hmm... Not very friendly response. I think he just stated his opinion even if it was not 100% perfect. Actually it makes sense what he said. I am sure there will be a lot of folks who opt for getting APR chip on their '15 S3. There will be more information shared down the road. The light will be shed and the truth will be revealed.

joxer

And he is the incorrect one - I don't have a warranty company, never did. See google for camshaft follower - Audi extended their powertrain warranty to 10 years and 120,000 miles for this specific part. VWVortex.com - Warranty extension letter from Audi for intake camshaft, cam follower, fuel pump for instance.

Also, I've seen posts going back to at least 2012 on the TD1 flagging - nothing explicitly says they implemented the change in the cars, but in the testing they do when your car is hooked up for diagnostics. Anyway, this was all just background to say I have modded in the past.

What the comment on 'how S tronic works' means I have no idea. Automated manual, 2 clutches where one handles R 1 3 5 and the other 2 4 6 at least as far as I know in this application. Do I really need to know some other magic to wonder if APR modifies the extra torque during shifts to protect the drivetrain? My extra boost in the A4 is almost always used in gear, eg. rolling on the the throttle from 2200ish to 4500 without downshifting - in non manual mode the S tronic would likely add a shift in there.