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$599 for a front wheel bearing ouch rant

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Old 07-09-2014, 05:28 PM   #1
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Default $599 for a front wheel bearing ouch rant

$365 retail + 2 hours installation = $599. For that money shouldn't they last longer than 105,000 miles?

What idiots at the Kalamazoo, MI stealer. First it took 10 days to get the car in there. No loaner car was offered or available when asked.

I told them it was the RIGHT FRONT bearing. They called saying it was indeed a wheel bearing, and it would cost $599. I said the other side is likely bad too, how much to replace both? Service writer says another $599. You can't tell me there's no economy of scale having the car up on the hoist, paperwork and overhead covered, tools out, etc. So I said button it up and I'll do the other side myself. So they replaced the LEFT front bearing then called me to say after a test drive the other (right) side needs it too. No **** Sherlock!

Next the SW tells me I need to buy new brake pads because the "backing plate" fell off since it was glued on and the brake light will be on because the pad dropped and stretched the sensor cable. Well the pads are nearly brand new, they're aftermarket dustless pads so they have a detachable anti-squeal backer that's separate from the pad, and the red "glue" isn't glue it's anti-squeal compound. The spring clip was indeed detached thanks to a missing push nut but it was easy to fix by peening the mounting stud. The SW called back and offered to install new pads for free. That was nice. I say "thanks anyway" but I already have a set of those dusty OEM pads that dust so badly with only a thousand miles on them and I certainly don't want another pair! Just put the existing pads back in and I'll clean up their mess later.

I ordered the bearing for the other side from genuineaudiparts.com for $269. Unfortunate that I had to diagnose the problem (right bearing, not left) and suggest how to properly repair the car (repair both bearings on the axle).

Sorry for the rant but it really ruined the mood for the night. I feel better already
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Old 07-10-2014, 05:01 AM   #2
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Sorry for your pain. If the write up says "Customer states Right Front Bearing making noise" and they replaced the left and you paid with a credit card dispute it and you got a left one for free. You will get a credit on your card after turning in your documentation to them.
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:47 AM   #3
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Default Part prices

I was startled at the part prices you quoted so I looked around on google.

http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi...4-s5-4h0498625

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...rttype=1672&ck[ID]=0&ck[idlist]=0&ck[viewcurrency]=USD&ck[PHP_SESSION_ID]=cmmq1utat16antcsl2r73953r1

Anyways best of luck with the vehicle. I would take it to an indy shop before taking it to the dealer.
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Old 07-12-2014, 11:06 AM   #4
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You can't really compare aftermarket brand parts to gen-you-whine Audi (or any other OEM) parts for price. They'll always be cheaper, but then you have to ask about quality. Often it is there, sometimes it is not.

And Rockauto has to be taken with a grain of salt. I've seen plenty of Delco parts listed for Toyotas--which simply don't use Delco parts. Rockauto's magic database should have "Trust but Verify" stamped on every page.

Dealer pricing? Yes, sometimes they are nuts. FWIW if you have a AAA, Costco, or other affinity group, some of them have an up-front 10-15% discount from dealers, and if you take that to another local dealer who is not in the program? They are often smart enough to say they'll match it anyhow.
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Old 07-12-2014, 02:34 PM   #5
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$500 is nothing in today's automotive world of repair. And everything is "done by the book"; standard time and rates. Been that way for years.
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Old 07-12-2014, 02:52 PM   #6
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bob, while dealerships have charged by the book for decades (and sometimes by the book plus any surprise time) there still are some fair and honest indy shops that will charge you what the job actually is.

I had a $1300 estimate "by the book" on my old car. The guys who ran their own shop, in business about 50 years now? Said it was a $600 job, tops. Actual bill came out to $200, because the problem wasn't as complicated as the estimate said it could be.

On some things, it can pay to shop around. And to ask flat out, if they can do better. There's no law that says they have to use the book of estimated times, for job charges. All that book really means is that a mechanic who can't do the job faster, isn't all growed up yet.
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Old 07-13-2014, 03:52 AM   #7
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I just wish they would've replaced the bearing on the right side. The car is too bad to drive. It has sat in my garage since Wednesday and the new bearing won't show up until Tuesday at which time I'll install it myself. The proper approach for the dealer should have been either repair the side I told them was bad, or better yet, give one repair quotation for BOTH sides and all would've been well.

It's not the end of the world. My daughter is in Australia for a month so mrs. elevens is tooling around in her car - an Ibis White A4 - usually with the top down
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:12 AM   #8
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Default On part 2 for the DIY on the other bearing...

I hear you on the disappointment.

For what it's worth BTW, on the bearings specifically, I find I can get SKF, *** or other "name brand"/OES quality for less. $81 from AutohausAZ for *** as an example: http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...0Bearing%20Kit When I do these, I stick with the OES type suppliers. I regularly use and like audiusaparts (very similar to genuineaudiparts), but for a few things like O2 sensors, wheel bearings and spark plugs as examples, find I can just get direct OES for a lot less. Some of the OES sets come w/out the bolts and some do; I always replace the bolts now from experience--the trisquare heads on the four inner securing bolts are easy to mess up if the tool is off center or worn, plus I had experience with one which the DEALER had replaced previously where a bolt backed out and led to having to tow car home.

When you get to the bearing work, my experience is to use a press to get the bearing back together with the hub. The bearing shell on any of the newer Audi designs of course just bolts into the steering knuckle casting, but the hub still has to be pressed into the bearing center. I just whack the hub out of the old bearing by locating it over a vise and using a large socket and mallet as the first step. But the whack on it/oft home garage approach can put too much side load on the replacement (new) bearing and can damage it right out of the box. Thus, hopefully you either have a small press, or I would swing by a machine or similar shop and have that step done.
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Prior (each modded): 2000 C5 A6 4.2 & '96 C4 A6 2.8Q, both still w/ family; '85 C3 5000S 5 sp FWD; '73 C1 100LS

helpful cross reference to a C6 post with MMI and other TSB's that also cover D3 A8's.


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Old 07-14-2014, 06:16 AM   #9
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Great info on alternate parts sourcing! Thank you very much. I believe in the case of what I ordered, the bearing comes already pressed into a new hub. We'll see tomorrow. Also thank you on the 4-square advice. If there's no hardware included, I'll go to work with a pick to make sure it's cleaned out well then I'll seat the driver with a few hammer taps.

CHEERS!
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:44 PM   #10
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I concur with going with ***/SKF for quality OES bits. They're the same guys that supply to Audi in the first place. The only difference is they can't sell it with the Audi box. There are a lot of wise guys on here thinking having the Audi name brand is a must. Will I pay dealership prices for a MANN oil filter? Not me. But there's always the people that will pay an arm and a leg to get the "peace of mind". A lot of time it's because they just don't know who makes what. I've been servicing my own cars for 20+ years and the OES brands are just as good. Only when you end up with no-names when they claim they're "equivalents" that you have to question the quality. I would never put no-names on that could become a safety issue, or are mission-critical (to get it home safely). But a cheap copy of mudflaps that are 90% off the real thing? Why not?
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:47 PM   #11
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I hope you had ordered the right part?
[ Not Shown ] REAR SUSPENSION / REAR SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION COMPONENTS / HUB & BEARING
hub & bearing Q5

MSRP Core ? Online Price
$362.17 $0.00 $269.45

It says it's for the rear?
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:12 PM   #12
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Default Follow up...

Not sure if it will be hub plus bearing, or just bearing. I tried to get the combo part for my RS5 brake project in the rear (which needs the RS5 hub to fit RS5 rotors), but found in at least the RS5 scenario you can't get the combined unit.

The Audi dealer OE version may have the center hub bolt and the four trisquare ones. The trisquare ones will probably have the green coating like most any Audi suspension bolt, which they describe as single use; I have always figured the green coating is their version of Lock-Tite and hence their single use guideline. Net, if you find yourself re-using the triquare bolts, make sure to use Lock-Tite on them--as Imentioned I had a dealer installed one back out on my C5.
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Current #2: 2013 Q5 2.0T hybrid; Scuba blue w/ chestnut sport interior; Euro delivery 7/2013 (pictured at Ingolstadt); RS5 front brakes
Prior (each modded): 2000 C5 A6 4.2 & '96 C4 A6 2.8Q, both still w/ family; '85 C3 5000S 5 sp FWD; '73 C1 100LS

helpful cross reference to a C6 post with MMI and other TSB's that also cover D3 A8's.

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Old 07-14-2014, 03:44 PM   #13
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I'd be REALLY p!ssed if a rear bearing shows up but that's not going to happen:

[ 2 ] FRONT SUSPENSION / FRONT SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION COMPONENTS / FRONT WHEEL BEARING
front wheel bearing Q5
Includes: Front Hub.
MSRP Core Online Price
$362.17 $0.00 $269.45



Thanks again 4+6 for the single-use hardware caution. I'll goop them up good with loktite blue. Oddly, the parts diagram doesn't show retaining bolts. That makes me wonder if maybe the hub slides over a splined axle shaft and is held on with a big-**** nut?

http://genuineaudiparts.com/parts/20...iagram=F202030
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12.5 @110mph on the 3rd pass, smog legal on pump gas
Summer: 255-19 Michelin Pilot Sport Plus A/S
Winter: 225-18 Dunlop WinterSport 4D on 7.5" Italias
2010 Q5 Deep Sea Blue Pearl Effect
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carbon cleaned twice :-(
Summer: Continental ExtremeContact DWS on 20" OEM peelers
Winter: Blizzak DM-V1 235-19 on Hartmann TTRS reps
2007 A4 Cab Ibis White/Beige Top
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:23 PM   #14
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Default Standard current Audi bearing/hub design is...

The standard current Audi bearing/hub design is the bearing shell bolts from the inside of the steering knuckle--where the outer CV joint pushes into the hub center area. The hub is pressed onto the sealed bearing at the center of the shell and is through bolted to the splined CV axle. Some Audi CV center bolts have a hex bolt end where you use a conventional metric socket and others use a 17mm allen wrench socket--typically " drive stuff. That bolt is nominally a "stretch" bolt I think, but it's so large I have my doubts. More below.

The art work there from genuineaudiparts (or the same as found with audiusaparts) is frankly lousy in this case. That picture of the hub area is the type found way back on the C3 though C4 era (Audi 5000/100, early A6 and probably through about B5--Audi 80's and 90's) when they used huge circlips to locate a round sealed bearing pressed into a welded up steel steering knuckle. Those were usually a trip to the machine shop to get both out and in, and there were no bearing related bolts. Once things turned aluminum on most of the suspension, they got to the bolt in bearing shell type approach, eliminating both the separate steering knuckle press fit and the circlips. Here's a better Q5 diagram for what is hopefully your model: http://www.partscats.info/audi/en/?i...ent_id=1735929 If you are getting part "23," it looks like it includes the bearing shell bolts (24). Same diagram with (retail) pricing from the jimellisaudiparts site: http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/sho...category=21739. They don't show a price for part "23" or even the bearing; seems like it is smushed in with the steering knuckle (19) in some convoluted way, but not very relevant most likely given your order is about to arrive and probably was confirmed by VIN anyway. As an FYI, Jim Ellis are the only online dealer I know of which uses quasi true EKTA diagrams--apparently the license is really pricy. But GAP or audiusaparts have the better parts pricing usually.

FWIW as you will find on the center CV bolt, the torque is extremely high, second probably only to a center crank bolt on the motor, if even that. I typically use a good (like 5') length of large diameter pipe or my floor jack handle slipped over a long/sturdy " breaker bar. With the right meaty air wrench you might break it loose, but the torque instructions are such that you really need to put it back on by hand--200Nm (148 ft. lbs. I think) PLUS 180 degrees. Hence the need for a huge lever arm. By 180 degrees you will literally be standing and maybe even jumping on the long lever arm (BTDT), so be sure your breaker bar is up to it and you are braced in case the bar breaks at the swivel joint. BTDT too, leading to a trip to Sears with the usual sheepish "I don't know why but the Craftsman wrench just let go one day..."

Good luck w/ it!
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Current #1: '06 D3 A8L W12 brilliant black w/ amaretto; 4 seat setup, CPO; modestly lowered, H&R 20mm rear and 12mm front DRs with 275/35 on OEM polished + forged 20's; S8 sway bars (see: rear bar and gen'l D3 bar info and front bar); tweaked 385mm front factory brake mod and matching rear brake mod; matching C6 A6 back headrests (better rear view: headrest tweak); owner installed AMI retrofit with part number details here. [pics now only in picture poster] Upper control arm reference (+ more info in replies) here. Lower cost D3 OES sway bar links here.
Current #2: 2013 Q5 2.0T hybrid; Scuba blue w/ chestnut sport interior; Euro delivery 7/2013 (pictured at Ingolstadt); RS5 front brakes
Prior (each modded): 2000 C5 A6 4.2 & '96 C4 A6 2.8Q, both still w/ family; '85 C3 5000S 5 sp FWD; '73 C1 100LS

helpful cross reference to a C6 post with MMI and other TSB's that also cover D3 A8's.


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Old 07-15-2014, 07:56 AM   #15
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4.2+6 - Once again thank you for the useful info. I'm guessing you're an engineer by trade based upon your mechanical knowledge and thoroughness of your posts. You're a true asset to the community. Thanks again for the help and insight.

It looks as though I'm well covered with parts as the attached photo will testify. Getting the big bolt loose shouldn't be too bad as I have a very heavy duty air driver and pressure to drive it. Seriously thpugh... torque + 180 degrees? YOWSER! Even with a jackstand under the breaker bar's head and standing on my puny 2' "cheater bar", I'm not so sure.

-bill
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No sunroof (only 27 made) , no rear airbags, no resonator, no carbon (cleaned 3X!)
12.5 @110mph on the 3rd pass, smog legal on pump gas
Summer: 255-19 Michelin Pilot Sport Plus A/S
Winter: 225-18 Dunlop WinterSport 4D on 7.5" Italias
2010 Q5 Deep Sea Blue Pearl Effect
Cinnamon Brown Leather / Brushed Aluminum Trim
3.2L []S-Line, B&O, & hitch
carbon cleaned twice :-(
Summer: Continental ExtremeContact DWS on 20" OEM peelers
Winter: Blizzak DM-V1 235-19 on Hartmann TTRS reps
2007 A4 Cab Ibis White/Beige Top
Beige Leather / Birch Trim
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:49 AM   #16
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Default Not an engineer, but a 40 year shade tree Audi wrencher in spare time

... back to both C and B 1's. Thanks!

The parts look exactly as I expected. Actually for all the bolts and hub included price not too bad, though in practice the new hub is unneeded normally. Avoids any question of damaging the bearing while pressing it on, which I managed to do once.

Yes, seriously on the torque. See the 2011-2012 quick reference spec book. BTDT. It takes a 4-6 foot lever arm and full body weight standing on it. You need to crack it loose with the car on the ground, parking brake locked, and block behind the wheel in question. As I mentioned, jack handle end is a candidate for the lever arm, though a bit short. I've done it w/ 1"+ galv. pipe too. Also need to tighten securely first w/ no weight yet on bearing--like to the initial torque setting--and then do the -turn lever arm balancing act back on the ground.
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File Type: pdf 2011 - 2012 Q5.pdf (4.15 MB, 17 views)
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Current #1: '06 D3 A8L W12 brilliant black w/ amaretto; 4 seat setup, CPO; modestly lowered, H&R 20mm rear and 12mm front DRs with 275/35 on OEM polished + forged 20's; S8 sway bars (see: rear bar and gen'l D3 bar info and front bar); tweaked 385mm front factory brake mod and matching rear brake mod; matching C6 A6 back headrests (better rear view: headrest tweak); owner installed AMI retrofit with part number details here. [pics now only in picture poster] Upper control arm reference (+ more info in replies) here. Lower cost D3 OES sway bar links here.
Current #2: 2013 Q5 2.0T hybrid; Scuba blue w/ chestnut sport interior; Euro delivery 7/2013 (pictured at Ingolstadt); RS5 front brakes
Prior (each modded): 2000 C5 A6 4.2 & '96 C4 A6 2.8Q, both still w/ family; '85 C3 5000S 5 sp FWD; '73 C1 100LS

helpful cross reference to a C6 post with MMI and other TSB's that also cover D3 A8's.


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Old 07-16-2014, 03:24 PM   #17
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OK so things are back in one piece and it drives quiet as a mouse again. A few notes:

The axle bolt is Allen 19mm. Nobody in town had a socket except Harbor Freight who had a set of ~ 9 impact quality 1/2" drive Allen sockets for $29. I love Harbor Freight!

I had the bearing knocked out of the hub and pressed back in by a machine shop. I could have done it the hard way but opted for professional help with the heavy lifting (or heavy pressing). $40 well spent.

No suspension components needed to be removed or even loosened.

Regarding torque of the axle bolt: I was surprised that the axle bolt would not come loose with the air hammer driven at 150psi. It came loose with a 1/2" breaker bar and a 2-foot cheater handle rather easily though. Torquing the axle bolt to spec was something else. 200 NM + 180 degrees "stretch" isn't going to happen on my car. I've been wrenching (first professionally then as a shade-tree mechanic) now for 43 years. I think I have a VERY good "feel" for torque. I struggled getting 1/4 turn after the 200NM even using a 5' cheater arm (floor jack handle) - then all hell broke loose. The piece of Craftsman 1/2" drive extension (see pic #2) shot down my driveway about 50 feet! I'm not going to attempt to crank another 1/4 turn - it just doesn't seem right and I don't want to bust that bolt. It's staying where it's at and I don't care what the Audi quick reference guide says (BTW, thanks 4.2+6 for the useful link). As you put it, I'll be sheepishly appearing at Sears in the near future for a replacement haha.
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2007 RS4 Daytona Gray Pearl Effect
Silver Nappa Leather / Carbon Fiber Trim
Audi (Euro only) SuperSport Plus Suspension, GIAC software
No sunroof (only 27 made) , no rear airbags, no resonator, no carbon (cleaned 3X!)
12.5 @110mph on the 3rd pass, smog legal on pump gas
Summer: 255-19 Michelin Pilot Sport Plus A/S
Winter: 225-18 Dunlop WinterSport 4D on 7.5" Italias
2010 Q5 Deep Sea Blue Pearl Effect
Cinnamon Brown Leather / Brushed Aluminum Trim
3.2L []S-Line, B&O, & hitch
carbon cleaned twice :-(
Summer: Continental ExtremeContact DWS on 20" OEM peelers
Winter: Blizzak DM-V1 235-19 on Hartmann TTRS reps
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:40 AM   #18
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Your last pic made me cringe!
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:09 AM   #19
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And yep, it went just as I thought on the torque--more than an air drive can handle, and literally a tool buster. I use deep impact sockets for stuff like this to avoid extensions; in my case the wrench broke at the swivel point of a " breaker bar. I guess this is why they have that " drive stuff I think about as like over the road truck category stuff.

But, as w/ me, a chance to gather up those balky ratchets, worn down screwdriver blades and so on and just bring 'em in to Sears in a batch. "I don't know what happened, it just spontaneously flew apart!"...never mind that the handle may be a bit bent to the eye... On my last trip, they no longer gave you the new ones at the counter, but mailed them to me. The tools went into the discard/rework bin without further review, so I think it was probably an internal loss prevention thing about the replacement.

Good call on the machine shop. Having messed one up the DIY way, its $40 well spent to avoid a possible job re do, or the nagging doubts later.
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Old 07-18-2014, 04:38 AM   #20
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Big tools remind me of frequent visits to an abandoned train yard near Marquette, MI. in the mid-70's. Pistons the size of a 5 gal. bucket. Can you imagine wrenching on that scale? And we think we got it bad with a "tiny" 10mm(?) allen bolt!

So did you achieve torque + 1/2 turn? If so, tell the truth... didn't you worry that something other than the tools would break? Even torque + 1/4 turn was waaaay outside my comfort zone
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Old 07-18-2014, 04:38 AM
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