Audi Q5 theft story + questions
05-20-2015, 01:36 PM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
I posted on this sort of electronic breach with Audis some months ago.
Here was a story where it was documented with home video surveillance as happening here in the SF Bay Area. It seems like the approach noted in the attached article was electronic, while yours sounds like it could start with some key duplication off the VIN #: Sausalito car thief ‘hacks’ into Audi, steals expensive bicycle I was not aware the VIN alone told them any more than the key cutting pattern, if they have access to Audi's database that is.
Strikes me it may be time to just let one of those parking related time slips somehow just slip over some of the VIN and not get recovered. They also sell some OBDII lock down covers to prevent unknown scanning. The ads don't say it, but typically that was by insurance types or LEO's--which definitely happens without consent if they can get physical access to the car. But Audi's aren't known to have device recording like the majority of cars now do (what they are probably scanning for), and I also have the P3 electronic gauge plugged in there anyway. Sounds like now it may be to slow crooks down too--if the port isn't needed for an accessory like my P3 set up. The Valentine add on to minimize V1 falses also uses the OBDII port.
Here was a story where it was documented with home video surveillance as happening here in the SF Bay Area. It seems like the approach noted in the attached article was electronic, while yours sounds like it could start with some key duplication off the VIN #: Sausalito car thief ‘hacks’ into Audi, steals expensive bicycle I was not aware the VIN alone told them any more than the key cutting pattern, if they have access to Audi's database that is.
Strikes me it may be time to just let one of those parking related time slips somehow just slip over some of the VIN and not get recovered. They also sell some OBDII lock down covers to prevent unknown scanning. The ads don't say it, but typically that was by insurance types or LEO's--which definitely happens without consent if they can get physical access to the car. But Audi's aren't known to have device recording like the majority of cars now do (what they are probably scanning for), and I also have the P3 electronic gauge plugged in there anyway. Sounds like now it may be to slow crooks down too--if the port isn't needed for an accessory like my P3 set up. The Valentine add on to minimize V1 falses also uses the OBDII port.
That unlocker does not start the car, only unlocks the door, and disables the alarm.
05-20-2015, 03:06 PM
#12
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05-20-2015, 03:47 PM
#13
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No, you need the "chipped" key (including the emergency key which has a chip) that are programmed to the car to start it.
05-21-2015, 08:25 PM
#14
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Does you car have the Advanced Key option?
I have never heard of anyone using a shaved key to start the recent Audi's. Look at your key, shaving it doesn't make sense the way they machine it, but who knows.........
Yes, it's easy to obtain a key that fits your car from the VIN# and plate number. That key will let you enter the car but you can't start it until it is properly programmed at a dealership that is connected to Audi's corporate computer to do so, or you have an underground black box that allows you to program the key to start the car.
I have never heard of anyone using a shaved key to start the recent Audi's. Look at your key, shaving it doesn't make sense the way they machine it, but who knows.........
Yes, it's easy to obtain a key that fits your car from the VIN# and plate number. That key will let you enter the car but you can't start it until it is properly programmed at a dealership that is connected to Audi's corporate computer to do so, or you have an underground black box that allows you to program the key to start the car.
I'm wondering if the shaved key was just a distraction, but it was definitely in the thief's possession.
I don't think I have the Advanced Key option - I'd have a start / stop button if I did, right? I don't have that. I'm wondering about the underground black box, but not sure how to figure that one out.
05-21-2015, 09:05 PM
#15
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On a related note, I *just* read an article yesterday (that I can’t find now) about a new method that thieves are using on cars with “advanced” keys.
It is very simple and requires minimal electronics... they are using a simple signal BOOSTER to increase the transmission distance between your key and your car.
It was explained that the car and key are constantly “pinging” to see if they are in range with each other. When you get close enough, or touch the door handle, then car and key exchange encoded information to allow the door to open and push button start to engage. IMPORTANTLY! They are both low power so that this encrypted exchange can only happen within a few feet.
These crooks have a BOOSTER, or “retransmitter” if you will, that is very powerful and can transmit and receive the key codes from 100’s of feet.
They just walk down the street, see your car, turn on their “booster”, touch the door handle, and the signal is sent (all the way up to your bedroom?) and the key next to your nightstand responds properly, the booster “hears” that signal and retransmits it to the car. No decryption necessary.
Door pops open, and they can steal the contents and/or get it and push the start button. Yes, the car will warn that the key isn’t in the car as soon as you drive away, but it will keep running until they shut it off.
Cops were tipped off to this by a string of thefts of contents from cars without any physical damage. Owner would wake up in the morning to find their car locked and everything missing from inside.
The article recommended keeping your key at night in a “signal proof” metal box. I’ll see if I can find it.
It is very simple and requires minimal electronics... they are using a simple signal BOOSTER to increase the transmission distance between your key and your car.
It was explained that the car and key are constantly “pinging” to see if they are in range with each other. When you get close enough, or touch the door handle, then car and key exchange encoded information to allow the door to open and push button start to engage. IMPORTANTLY! They are both low power so that this encrypted exchange can only happen within a few feet.
These crooks have a BOOSTER, or “retransmitter” if you will, that is very powerful and can transmit and receive the key codes from 100’s of feet.
They just walk down the street, see your car, turn on their “booster”, touch the door handle, and the signal is sent (all the way up to your bedroom?) and the key next to your nightstand responds properly, the booster “hears” that signal and retransmits it to the car. No decryption necessary.
Door pops open, and they can steal the contents and/or get it and push the start button. Yes, the car will warn that the key isn’t in the car as soon as you drive away, but it will keep running until they shut it off.
Cops were tipped off to this by a string of thefts of contents from cars without any physical damage. Owner would wake up in the morning to find their car locked and everything missing from inside.
The article recommended keeping your key at night in a “signal proof” metal box. I’ll see if I can find it.
05-22-2015, 11:54 AM
#16
AudiWorld Super User
Hi Bob - thanks again for your help & assistance!
I'm wondering if the shaved key was just a distraction, but it was definitely in the thief's possession.
I don't think I have the Advanced Key option - I'd have a start / stop button if I did, right? I don't have that. I'm wondering about the underground black box, but not sure how to figure that one out.
I'm wondering if the shaved key was just a distraction, but it was definitely in the thief's possession.
I don't think I have the Advanced Key option - I'd have a start / stop button if I did, right? I don't have that. I'm wondering about the underground black box, but not sure how to figure that one out.
Just search Youtube for How to steal an Audi, or BMW, and you will see security camera footage showing the bad guys carrying the black box with OBDII connector...........
Most German cars are stolen in Europe but that can change. Only a few Q5's have been stolen in the US, a poster here had his stolen about a year ago and posted about it until they found it, but he left his emergency key in the glove box so the Q5 was easy to start and drive away.
The best way to help your Q5 stay in your hands is to make it impossible to insert the OBDII cable to the connector. I just looked at mine and all it takes is matte black plastic frame that sits tightly around the pink connector. It should be just thick enough to prevent electrical contact, but allow the cable connector to slip on. That way it will look ok to the cooks but they won't stay around trying to figure out why the can't make electrical contact. You would only need to remove the frame when you take it to the dealer or need to access the OBDII system with say VCDS. Yes, they sell an OBDII lock but I doubt that will stop the bad guys, of if they see it they will trash the interior of your car, burn the car, etc! Also add a 3rd party alarm system that is independent of the factory one, and it needs an interior motion detector to do a good job. Or a pet rattlesnake that lives on the front floor................
05-22-2015, 05:15 PM
#17
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These crooks have a BOOSTER, or “retransmitter” if you will, that is very powerful and can transmit and receive the key codes from 100’s of feet.
They just walk down the street, see your car, turn on their “booster”, touch the door handle, and the signal is sent (all the way up to your bedroom?) and the key next to your nightstand responds properly, the booster “hears” that signal and retransmits it to the car. No decryption necessary.
Door pops open, and they can steal the contents and/or get it and push the start button. Yes, the car will warn that the key isn’t in the car as soon as you drive away, but it will keep running until they shut it off.
Cops were tipped off to this by a string of thefts of contents from cars without any physical damage. Owner would wake up in the morning to find their car locked and everything missing from inside.
The article recommended keeping your key at night in a “signal proof” metal box. I’ll see if I can find it.
05-23-2015, 09:05 AM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
05-23-2015, 08:54 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
jeff-
No ODB device needed, no funny key needed. Was your car parked within a hundred yards of where your keys were? (i.e. in front of your house or workplace?) when stolen?
I also posted a thread on the "new" booster boxes after seeing a TV report on it. Basically, the box "pings" to see if there is a keyless entry device anywhere in the area, and then it repeats the device coding to the car. If there's only one Audi key fob and one Audi around...they're a match and away it goes.
The only protection against this is to keep your fobs in a faraday cage. An Altoids tin or metal bandaid tin is the simplest way to do that. One of the silvery mylar protection bags for a highway toll pass or other electronics "should" also be strong enough, if folded closed.
This only applies to the keyless entry models, but apparently has been quietly used for some time now on ALL makes with keyless entry. Whatever the guys say about how they did it? Isn't worth the time of day, they're not going to give away their secrets so quickly.
There have been security bypass secrets disclosed in the past, for some other makes. Supposedly dealer-confidential, but odd things like "pump the brake twice, drop the power window, operate the wiper, pump the brake twice again" and bingo, the security system is disengaged. Not, AFAIK, for Audi though. Supposedly Audi keeps their security and key code programming in Germany, and if any dealer needs to access it, they need to connect the car via the internet, presumably from the ODB. If that had been hacked...then anything goes.
No ODB device needed, no funny key needed. Was your car parked within a hundred yards of where your keys were? (i.e. in front of your house or workplace?) when stolen?
I also posted a thread on the "new" booster boxes after seeing a TV report on it. Basically, the box "pings" to see if there is a keyless entry device anywhere in the area, and then it repeats the device coding to the car. If there's only one Audi key fob and one Audi around...they're a match and away it goes.
The only protection against this is to keep your fobs in a faraday cage. An Altoids tin or metal bandaid tin is the simplest way to do that. One of the silvery mylar protection bags for a highway toll pass or other electronics "should" also be strong enough, if folded closed.
This only applies to the keyless entry models, but apparently has been quietly used for some time now on ALL makes with keyless entry. Whatever the guys say about how they did it? Isn't worth the time of day, they're not going to give away their secrets so quickly.
There have been security bypass secrets disclosed in the past, for some other makes. Supposedly dealer-confidential, but odd things like "pump the brake twice, drop the power window, operate the wiper, pump the brake twice again" and bingo, the security system is disengaged. Not, AFAIK, for Audi though. Supposedly Audi keeps their security and key code programming in Germany, and if any dealer needs to access it, they need to connect the car via the internet, presumably from the ODB. If that had been hacked...then anything goes.
05-24-2015, 12:28 PM
#20
AudiWorld Super User
jeff-
No ODB device needed, no funny key needed. Was your car parked within a hundred yards of where your keys were? (i.e. in front of your house or workplace?) when stolen?
I also posted a thread on the "new" booster boxes after seeing a TV report on it. Basically, the box "pings" to see if there is a keyless entry device anywhere in the area, and then it repeats the device coding to the car. If there's only one Audi key fob and one Audi around...they're a match and away it goes.
The only protection against this is to keep your fobs in a faraday cage. An Altoids tin or metal bandaid tin is the simplest way to do that. One of the silvery mylar protection bags for a highway toll pass or other electronics "should" also be strong enough, if folded closed.
This only applies to the keyless entry models, but apparently has been quietly used for some time now on ALL makes with keyless entry. Whatever the guys say about how they did it? Isn't worth the time of day, they're not going to give away their secrets so quickly.
There have been security bypass secrets disclosed in the past, for some other makes. Supposedly dealer-confidential, but odd things like "pump the brake twice, drop the power window, operate the wiper, pump the brake twice again" and bingo, the security system is disengaged. Not, AFAIK, for Audi though. Supposedly Audi keeps their security and key code programming in Germany, and if any dealer needs to access it, they need to connect the car via the internet, presumably from the ODB. If that had been hacked...then anything goes.
No ODB device needed, no funny key needed. Was your car parked within a hundred yards of where your keys were? (i.e. in front of your house or workplace?) when stolen?
I also posted a thread on the "new" booster boxes after seeing a TV report on it. Basically, the box "pings" to see if there is a keyless entry device anywhere in the area, and then it repeats the device coding to the car. If there's only one Audi key fob and one Audi around...they're a match and away it goes.
The only protection against this is to keep your fobs in a faraday cage. An Altoids tin or metal bandaid tin is the simplest way to do that. One of the silvery mylar protection bags for a highway toll pass or other electronics "should" also be strong enough, if folded closed.
This only applies to the keyless entry models, but apparently has been quietly used for some time now on ALL makes with keyless entry. Whatever the guys say about how they did it? Isn't worth the time of day, they're not going to give away their secrets so quickly.
There have been security bypass secrets disclosed in the past, for some other makes. Supposedly dealer-confidential, but odd things like "pump the brake twice, drop the power window, operate the wiper, pump the brake twice again" and bingo, the security system is disengaged. Not, AFAIK, for Audi though. Supposedly Audi keeps their security and key code programming in Germany, and if any dealer needs to access it, they need to connect the car via the internet, presumably from the ODB. If that had been hacked...then anything goes.