Audi Reveals Software Fix for 3.0-liter TDIs
11-24-2015, 12:22 PM
#11
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The cheat was to raise the temperature of the exhaust gas system so the urea can do its job better, but only under test conditions. Once the "fix" is made sadly the engine will run hotter and less efficient. That means a loss of power and mpg, but to what extent who knows.
11-25-2015, 09:55 AM
#12
AudiWorld Super User
Even if VW did something radically convenient, like sending around RedCap drivers to fill up blue tanks every month(?) wherever the owners were located (and that type of concierge service IS being done and growing in the luxury car market) there's still the other side of the system: The catalyst and hardware. If you use 10x as much blue, will the catalyst burn out 10x faster? And then, what will it cost to have that replaced 10x as often?
VW forces the world to speculate, as they don't or won't comment on these issues.
I'd guess that some organization will be pulling those numbers out and publicizing them within the next few weeks (months?) anyhow, and VW can only lose more faith and trust form the owners by not stating everything up front.
VW forces the world to speculate, as they don't or won't comment on these issues.
I'd guess that some organization will be pulling those numbers out and publicizing them within the next few weeks (months?) anyhow, and VW can only lose more faith and trust form the owners by not stating everything up front.
11-25-2015, 10:00 AM
#13
Club AutoUnion
Even if VW did something radically convenient, like sending around RedCap drivers to fill up blue tanks every month(?) wherever the owners were located (and that type of concierge service IS being done and growing in the luxury car market) there's still the other side of the system: The catalyst and hardware. If you use 10x as much blue, will the catalyst burn out 10x faster? And then, what will it cost to have that replaced 10x as often?
VW forces the world to speculate, as they don't or won't comment on these issues.
I'd guess that some organization will be pulling those numbers out and publicizing them within the next few weeks (months?) anyhow, and VW can only lose more faith and trust form the owners by not stating everything up front.
VW forces the world to speculate, as they don't or won't comment on these issues.
I'd guess that some organization will be pulling those numbers out and publicizing them within the next few weeks (months?) anyhow, and VW can only lose more faith and trust form the owners by not stating everything up front.
Last edited by Mrclopec; 11-25-2015 at 10:03 AM.
11-30-2015, 03:40 PM
#14
I have an original 335d that has an engine that is rated to 265 horsepower and 435 ft/lbs of torque. In actuality, the horsepower is closer to 280. Are you really going to complain about 5 ft/lbs of torque?
For what it's worth though, my 2010 335d has not been anywhere near reliable in terms of emissions. The majority of my downtime events are due to emissions. The urea tank is being replaced right now, under warranty of course. (car has 72k miles). I've had multiple urea pump failures and the EGR causes carbon build up in my intake tract so the car needed a walnut blasting a few months ago.
The engine though is so amazing. the sequential turbos pull very hard in every RPM. It's very tough to compare the two engines of the audi and BMW. The biggest difference is the transmission. Both ZF units but the 335d has a 6 speed instead of 8 speed.
Now of course, you compare it to BMW's newer variable vane single turbo mill, I haven't driven that motor yet but I could imagine it's decent and more refined. It seems as if BMW has figured out the emissions problems. Keep in mind my 335 was a halo car for BMW as it was the first to have all of the emissions equipment.
For what it's worth though, my 2010 335d has not been anywhere near reliable in terms of emissions. The majority of my downtime events are due to emissions. The urea tank is being replaced right now, under warranty of course. (car has 72k miles). I've had multiple urea pump failures and the EGR causes carbon build up in my intake tract so the car needed a walnut blasting a few months ago.
The engine though is so amazing. the sequential turbos pull very hard in every RPM. It's very tough to compare the two engines of the audi and BMW. The biggest difference is the transmission. Both ZF units but the 335d has a 6 speed instead of 8 speed.
Now of course, you compare it to BMW's newer variable vane single turbo mill, I haven't driven that motor yet but I could imagine it's decent and more refined. It seems as if BMW has figured out the emissions problems. Keep in mind my 335 was a halo car for BMW as it was the first to have all of the emissions equipment.
Can you Pls share lessons learned that can help us avoid carbon build up, etc?
Thx
11-30-2015, 06:02 PM
#15
AudiWorld Senior Member
Carbon build up on the intake valves is due to the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR). The 335d has a single EGR where as the x5 35d (older body style) has two. The EGR recirculates exhaust gases and the carbon builds up on the intake tracts in the intake onto the intake valves. Over time this reduces performance and efficiency and requires a cleaning. Higher engine rpm and WOT reduce the amount the EGRis used but at low speeds and idle, the EGR is used quite a bit.
The solution is walnut blasting. On the 335d the common mileage is 60-70k which is where mine happened, it finally threw an SES code and I noticed decreased mileage and performance. Some have had it happen even sooner closer to 30k...especially those who tuned. Some say this could be due our crappy diesel fuel we get in the USA. BMW recommended a cetane of over 50. Over here we barely see over 40- 45.
A fix to the problem, some have installed EGR blockoff plates. While these plates don't cause an SES code, they do notify the computer that something is up. Others have deleted the EGR and coded it for removal. I have not done either. If I keep the car past warranty (07/2017 or 100k miles (I'm at 73k now)) I will think about doing a full system delete. EGR, SCR & DPF (we call this the alphabet delete) which would mean straight pipes and smoke out the tail but no more headaches of carbon build up and failed emissions components. If the car passes state emissions tests because when plugged in, no faults are found then I'm good. I'll have more power, 100lbs weight reduction and more efficiency. Not to mention more reliability as well.
I love my 335d. When it was new in 2010, you couldn't find another car that could 0-60 i under 6 seconds, 1/4 mile in under 14 and still return 27-29mpg combined. While on the highway getting 32-34 mpg with ease. Today, not many cars can do that. Imagine if it had an 8 speed transmission?
Honestly, I want an F30 M3 so bad. Problem is my 335 is paid for and under warranty. An M3 would be almost $900 a month financed trading in the 335d.....yet the 335d will still be a rarer car than any modern M car....
11-30-2015, 06:23 PM
#16
For what it's worth, everyone else is like oh that sucks about your car but for me, I don't mind. It's been 0 out of pocket, maybe a $50 deductible here or there but I get a loaner car and right now, the loaners are newer than mine and don't drive as nice. I put lots of miles on them and then I get my car back and it feels great. The car drives great.
Carbon build up on the intake valves is due to the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR). The 335d has a single EGR where as the x5 35d (older body style) has two. The EGR recirculates exhaust gases and the carbon builds up on the intake tracts in the intake onto the intake valves. Over time this reduces performance and efficiency and requires a cleaning. Higher engine rpm and WOT reduce the amount the EGRis used but at low speeds and idle, the EGR is used quite a bit.
The solution is walnut blasting. On the 335d the common mileage is 60-70k which is where mine happened, it finally threw an SES code and I noticed decreased mileage and performance. Some have had it happen even sooner closer to 30k...especially those who tuned. Some say this could be due our crappy diesel fuel we get in the USA. BMW recommended a cetane of over 50. Over here we barely see over 40- 45.
A fix to the problem, some have installed EGR blockoff plates. While these plates don't cause an SES code, they do notify the computer that something is up. Others have deleted the EGR and coded it for removal. I have not done either. If I keep the car past warranty (07/2017 or 100k miles (I'm at 73k now)) I will think about doing a full system delete. EGR, SCR & DPF (we call this the alphabet delete) which would mean straight pipes and smoke out the tail but no more headaches of carbon build up and failed emissions components. If the car passes state emissions tests because when plugged in, no faults are found then I'm good. I'll have more power, 100lbs weight reduction and more efficiency. Not to mention more reliability as well.
I love my 335d. When it was new in 2010, you couldn't find another car that could 0-60 i under 6 seconds, 1/4 mile in under 14 and still return 27-29mpg combined. While on the highway getting 32-34 mpg with ease. Today, not many cars can do that. Imagine if it had an 8 speed transmission?
Honestly, I want an F30 M3 so bad. Problem is my 335 is paid for and under warranty. An M3 would be almost $900 a month financed trading in the 335d.....yet the 335d will still be a rarer car than any modern M car....
Carbon build up on the intake valves is due to the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR). The 335d has a single EGR where as the x5 35d (older body style) has two. The EGR recirculates exhaust gases and the carbon builds up on the intake tracts in the intake onto the intake valves. Over time this reduces performance and efficiency and requires a cleaning. Higher engine rpm and WOT reduce the amount the EGRis used but at low speeds and idle, the EGR is used quite a bit.
The solution is walnut blasting. On the 335d the common mileage is 60-70k which is where mine happened, it finally threw an SES code and I noticed decreased mileage and performance. Some have had it happen even sooner closer to 30k...especially those who tuned. Some say this could be due our crappy diesel fuel we get in the USA. BMW recommended a cetane of over 50. Over here we barely see over 40- 45.
A fix to the problem, some have installed EGR blockoff plates. While these plates don't cause an SES code, they do notify the computer that something is up. Others have deleted the EGR and coded it for removal. I have not done either. If I keep the car past warranty (07/2017 or 100k miles (I'm at 73k now)) I will think about doing a full system delete. EGR, SCR & DPF (we call this the alphabet delete) which would mean straight pipes and smoke out the tail but no more headaches of carbon build up and failed emissions components. If the car passes state emissions tests because when plugged in, no faults are found then I'm good. I'll have more power, 100lbs weight reduction and more efficiency. Not to mention more reliability as well.
I love my 335d. When it was new in 2010, you couldn't find another car that could 0-60 i under 6 seconds, 1/4 mile in under 14 and still return 27-29mpg combined. While on the highway getting 32-34 mpg with ease. Today, not many cars can do that. Imagine if it had an 8 speed transmission?
Honestly, I want an F30 M3 so bad. Problem is my 335 is paid for and under warranty. An M3 would be almost $900 a month financed trading in the 335d.....yet the 335d will still be a rarer car than any modern M car....
We do not have money to burn either and want to avoid more issues with our Q5 TDI. We hope that Audi will resolve the emissions issues in favorable manner.
Pls advise if you considered options to reduce impact to CB from EGR. It would seem that a a device that traps oil and goo before they reach the engine might mitigate CB
11-30-2015, 06:25 PM
#17
Thx for your prompt reply and sharing of plans.
We do not have money to burn either and want to avoid more issues with our Q5 TDI. We hope that Audi will resolve the emissions issues in favorable manner.
Pls advise if you considered options to reduce impact to CB from EGR. It would seem that a a device that traps oil and goo before they reach the engine might mitigate CB
We do not have money to burn either and want to avoid more issues with our Q5 TDI. We hope that Audi will resolve the emissions issues in favorable manner.
Pls advise if you considered options to reduce impact to CB from EGR. It would seem that a a device that traps oil and goo before they reach the engine might mitigate CB
12-01-2015, 04:36 AM
#18
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thx for your prompt reply and sharing of plans.
We do not have money to burn either and want to avoid more issues with our Q5 TDI. We hope that Audi will resolve the emissions issues in favorable manner.
Pls advise if you considered options to reduce impact to CB from EGR. It would seem that a a device that traps oil and goo before they reach the engine might mitigate CB
We do not have money to burn either and want to avoid more issues with our Q5 TDI. We hope that Audi will resolve the emissions issues in favorable manner.
Pls advise if you considered options to reduce impact to CB from EGR. It would seem that a a device that traps oil and goo before they reach the engine might mitigate CB
For what it's worth, I did pay for the extended warranty on my 3 series, it has paid for itself since. Extended warranty is cheaper than a new car.
12-01-2015, 07:01 AM
#19
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I gave up my 335d and got an X5d and happy with it.
Just waiting for the Q5 TDI to be released so that I can jump on it as my X5d lease is ending....
Just waiting for the Q5 TDI to be released so that I can jump on it as my X5d lease is ending....
12-02-2015, 11:14 AM
#20
AudiWorld Member
"The software recognizes when vehicles are undergoing a U.S. emissions test and in turn activate a “temperature conditioning” mode that turns on pollution-control equipment, limiting nitrogen oxide emissions to permissible levels, according to the EPA.
In real-world driving, the controls are inactive, making the vehicles pollute far more than they were certified to be, according to the EPA."
I am concerned that the quickest, simplest software fix might be to keep our cars running in the "temperature conditioning" mode much more often or even all of the time. If that mode had little negative impact on power, engine durability or fuel economy, I doubt VW would have taken the enormous risk to turn the temperature conditioning mode off during normal driving. I only have 2000 miles on my Q5 TDI, I really like it, and would like to save my current ECU settings in the event that my worst fears are realized.
In real-world driving, the controls are inactive, making the vehicles pollute far more than they were certified to be, according to the EPA."
I am concerned that the quickest, simplest software fix might be to keep our cars running in the "temperature conditioning" mode much more often or even all of the time. If that mode had little negative impact on power, engine durability or fuel economy, I doubt VW would have taken the enormous risk to turn the temperature conditioning mode off during normal driving. I only have 2000 miles on my Q5 TDI, I really like it, and would like to save my current ECU settings in the event that my worst fears are realized.