Hypothetical for petrol 5 owners....road trip with no premium gas
07-18-2016, 04:43 PM
#11
I would only use it in a pinch, and don't be super aggressive while doing it.
This is a pretty good read. The Audis are all considered premium required.
Save Money and Stop Buying Premium Gas
A while back, I read a story of a auto reviewer that drove around in the mountains, and blew the engine of the car they were reviewing because they didn't put premium in. Can't find it... but was pretty interesting.
Also if you happen to blow the engine while running regular, when it's required, you won't be covered under warranty.
This is a pretty good read. The Audis are all considered premium required.
Save Money and Stop Buying Premium Gas
A while back, I read a story of a auto reviewer that drove around in the mountains, and blew the engine of the car they were reviewing because they didn't put premium in. Can't find it... but was pretty interesting.
Also if you happen to blow the engine while running regular, when it's required, you won't be covered under warranty.
07-18-2016, 06:52 PM
#12
That's nonsense. I've pull plugs out after 50k of 2-cycle in the gas and they were as clean as any.
I don't see the connection between an old outboard engine that could suffer a myriad of ills, how it can be judged against a new auto engine. I guess you can do it if you make a bunch of non-specific huckster-style claims, like your "synthetic oil business". Tell us, it is Lucas or AMSoil....is this just a standard pitch for AMSoil "DOMINATOR" 2-stroke oil? Is it that Pennzoil cannot make a good product? Maybe not enough profit margin or the AMSoil is too expensive, so you disregard it as "dirty", umm, yeah.
The fact is that until the moment of your post, you never even conceived of using 2-cycle oil in a 4-stroke engine. Still, you present nothing of substance, just bramble about marine engines. YAWN. Do you realize that TCW-3 spec guarantees everything you said is bunk? One of the most common failures of 2-cycle engines is from using higher octane fuel? That's what leaves deposits, from burning too slowly, I guess you knew that when you talked about tearing down "racing" 2-cycle engines....wow. Talk about a generalization. How was the air filtration, fuel quality, water infiltration....nope, it was DIRTY PENNZOIL, lol.
Let's look at what PZ says....
Developed for marine engines that are “seasoned” or have been in service for a few years, the robust formulation makes Pennzoil Marine® XLF Extended Life Formula TC-W3® Outboard 2-Cycle Synthetic Blend Oil very suitable for new high-displacement/horsepower carbureted or direct injection outboard motors.
What Pennzoil Marine® XLF's uniquely formulated ashless dispersants do:
Keep your engine running clean
Guard against harmful engine deposits
Protect against piston-scuffing
Keep performance-robbing carbon deposits from forming in the combustion chamber, piston tops, and under crowns and piston-combustion rings
Keep exhaust ports clean
Pennzoil Marine® XLF Extended Life Formula TC-W3® Outboard 2-Cycle Synthetic Blend Oil is formulated to provide excellent protection against piston-scuffing and reduced wear. Whether fishing or leisure boating, commercial or recreational, Pennzoil Marine® XLF will help keep your investment running smooth and strong for years.
That makes more sense than "judging" the unseen history of a "racing" outboard immersed in water. lol, do you suggest they NOT use a 2-cycle oil in the fuel...hmm.
Like I said, it's a veiled pitch for AMSoil. Saying that $12 is a big waste of money tells me there is another motive involved. That gallon will treat 436 gallons of fuel taking your car almost 10,000 miles....oh, yeah...HUGE waste of money. What say you to people with engines burning oil, that TCW-3 oil is "dirty"? Don't use it to help oil burning? That's pretty stupid, imo.
I don't see the connection between an old outboard engine that could suffer a myriad of ills, how it can be judged against a new auto engine. I guess you can do it if you make a bunch of non-specific huckster-style claims, like your "synthetic oil business". Tell us, it is Lucas or AMSoil....is this just a standard pitch for AMSoil "DOMINATOR" 2-stroke oil? Is it that Pennzoil cannot make a good product? Maybe not enough profit margin or the AMSoil is too expensive, so you disregard it as "dirty", umm, yeah.
The fact is that until the moment of your post, you never even conceived of using 2-cycle oil in a 4-stroke engine. Still, you present nothing of substance, just bramble about marine engines. YAWN. Do you realize that TCW-3 spec guarantees everything you said is bunk? One of the most common failures of 2-cycle engines is from using higher octane fuel? That's what leaves deposits, from burning too slowly, I guess you knew that when you talked about tearing down "racing" 2-cycle engines....wow. Talk about a generalization. How was the air filtration, fuel quality, water infiltration....nope, it was DIRTY PENNZOIL, lol.
Let's look at what PZ says....
Developed for marine engines that are “seasoned” or have been in service for a few years, the robust formulation makes Pennzoil Marine® XLF Extended Life Formula TC-W3® Outboard 2-Cycle Synthetic Blend Oil very suitable for new high-displacement/horsepower carbureted or direct injection outboard motors.
What Pennzoil Marine® XLF's uniquely formulated ashless dispersants do:
Keep your engine running clean
Guard against harmful engine deposits
Protect against piston-scuffing
Keep performance-robbing carbon deposits from forming in the combustion chamber, piston tops, and under crowns and piston-combustion rings
Keep exhaust ports clean
Pennzoil Marine® XLF Extended Life Formula TC-W3® Outboard 2-Cycle Synthetic Blend Oil is formulated to provide excellent protection against piston-scuffing and reduced wear. Whether fishing or leisure boating, commercial or recreational, Pennzoil Marine® XLF will help keep your investment running smooth and strong for years.
That makes more sense than "judging" the unseen history of a "racing" outboard immersed in water. lol, do you suggest they NOT use a 2-cycle oil in the fuel...hmm.
Like I said, it's a veiled pitch for AMSoil. Saying that $12 is a big waste of money tells me there is another motive involved. That gallon will treat 436 gallons of fuel taking your car almost 10,000 miles....oh, yeah...HUGE waste of money. What say you to people with engines burning oil, that TCW-3 oil is "dirty"? Don't use it to help oil burning? That's pretty stupid, imo.
07-18-2016, 06:56 PM
#13
I would only use it in a pinch, and don't be super aggressive while doing it.
This is a pretty good read. The Audis are all considered premium required.
Save Money and Stop Buying Premium Gas
A while back, I read a story of a auto reviewer that drove around in the mountains, and blew the engine of the car they were reviewing because they didn't put premium in. Can't find it... but was pretty interesting.
Also if you happen to blow the engine while running regular, when it's required, you won't be covered under warranty.
This is a pretty good read. The Audis are all considered premium required.
Save Money and Stop Buying Premium Gas
A while back, I read a story of a auto reviewer that drove around in the mountains, and blew the engine of the car they were reviewing because they didn't put premium in. Can't find it... but was pretty interesting.
Also if you happen to blow the engine while running regular, when it's required, you won't be covered under warranty.
But yeah, be wary of "advice" coming from left field.
It's poor policy to tell people not to buy super gas. If they already doing it, they likely have a reason. Many 87 engines produce more power on high octane, Honda V6 comes to mind. 89 is always good, it will keep timing from being retarded on 87 engines. Slower burn drives the piston more smoothly too.
I'm done on this topic.
07-19-2016, 08:41 AM
#14
AudiWorld Super User
"Petrol companies simply keep track of who puts how much into the pipeline, then they pull the same amount out the other end, raw gas....is raw gas."
Things may have changed, but I know that was not the way gas was piped in the 70's. The gas companies added a radioactive taggant to the gasoline at the start and end of each batch. So, Shell might use the pipe, and the "ding!" the detector goes off and says Shell's gas is all done now. The 'tagged" fuel, which is commingled from two batches, goes off to a no-name company. The next slug of fuel in the pipeline might belong to Mobil or Chevron, and the "ding!" the detector goes off again.
It isn't simply counted, it is actually tagged and identified as it hits the transfer station or the terminal. Perhaps they've gone to a non-radioactive taggant over the years, perhaps the 1996 EPA regulations have improved it all. But no, the difference isn't just in the terminal additives.
The advice to burn low-octane, based on your actual engine response? Was given to me ages ago by a gentlemen who made his income largely from his combustion engineering patents. Two PhD's in the subject from the Swiss Federal Institute, and patents licensed globally on a wide variety of engines.
Today, with computer spark and boost controls? If you are not demanding high performance, beyond what low-test will give you? Lower octane still is more effective, without any compromise. IF your engine controls and driving habits can make better use of high test, that's something else again.
I wouldn't call a Q5 "unstable" simply because I could easily flip one if driving it like a TSD rally car. And yet, it is unstable from that perspective. Same thing for octane. If you don't want to do the math...feel free to throw money at the problem.
Of course, if you really care about performance, you won't be buying the usual "pump" ethanol blends, you'll be patronizing Pure Gas stations, selling 100% gasoline. Ethanol, of any octane, is simply inferior fuel. Even if your Q has a Flex Fuel engine designed to burn it.
Things may have changed, but I know that was not the way gas was piped in the 70's. The gas companies added a radioactive taggant to the gasoline at the start and end of each batch. So, Shell might use the pipe, and the "ding!" the detector goes off and says Shell's gas is all done now. The 'tagged" fuel, which is commingled from two batches, goes off to a no-name company. The next slug of fuel in the pipeline might belong to Mobil or Chevron, and the "ding!" the detector goes off again.
It isn't simply counted, it is actually tagged and identified as it hits the transfer station or the terminal. Perhaps they've gone to a non-radioactive taggant over the years, perhaps the 1996 EPA regulations have improved it all. But no, the difference isn't just in the terminal additives.
The advice to burn low-octane, based on your actual engine response? Was given to me ages ago by a gentlemen who made his income largely from his combustion engineering patents. Two PhD's in the subject from the Swiss Federal Institute, and patents licensed globally on a wide variety of engines.
Today, with computer spark and boost controls? If you are not demanding high performance, beyond what low-test will give you? Lower octane still is more effective, without any compromise. IF your engine controls and driving habits can make better use of high test, that's something else again.
I wouldn't call a Q5 "unstable" simply because I could easily flip one if driving it like a TSD rally car. And yet, it is unstable from that perspective. Same thing for octane. If you don't want to do the math...feel free to throw money at the problem.
Of course, if you really care about performance, you won't be buying the usual "pump" ethanol blends, you'll be patronizing Pure Gas stations, selling 100% gasoline. Ethanol, of any octane, is simply inferior fuel. Even if your Q has a Flex Fuel engine designed to burn it.
Last edited by Redd; 07-19-2016 at 08:43 AM.
07-19-2016, 10:10 AM
#15
That's nonsense. I've pull plugs out after 50k of 2-cycle in the gas and they were as clean as any.
I don't see the connection between an old outboard engine that could suffer a myriad of ills, how it can be judged against a new auto engine. I guess you can do it if you make a bunch of non-specific huckster-style claims, like your "synthetic oil business". Tell us, it is Lucas or AMSoil....is this just a standard pitch for AMSoil "DOMINATOR" 2-stroke oil? Is it that Pennzoil cannot make a good product? Maybe not enough profit margin or the AMSoil is too expensive, so you disregard it as "dirty", umm, yeah.
The fact is that until the moment of your post, you never even conceived of using 2-cycle oil in a 4-stroke engine. Still, you present nothing of substance, just bramble about marine engines. YAWN. Do you realize that TCW-3 spec guarantees everything you said is bunk? One of the most common failures of 2-cycle engines is from using higher octane fuel? That's what leaves deposits, from burning too slowly, I guess you knew that when you talked about tearing down "racing" 2-cycle engines....wow. Talk about a generalization. How was the air filtration, fuel quality, water infiltration....nope, it was DIRTY PENNZOIL, lol.
Let's look at what PZ says....
Developed for marine engines that are “seasoned” or have been in service for a few years, the robust formulation makes Pennzoil Marine® XLF Extended Life Formula TC-W3® Outboard 2-Cycle Synthetic Blend Oil very suitable for new high-displacement/horsepower carbureted or direct injection outboard motors.
What Pennzoil Marine® XLF's uniquely formulated ashless dispersants do:
Keep your engine running clean
Guard against harmful engine deposits
Protect against piston-scuffing
Keep performance-robbing carbon deposits from forming in the combustion chamber, piston tops, and under crowns and piston-combustion rings
Keep exhaust ports clean
Pennzoil Marine® XLF Extended Life Formula TC-W3® Outboard 2-Cycle Synthetic Blend Oil is formulated to provide excellent protection against piston-scuffing and reduced wear. Whether fishing or leisure boating, commercial or recreational, Pennzoil Marine® XLF will help keep your investment running smooth and strong for years.
That makes more sense than "judging" the unseen history of a "racing" outboard immersed in water. lol, do you suggest they NOT use a 2-cycle oil in the fuel...hmm.
Like I said, it's a veiled pitch for AMSoil. Saying that $12 is a big waste of money tells me there is another motive involved. That gallon will treat 436 gallons of fuel taking your car almost 10,000 miles....oh, yeah...HUGE waste of money. What say you to people with engines burning oil, that TCW-3 oil is "dirty"? Don't use it to help oil burning? That's pretty stupid, imo.
I don't see the connection between an old outboard engine that could suffer a myriad of ills, how it can be judged against a new auto engine. I guess you can do it if you make a bunch of non-specific huckster-style claims, like your "synthetic oil business". Tell us, it is Lucas or AMSoil....is this just a standard pitch for AMSoil "DOMINATOR" 2-stroke oil? Is it that Pennzoil cannot make a good product? Maybe not enough profit margin or the AMSoil is too expensive, so you disregard it as "dirty", umm, yeah.
The fact is that until the moment of your post, you never even conceived of using 2-cycle oil in a 4-stroke engine. Still, you present nothing of substance, just bramble about marine engines. YAWN. Do you realize that TCW-3 spec guarantees everything you said is bunk? One of the most common failures of 2-cycle engines is from using higher octane fuel? That's what leaves deposits, from burning too slowly, I guess you knew that when you talked about tearing down "racing" 2-cycle engines....wow. Talk about a generalization. How was the air filtration, fuel quality, water infiltration....nope, it was DIRTY PENNZOIL, lol.
Let's look at what PZ says....
Developed for marine engines that are “seasoned” or have been in service for a few years, the robust formulation makes Pennzoil Marine® XLF Extended Life Formula TC-W3® Outboard 2-Cycle Synthetic Blend Oil very suitable for new high-displacement/horsepower carbureted or direct injection outboard motors.
What Pennzoil Marine® XLF's uniquely formulated ashless dispersants do:
Keep your engine running clean
Guard against harmful engine deposits
Protect against piston-scuffing
Keep performance-robbing carbon deposits from forming in the combustion chamber, piston tops, and under crowns and piston-combustion rings
Keep exhaust ports clean
Pennzoil Marine® XLF Extended Life Formula TC-W3® Outboard 2-Cycle Synthetic Blend Oil is formulated to provide excellent protection against piston-scuffing and reduced wear. Whether fishing or leisure boating, commercial or recreational, Pennzoil Marine® XLF will help keep your investment running smooth and strong for years.
That makes more sense than "judging" the unseen history of a "racing" outboard immersed in water. lol, do you suggest they NOT use a 2-cycle oil in the fuel...hmm.
Like I said, it's a veiled pitch for AMSoil. Saying that $12 is a big waste of money tells me there is another motive involved. That gallon will treat 436 gallons of fuel taking your car almost 10,000 miles....oh, yeah...HUGE waste of money. What say you to people with engines burning oil, that TCW-3 oil is "dirty"? Don't use it to help oil burning? That's pretty stupid, imo.
07-19-2016, 03:21 PM
#16
AudiWorld Super User
I would remind everyone to keep the thread civil. It's ok to disagree but it's unacceptable to use personal attacks or perpetuate an argument.
10-04-2021, 12:30 PM
#17
AudiWorld Newcomer
Although I don't object to say...89 octane in a pinch, most "super" vehicles are calibrated for 91, but on the highway, you can load the engine pretty heavily.
My informed opinion is that octane needs depend on driving style. Take a monster ride like a old stock Passat 1.8t, my mom could drive around on it fine with mid grade gas, if I were driving it, super would be a necessary evil.
A open throttle plate (if you have one), means more charge which means when it gets compressed, there is more total pressure, thus the need for octane, which is simply a measurement of *resistance to detonation* (from compression).
There is no difference in "quality" between grades, despite the moniker "premium" or whatever. Higher octane mixes have more cleaners because they NEED them, it burns more slowly and leaves more deposits!
Also, most ALL gas comes from a pipeline, the same feedstock. Petrol companies simply keep track of who puts how much into the pipeline, then they pull the same amount out the other end, raw gas....is raw gas.
The final product is blended or "treated" at the distribution terminal, right in the trucks. The driver has a key which corresponds to each brand's additive and octane pack. He or she simply inserts the key and the additive is dispensed right into the rig.
Different brands may have a proprietary additive package or just the generic "EPA" minimum additives. Of course it's extra complicated in the 21st century by local and state regs, requiring localized blends and raising the cost for the consumer. Keep in mind the "Top Tier" fuel that's recommended by most mfgs. TT isn't necessarily the best gas available. Some excellent formulations come from Shell and BP (Amoco chemists). TT has been flopping around like a fish out of water, different brands come and go. Ideally, it's an economical way for a few local brands to share a add pack that is better than EPA min.
What else is out there? Well, a very simple and cheap fuel additive is 2-Cycle oil w/TCW-3 spec. Use it like any "top oil" in the gas at 500:1 (double the first time to coat the fuel system) that's 3oz/10G. TCW-3 spec is "ashless", which is awesome, and it has more and better of the same additives in gasoline, inc stabilizers and surfactants that improve burn. Protects against corrosion from alcohol by physical barrier and....anti-corrosives. It's a big deal if you're using corn gas. If you want to go mental, get the PZ Marine grade of 2C with organic biolube base oil and no organo-metallic additives.
I buy mine cheap at W*M by the gallon, oh $12...it comes out to $.25c to treat 10G or +$02.5c a gallon of gas. If you burn oil, I highly recommend it at whatever treat rate is needed. I use it and burn zero oil in any of my cars.
My informed opinion is that octane needs depend on driving style. Take a monster ride like a old stock Passat 1.8t, my mom could drive around on it fine with mid grade gas, if I were driving it, super would be a necessary evil.
A open throttle plate (if you have one), means more charge which means when it gets compressed, there is more total pressure, thus the need for octane, which is simply a measurement of *resistance to detonation* (from compression).
There is no difference in "quality" between grades, despite the moniker "premium" or whatever. Higher octane mixes have more cleaners because they NEED them, it burns more slowly and leaves more deposits!
Also, most ALL gas comes from a pipeline, the same feedstock. Petrol companies simply keep track of who puts how much into the pipeline, then they pull the same amount out the other end, raw gas....is raw gas.
The final product is blended or "treated" at the distribution terminal, right in the trucks. The driver has a key which corresponds to each brand's additive and octane pack. He or she simply inserts the key and the additive is dispensed right into the rig.
Different brands may have a proprietary additive package or just the generic "EPA" minimum additives. Of course it's extra complicated in the 21st century by local and state regs, requiring localized blends and raising the cost for the consumer. Keep in mind the "Top Tier" fuel that's recommended by most mfgs. TT isn't necessarily the best gas available. Some excellent formulations come from Shell and BP (Amoco chemists). TT has been flopping around like a fish out of water, different brands come and go. Ideally, it's an economical way for a few local brands to share a add pack that is better than EPA min.
What else is out there? Well, a very simple and cheap fuel additive is 2-Cycle oil w/TCW-3 spec. Use it like any "top oil" in the gas at 500:1 (double the first time to coat the fuel system) that's 3oz/10G. TCW-3 spec is "ashless", which is awesome, and it has more and better of the same additives in gasoline, inc stabilizers and surfactants that improve burn. Protects against corrosion from alcohol by physical barrier and....anti-corrosives. It's a big deal if you're using corn gas. If you want to go mental, get the PZ Marine grade of 2C with organic biolube base oil and no organo-metallic additives.
I buy mine cheap at W*M by the gallon, oh $12...it comes out to $.25c to treat 10G or +$02.5c a gallon of gas. If you burn oil, I highly recommend it at whatever treat rate is needed. I use it and burn zero oil in any of my cars.
I know have a 2016 Q5, 2014 A6 3.0 and 2007 Q7 and gas is close to $4.00 it would be nice to cut back on the cost of 91 Octane.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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