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Old 04-10-2014, 02:14 PM   #1
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Default MPG

Just returned from a trip with the Q 5 w/3.2 engine.
We averaged right around 31 MPG. I think that is great so why should we get a diesel for our next Q 5? What would I have to get with the diesel to make it pay the higher price?
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:10 PM   #2
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Default 3.0T MPG

We just got back from a 400 mile trip, one way. We have a 2014 3.0T and averaged about 23 MPG with cruise control set at 78 MPH. This is after the first service. We recently rolled over 6000 miles.

On my wife's daily drive, she is getting between 21.4 and 21.7 MPG.

(All figures are calculated, not based on the computer)
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Old 04-10-2014, 05:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by xfirechief View Post
Just returned from a trip with the Q 5 w/3.2 engine.
We averaged right around 31 MPG. I think that is great so why should we get a diesel for our next Q 5? What would I have to get with the diesel to make it pay the higher price?
is that what your trip computer says? or is that what you calculated manually when you filled up your tank.

I would routinely get my 3.2 to have the OBC tell me numbers in the 30's but in reality it was like 26-27 when i checked. Of course this was few occasions. Your trip may have had a tail wind or downhill.

The diesel will consistently get those numbers. I used to average 21 with my 2.0t, 19 in my 3.2 and now i'm averaging 27.5 with my TDI. All fill ups calculated by the mileage traveled over the amount of fuel consumed.

Audi's OBC's are notorious for over exaggerating gas mileage. Many people tweak their settings with a vag-com unit to make them more accurate.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:53 AM   #4
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Default Thanks I will do it the Fill up to fill up way

I did use the vehicles readings for the MPG. Next trip I will fill up when I start and write down the miles, then add all the fuel I use plus the total miles traveled and see what that is that way.

What do u think? Higher, lower, or just about the same?
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:33 AM   #5
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The objective of fuel efficient vehicles is not to save money. Although that would be nice. It would take years to pay off the price premium that fuel efficient cars incur.

The point of the higher mpg cars is to simply use less fuel and produce fewer emissions.

I bought a Q5 TDI because of the fantastic balance of great performance at reasonable fuel efficiency. And with the stupidly overtaxed price of diesel (don't get me started on that soapbox), it's never going to be a sound financial decision. Even so, diesel fuel is only marginally more expensive than the premium I'd be putting in any other high performance engine. I drive my TDI pretty hard and I'm averaging 28 with 50/50 city/hw driving. It's and easy 36 mpg long distance though.
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:48 AM   #6
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I sure wish they had a 4 cylinder TDI Q5.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:17 AM   #7
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The objective of fuel efficient vehicles is not to save money. Although that would be nice. It would take years to pay off the price premium that fuel efficient cars incur.

The point of the higher mpg cars is to simply use less fuel and produce fewer emissions.

I bought a Q5 TDI because of the fantastic balance of great performance at reasonable fuel efficiency. And with the stupidly overtaxed price of diesel (don't get me started on that soapbox), it's never going to be a sound financial decision. Even so, diesel fuel is only marginally more expensive than the premium I'd be putting in any other high performance engine. I drive my TDI pretty hard and I'm averaging 28 with 50/50 city/hw driving. It's and easy 36 mpg long distance though.
The price premium and payoff time differs from vehicle to vehicle. Some cars don't have a huge mpg gap between their diesel and gas engined cars, or have a large price premium for the diesel, or both. Others don't.

In terms of luxury cars, it's a mixed bag. Let's look at the EPA mpgs for a few of them. For the Q5, let's look at the 3.0 vs the TDI, with the TDI's ~$2k upcharge

-3.0: 18/26/21
-TDI: 24/31/27

If the drivers get exactly the combined mpg over 12,000 miles a year, the two drivers will consume 571 and 444 gallons of gas and diesel, respectively. At the gas station by my house, premium is $3.99 and diesel is $4.09. The gas driver will spend $2278 a year on gas. The diesel driver will spend $1815 a year on gas, leaving a $463 delta. If both drivers keep their Q5s for 5 years, the diesel driver will have spent $2315 less in fuel costs than the gas driver, which covers the higher up front cost of the diesel model.

If you look at real world reported fuel economy on fuelly, diesel Q5 drivers are reporting a combined 30 mpg. With the gas V6 drivers (looking at 2013 and 2014 models, disregarding an anomalous 38mpg reading), they're reporting a combined 20 mpg. Using the same prices and driving distances for gas/diesel as above, the diesel driver saves $758 a year on fuel compared to his gas counterpart. With that delta, the diesel driver makes up the upfront price of the diesel in three years, right in line with a lease.

Same type of tradeoff with other cars. Several months ago, I ran the numbers for a MB E250 vs E350 and found a slightly quicker payoff with the diesel, at just a bit over 2.75 years.

...All that said, if I get a diesel, it's not primarily for fuel economy, although that certainly plays a part. Rather, it's the driving range and performance that I'm interested in.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:44 AM   #8
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The diesel will consistently get those numbers. I used to average 21 with my 2.0t, 19 in my 3.2 and now i'm averaging 27.5 with my TDI. All fill ups calculated by the mileage traveled over the amount of fuel consumed.
I hear you on that. My wife is averaging 21.x on her 2.0T so I was wondering how in the world xfirechief and Xylar5 are getting such high gas mileage. Then I noticed they live in Wisconsin and Texas, lol.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:02 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by xfirechief View Post
I did use the vehicles readings for the MPG. Next trip I will fill up when I start and write down the miles, then add all the fuel I use plus the total miles traveled and see what that is that way.

What do u think? Higher, lower, or just about the same?
Expect around 8% lower from what at least a number of TDI owners are seeing. Even if you call it 10%, you're still really not doing too badly with the 3.2.

I got 28-31mpg (calculated) on last Christmas's trip to the in-laws'. Less than EPA, but that's 400 miles of road that has a lot of hills and small towns, 3000' net elevation change (going up was the 28, 31 coming back), and cruise was at 75+ (70 would've likely added a couple of mpg from past experience).

The TDI is awesome (as mentioned) for range and performance, but don't go in expecting to make up the extra cost ($3500 similarly-equipped) quickly. Here, premium and diesel are pretty much even in cost, though, so there's a real savings from the extra mpg. But even better is filling up every 1.5 weeks instead of 1 week, and less need to fill up on road trips.

Last edited by idale; 04-11-2014 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:11 AM   #10
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I sure wish they had a 4 cylinder TDI Q5.
2.0 TDI in Europe, though from what I remember seeing, a number of people thought that it wasn't quite powerful enough for the Q5 and so it was working harder than ideal to get the car moving around therefore wasting more fuel than necessary. Did seem to get something like 4mpg better than the 3.0 from what I recall, but whether it's "worth it" would be hard to say (certainly if you have lots of highway miles it would be, in town I think it'd be more frustrating).

That being said, being able to have the option here would've been nice. I think the 3.0 TDI is the best overall engine option on the Q5, but when you can push the performance side more going to the SQ5's tuned 3.0T, it'd be nice to be able to push the potential economy side by going to the 2.0 TDI.
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:07 AM   #11
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Where I live must be an anomaly then. I am seeing diesel prices at my local station at $3.99 whereas the price if premium is at $4.27/gallon. I've noticed that when we switched over from the winter to summer blend, premium prices have been consistently higher than diesel.
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:17 AM   #12
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...All that said, if I get a diesel, it's not primarily for fuel economy, although that certainly plays a part. Rather, it's the driving range and performance that I'm interested in.
Nice analysis. Thanks.

I'm not sure how to break out SQ5 listings on Fuelly, and I suspect that the Q5 gas V6 is tainted. But not by much.

We just sold my wife's Camry hybrid. I calculated that we'd paid of the premium over the base 4 cylinder after 4.5 years and after 3 years over the higher end SE.

I wish Audi would bring the SQ5 BiTDI over to the states. THAT would be a fun car! And I've stated so on every Audi survey I've participated in.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:32 PM   #13
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I wish Audi would bring the SQ5 BiTDI over to the states. THAT would be a fun car! And I've stated so on every Audi survey I've participated in.
Yes!

Sign me up and Definitely would do Euro Delivery(If Possible) for the BiTDI!
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:10 PM   #14
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For me diesel is routinely 60 to 80 cents cheaper than premium . Right now diesel is 3.62, and premium is 4.37. So I'm saving MPG and fuel expense compared to my previous SUV.

While all TDI owners look for different things in ownership, for me, it's the combination of performance, mileage, fuel expense, and room/features of the Q5 TDI.

I never looked at the TDI price premium being offset by a fuel mileage savings alone.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:36 PM   #15
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Nice analysis. Thanks.

I'm not sure how to break out SQ5 listings on Fuelly, and I suspect that the Q5 gas V6 is tainted. But not by much.
There are 4 gas SQ5s listed on Fuelly:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/audi/sq5/2014/gas%20v6

You have to manually navigate to them until there are enough to make it a default selection. You can hand enter "sq5" if you are registering an SQ5 on the site to be in this group.
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Present:
'12 Audi TTRS, Ibis White, Black Alcantara, Sport Exhaust Pkg - 32k miles
'14 Audi Q5 TDI, Glacier, S Line, Sport Int, Nav, B&O, Tow - website - 20k miles
'09 VW Tiguan 2.0T, Candy White - Hers - 70k miles
Past:
'04 Porsche 911 Turbo, Speed Yellow, X50 - website - 45k miles
'08 Audi A3 2.0T, Ibis White, DSG, S-line - website - 54k miles
'02 Audi S4 Avant, Imola Yellow, APR Stg3 - website - 191k miles
'01.5 VW Golf 4dr 1.8T, Satin Silver, APR Stg3 - website - 203k miles
'00 Audi A4 1.8T, Silver, APR Stg2 - website - 61k miles
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by xfirechief View Post
Just returned from a trip with the Q 5 w/3.2 engine.
We averaged right around 31 MPG. I think that is great so why should we get a diesel for our next Q 5? What would I have to get with the diesel to make it pay the higher price?
Don't forget about resale. In a reasonable # of years, you'll still be able to sell the TDI for the offset price you originally paid. So, the fuel savings effectively start at mile #1.
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Present:
'12 Audi TTRS, Ibis White, Black Alcantara, Sport Exhaust Pkg - 32k miles
'14 Audi Q5 TDI, Glacier, S Line, Sport Int, Nav, B&O, Tow - website - 20k miles
'09 VW Tiguan 2.0T, Candy White - Hers - 70k miles
Past:
'04 Porsche 911 Turbo, Speed Yellow, X50 - website - 45k miles
'08 Audi A3 2.0T, Ibis White, DSG, S-line - website - 54k miles
'02 Audi S4 Avant, Imola Yellow, APR Stg3 - website - 191k miles
'01.5 VW Golf 4dr 1.8T, Satin Silver, APR Stg3 - website - 203k miles
'00 Audi A4 1.8T, Silver, APR Stg2 - website - 61k miles
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:56 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by xfirechief View Post
Just returned from a trip with the Q 5 w/3.2 engine.
We averaged right around 31 MPG. I think that is great so why should we get a diesel for our next Q 5? What would I have to get with the diesel to make it pay the higher price?
And here's some of the info I've captured...

While awaiting my TDI, I compared 93oct and diesel pricing at various stations around me, including the various credit card / member discounts I would get from each. Here's the result:
Click the image to open in full size.

At the time, I was comparing my future Q5 to current A3 2.0T and based on the 24ish mpg I was getting on the A3 on 93 oct, I calculated what the Q5 TDI needed to get at the corresponding diesel price at my preferred gas station as well as best price of any station I was following and determined what MPG my TDI needed to get to cost the same. Roughly it was between 24-25, and I've been getting better than that:
Click the image to open in full size.

Using those same fuel prices, I compared various MPG comparisons to see how much each combo would save. If I compare TDI at nearly 28mpg vs 3.2/3.0T at around 19mpg (per fuelly), it's probably roughly equivalent to my 30vs21 (since I don't have a 28vs19), thus looking at the solid dark green line 3rd from the top, it looks like about $5000 savings in fuel over 100k miles. As mentioned below, I anticipate that savings to be fully in my pocket as I expect to sell the TDI for the same offset (~$2k) over the 3.0T as I paid when I bought it.
Click the image to open in full size.


I also have a lot of graphs of my own cars for mileage and fuel. You can see all of those here:
http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/s4/mileage/

Here are a few relevant ones that I'll post here:

Fuel pricing over time:
Click the image to open in full size.


I'm "only" getting 26 MPG average (over winter since September) on my TDI, but I enjoy driving it and the best way to compare my results are to compare to my other cars that I've driven similar ways. As you can see, I'm notably exceeding the MPG I got on the smaller car, smaller engine, 2wd, A3. The TDI is also faster to 60 than the A3 was. It's been a great upgrade all around for me in these regards:
Click the image to open in full size.

Here you can see my actual fill-ups in closer zoom. The 30 MPG ones are from road trips. My normal commute to work is 8 miles with about 8 lights/stopsigns:
Click the image to open in full size.

Here you can see that the original Trip Computer was reporting 10% optimistic for me. I've updated that to get more accurate values:
Click the image to open in full size.

Range / less fill-ups is great too:
Click the image to open in full size.
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Present:
'12 Audi TTRS, Ibis White, Black Alcantara, Sport Exhaust Pkg - 32k miles
'14 Audi Q5 TDI, Glacier, S Line, Sport Int, Nav, B&O, Tow - website - 20k miles
'09 VW Tiguan 2.0T, Candy White - Hers - 70k miles
Past:
'04 Porsche 911 Turbo, Speed Yellow, X50 - website - 45k miles
'08 Audi A3 2.0T, Ibis White, DSG, S-line - website - 54k miles
'02 Audi S4 Avant, Imola Yellow, APR Stg3 - website - 191k miles
'01.5 VW Golf 4dr 1.8T, Satin Silver, APR Stg3 - website - 203k miles
'00 Audi A4 1.8T, Silver, APR Stg2 - website - 61k miles
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:17 PM   #18
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That's all fine and good Mark, but next time how about some facts to back your opinion
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:04 PM   #19
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That's all fine and good Mark, but next time how about some facts to back your opinion
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Present:
'12 Audi TTRS, Ibis White, Black Alcantara, Sport Exhaust Pkg - 32k miles
'14 Audi Q5 TDI, Glacier, S Line, Sport Int, Nav, B&O, Tow - website - 20k miles
'09 VW Tiguan 2.0T, Candy White - Hers - 70k miles
Past:
'04 Porsche 911 Turbo, Speed Yellow, X50 - website - 45k miles
'08 Audi A3 2.0T, Ibis White, DSG, S-line - website - 54k miles
'02 Audi S4 Avant, Imola Yellow, APR Stg3 - website - 191k miles
'01.5 VW Golf 4dr 1.8T, Satin Silver, APR Stg3 - website - 203k miles
'00 Audi A4 1.8T, Silver, APR Stg2 - website - 61k miles
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:00 AM   #20
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That's all fine and good Mark, but next time how about some facts to back your opinion
Lol we need to make an appendix section for Mark so he can post all the data!
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