New Blizzak LM-80 V rated Non-RF Snow Tire
11-22-2014, 01:58 PM
#21
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Bingo On Dunlops for what you describe...
What I use on our Q5. I have an even more mixed application. I live in SF Bay Area but have a place in Tahoe. Here many drive around with full on summers all year. But, head to mountains and temp can be even below zero at times, and storms can be 1-3 feet overnight. A Blizzak type tire would drive me nuts on Bay Area freeways (and did on the minivan first set). Instead Dunlops 3D's are quiet enough, have reasonable dry highway performance and ride, but perform well on the icy hard cold roads in the Sierra's when I need to count on them. They aren't an aggressive tread tire for endless cut up crud or mud or any pretend off road, but tradeoff is the better ride and quiet. Quattro also gets me all the general "go" traction I need, including on the 450HP mega torque no lag W12 for that matter with a similar performance winter.
And nope, not A/S's either. Sure as the snow falls up there, endless shiny new SUV's and all else parade up with their "flatlander" tires. Somehow the vehicle at a 60 degree angle up a pole (XC90), upside down in a ditch (Jeep), doing a 180 in front of me (RAM 4x4), skidding 20 feet through the Safeway stop sign on the downslope (many), etc. wasn't quite like the blast through the drifts I'm invincible macho TV commercial. Or, as they painfully all found/find out, AWD is about irrelevant on the "stop" part, and tires are the biggest delta. Having tried several A/S flavors there even in swing season, what they did do was technically get me through chain control given "quattro" badging. For any emergency situation or even general braking on hard pack or ice, really sub par. Also fun are the 300 foot stops from only 25mph downhill into a T intersection with a stop sign. Not--push and pray, and count to about 10 as the ABS cycles. Dedicated snows went on the first AWD within a week of that and a few other wake up calls back 18 years ago now.
And nope, not A/S's either. Sure as the snow falls up there, endless shiny new SUV's and all else parade up with their "flatlander" tires. Somehow the vehicle at a 60 degree angle up a pole (XC90), upside down in a ditch (Jeep), doing a 180 in front of me (RAM 4x4), skidding 20 feet through the Safeway stop sign on the downslope (many), etc. wasn't quite like the blast through the drifts I'm invincible macho TV commercial. Or, as they painfully all found/find out, AWD is about irrelevant on the "stop" part, and tires are the biggest delta. Having tried several A/S flavors there even in swing season, what they did do was technically get me through chain control given "quattro" badging. For any emergency situation or even general braking on hard pack or ice, really sub par. Also fun are the 300 foot stops from only 25mph downhill into a T intersection with a stop sign. Not--push and pray, and count to about 10 as the ABS cycles. Dedicated snows went on the first AWD within a week of that and a few other wake up calls back 18 years ago now.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 11-22-2014 at 02:12 PM.
11-22-2014, 05:15 PM
#22
AudiWorld Expert
The guidelines to obtain the M+S rating on all-season tires is a joke really. It only considers the tread design, but completely ignores the rubber compound, which means an all-season tire is allowed to harden as much as a summer tire in cold weather.
What Does M+S Mean? | DriveSmartBC
UHP all-seasons typically are the worst winter performers out of all all-season tires because they are geared more towards summer handling, and hence sacrifice cold weather characteristics. Granted, maybe not as bad as true summer tires, but still pretty bad, based on my experience with tires such as Bridgestone RE960, RE970, and Conti DWS.
The main reason why I run the a/s Bridgestones on my BMW during Spring, Summer, and Fall is because they offer slightly longer treadlife. I take them off for Winter.
Last edited by ex-quattro PETE; 11-23-2014 at 06:32 AM.
11-23-2014, 06:24 AM
#23
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Well, I went and played with an A6 with UHP Conti all seasons today. About 40F dry.
The Blizzaks have broken in after 150 miles, so I got a chance to push both pretty hard.
Pete clearly has more experience than I do, as most others here do, but I agree completely and there's no way I'll own an AS tire. Ever. Otherwise, why did I buy that car at all? Here's why.
Near the limits, and off the line, the LM Blizzaks feel controlled, predictable and well-mannered with good stability.
Braking hard from 115 to 60 they'll sway around a touch as stability control comes in play but there's no emerging feeling of a problem. 60-0 is comfortable. Typical stop-and-go commuting-stye 35-0 is very good.
Cornering, unlike a summer tire, is not on rails, but the experience is pretty cool; feels like surfing around, just a touch.
0-60 manual they'll slip but back off a touch and they stick very nicely. 60-100 they feel like they drift side-to-side just a little bit, but nerves stay intact.
But all seasons gave me "holy sh(t" moments from the minute I pushed the car. Stability control overtime and many exercises simply could not be attempted safely. I'd swear under their breath howling and moaning I heard them say "warning: collision deductible and a week in a Kia head...."
Braking performance was abysmal. Cornering, don't even think about it, because Quattro may keep you in the game but the tire won't hold up. And even if it did, you're pretty sure if something is around that tight turn you're going to hit it even if you brake wisely. That leads to total Sunday driving mode.
And that's dry conditions....
That being said, my GF in her Q5 3.0 could care less. She just wants to merge/pass well and, on rare occasion, embarrass a Scion with a tin foil exhaust. I have no evidence, but I think about 95% of drivers fall into that category and that's why most performing autos are sold with AS tires.
The Blizzaks have broken in after 150 miles, so I got a chance to push both pretty hard.
Pete clearly has more experience than I do, as most others here do, but I agree completely and there's no way I'll own an AS tire. Ever. Otherwise, why did I buy that car at all? Here's why.
Near the limits, and off the line, the LM Blizzaks feel controlled, predictable and well-mannered with good stability.
Braking hard from 115 to 60 they'll sway around a touch as stability control comes in play but there's no emerging feeling of a problem. 60-0 is comfortable. Typical stop-and-go commuting-stye 35-0 is very good.
Cornering, unlike a summer tire, is not on rails, but the experience is pretty cool; feels like surfing around, just a touch.
0-60 manual they'll slip but back off a touch and they stick very nicely. 60-100 they feel like they drift side-to-side just a little bit, but nerves stay intact.
But all seasons gave me "holy sh(t" moments from the minute I pushed the car. Stability control overtime and many exercises simply could not be attempted safely. I'd swear under their breath howling and moaning I heard them say "warning: collision deductible and a week in a Kia head...."
Braking performance was abysmal. Cornering, don't even think about it, because Quattro may keep you in the game but the tire won't hold up. And even if it did, you're pretty sure if something is around that tight turn you're going to hit it even if you brake wisely. That leads to total Sunday driving mode.
And that's dry conditions....
That being said, my GF in her Q5 3.0 could care less. She just wants to merge/pass well and, on rare occasion, embarrass a Scion with a tin foil exhaust. I have no evidence, but I think about 95% of drivers fall into that category and that's why most performing autos are sold with AS tires.
Last edited by SamLV; 11-23-2014 at 06:28 AM.
11-23-2014, 08:23 PM
#24
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great perspectives and info! MP4.2, im from Reno originally so have a lot of experience driving in the Sierras and avoiding the idiots you described. Im very glad i did not end up with all seasons now! i had all seasons (oem goodyear runflats and nitto 420s) on my SRT jeep and that was often a white knuckle affair - start in 2nd with stability control OFF and feather and use engine braking and lots of praying when stopping. look forward to a much more relaxed experience now.
11-24-2014, 02:15 AM
#25
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Well, I went and played with an A6 with UHP Conti all seasons today. About 40F dry.
The Blizzaks have broken in after 150 miles, so I got a chance to push both pretty hard.
Pete clearly has more experience than I do, as most others here do, but I agree completely and there's no way I'll own an AS tire. Ever. Otherwise, why did I buy that car at all? Here's why.
Near the limits, and off the line, the LM Blizzaks feel controlled, predictable and well-mannered with good stability.
Braking hard from 115 to 60 they'll sway around a touch as stability control comes in play but there's no emerging feeling of a problem. 60-0 is comfortable. Typical stop-and-go commuting-stye 35-0 is very good.
Cornering, unlike a summer tire, is not on rails, but the experience is pretty cool; feels like surfing around, just a touch.
0-60 manual they'll slip but back off a touch and they stick very nicely. 60-100 they feel like they drift side-to-side just a little bit, but nerves stay intact.
But all seasons gave me "holy sh(t" moments from the minute I pushed the car. Stability control overtime and many exercises simply could not be attempted safely. I'd swear under their breath howling and moaning I heard them say "warning: collision deductible and a week in a Kia head...."
Braking performance was abysmal. Cornering, don't even think about it, because Quattro may keep you in the game but the tire won't hold up. And even if it did, you're pretty sure if something is around that tight turn you're going to hit it even if you brake wisely. That leads to total Sunday driving mode.
And that's dry conditions....
That being said, my GF in her Q5 3.0 could care less. She just wants to merge/pass well and, on rare occasion, embarrass a Scion with a tin foil exhaust. I have no evidence, but I think about 95% of drivers fall into that category and that's why most performing autos are sold with AS tires.
The Blizzaks have broken in after 150 miles, so I got a chance to push both pretty hard.
Pete clearly has more experience than I do, as most others here do, but I agree completely and there's no way I'll own an AS tire. Ever. Otherwise, why did I buy that car at all? Here's why.
Near the limits, and off the line, the LM Blizzaks feel controlled, predictable and well-mannered with good stability.
Braking hard from 115 to 60 they'll sway around a touch as stability control comes in play but there's no emerging feeling of a problem. 60-0 is comfortable. Typical stop-and-go commuting-stye 35-0 is very good.
Cornering, unlike a summer tire, is not on rails, but the experience is pretty cool; feels like surfing around, just a touch.
0-60 manual they'll slip but back off a touch and they stick very nicely. 60-100 they feel like they drift side-to-side just a little bit, but nerves stay intact.
But all seasons gave me "holy sh(t" moments from the minute I pushed the car. Stability control overtime and many exercises simply could not be attempted safely. I'd swear under their breath howling and moaning I heard them say "warning: collision deductible and a week in a Kia head...."
Braking performance was abysmal. Cornering, don't even think about it, because Quattro may keep you in the game but the tire won't hold up. And even if it did, you're pretty sure if something is around that tight turn you're going to hit it even if you brake wisely. That leads to total Sunday driving mode.
And that's dry conditions....
That being said, my GF in her Q5 3.0 could care less. She just wants to merge/pass well and, on rare occasion, embarrass a Scion with a tin foil exhaust. I have no evidence, but I think about 95% of drivers fall into that category and that's why most performing autos are sold with AS tires.
Could you please comment on how loud the tread noise is? If you have driven Pirelli, please compare the tread noise to the Scorpion Ice & Snow or Winter or any other snow tire you have owned.
Also how do you compare the cold/dry weather performance to other winter snow tires you have owned?
Thanks.
11-26-2014, 02:12 AM
#26
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This is the first set of wintr tires I've owned in modern times; the last were snows for an RX7 so I cannot help with with the direct comparason you're asking about. The Blizzaks are very quiet, very smooth, yet comfortably numb. They do sing, but not annoyingly so, above 70MPH on smooth highway, but stop doing that around 95. They'll sing again around 115 and present an odd floating feel side to side, just a bit, above 85, especially in a cross wind over 15mph. With summer tires I only notice high winds, about 35 mph or more.
I'm willing to be wrong, but the compounds they use to manufacture the tire take some time to wear off. Before putting 125 miles on them they could feel dangerously slick and traction control may jolt the car when hitting the throttle. One example is jumping a gap into passing traffic from a side street. Another is just manual 0-60 from a stop light dead straight. And that singing started after break in. Before that I didn't hear a thing. I'll take the singing over the slipping though.
Today there will be snow. I will be playing in it. 😎
I'm willing to be wrong, but the compounds they use to manufacture the tire take some time to wear off. Before putting 125 miles on them they could feel dangerously slick and traction control may jolt the car when hitting the throttle. One example is jumping a gap into passing traffic from a side street. Another is just manual 0-60 from a stop light dead straight. And that singing started after break in. Before that I didn't hear a thing. I'll take the singing over the slipping though.
Today there will be snow. I will be playing in it. 😎
12-02-2014, 11:17 PM
#30
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Incredible. Keep in mind my comparisons are RX7 era studless snows and AS but I've owned and driven a lot of configurations, because I'm getting old, and between Quattro and those tires I'm impressed. By far best snow performance I've ever had. No if only others would kindly just pull over when they can't get around.....
On dry roads, they continued to improve after 250 miles. Not quite as stable at 115 as summers but passable.
On wet roads, they're also excellent.
On dry roads, they continued to improve after 250 miles. Not quite as stable at 115 as summers but passable.
On wet roads, they're also excellent.