NY Times: VW Is Said to Cheat on Diesel Emissions; U.S. Orders Big Recall
10-05-2015, 08:42 AM
#221
AudiWorld Super User
Today's WSJ says that VW is now looking at their top engineers, who might have done this on their own because of excess pressure to perform. (Uhuh.)
"And diesel will not only survive but thrive. They make up half of all sales in the EU, and are not popular in the US due to low gas prices. "
That's not quite right. Diesel engines were largely PROHIBITED in the US because they give off large quantities or particulates (the black soot you see from 18-wheelers under load) and large quantities of NOx (nitrous oxide) both of which have been found to be heavy and dangerous health hazards in the US.
By contrast, the EU doesn't care about soot and thinks our artificial sweeteners will kill more people than their diesels will, so they ban our sweeteners and we ban their engines.
Volkswagen's big lie was that they COULD meet the US standards, and meantime, there's talk in the EU about raising standards for clean air emissions and banning the engines they've used there as well.
Then of course there is China, the world's largest market, and they aren't happy about yellow haze in the cities either.
I strongly suspect VW will be made to pay reparations in the US:
-To the fed, for increased medical care costs
-To the fed, for criminal fraud violations
-To the class actions, for "diminished value" as well as extra fuel costs (perhaps being forced to mail a "get 500 gallons free" card to owners?)
-To make a repurchase offer, perhaps a "Get 20% above book value if you trade it in" or a similar heavy discount on a new car
All sorts of options are open. But as the Fed has proved with recent fines and penalties, they're getting tired of this crap, the lies and outright crimes and coverups, from many businesses including the car makers especially. The VOTERS are even complaining, and there's always an election year coming up when someone wants to be the hero and make sure the voters are looking forward to checks.
I could see VW being ordered to allow any diesel owner very generous terms on an electric or hybrid for the next decade--and ordered to bring them to market, as compensation. Or simply told "you have to replace 250,000 cars with zero-emission hybrids, you figure out how".
But with VW stock having gone down some 41% so far and no bottom in sight, VW had damned well better get creative. If the stock gets cheap enough--the Chinese CAN literally buy the company outright.
"And diesel will not only survive but thrive. They make up half of all sales in the EU, and are not popular in the US due to low gas prices. "
That's not quite right. Diesel engines were largely PROHIBITED in the US because they give off large quantities or particulates (the black soot you see from 18-wheelers under load) and large quantities of NOx (nitrous oxide) both of which have been found to be heavy and dangerous health hazards in the US.
By contrast, the EU doesn't care about soot and thinks our artificial sweeteners will kill more people than their diesels will, so they ban our sweeteners and we ban their engines.
Volkswagen's big lie was that they COULD meet the US standards, and meantime, there's talk in the EU about raising standards for clean air emissions and banning the engines they've used there as well.
Then of course there is China, the world's largest market, and they aren't happy about yellow haze in the cities either.
I strongly suspect VW will be made to pay reparations in the US:
-To the fed, for increased medical care costs
-To the fed, for criminal fraud violations
-To the class actions, for "diminished value" as well as extra fuel costs (perhaps being forced to mail a "get 500 gallons free" card to owners?)
-To make a repurchase offer, perhaps a "Get 20% above book value if you trade it in" or a similar heavy discount on a new car
All sorts of options are open. But as the Fed has proved with recent fines and penalties, they're getting tired of this crap, the lies and outright crimes and coverups, from many businesses including the car makers especially. The VOTERS are even complaining, and there's always an election year coming up when someone wants to be the hero and make sure the voters are looking forward to checks.
I could see VW being ordered to allow any diesel owner very generous terms on an electric or hybrid for the next decade--and ordered to bring them to market, as compensation. Or simply told "you have to replace 250,000 cars with zero-emission hybrids, you figure out how".
But with VW stock having gone down some 41% so far and no bottom in sight, VW had damned well better get creative. If the stock gets cheap enough--the Chinese CAN literally buy the company outright.
10-05-2015, 08:56 PM
#222
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The can of worms is just starting to open. The Audi tech that I spoke to stated that while the Q5 is not yet implicated, it is only a matter of time, even with the ad blue system. Data was faked all over the place with the TDI engineering including the general specs.
In the Pacific Northwest, driving a TDI is equal to driving a Hummer. People are being shamed, cars getting damaged. At my work, everyone is saying something about my TDI in a bad, killing the environment way. Not good for my reputation as a professional.
No thanks I am done (even though I love my TDI's power/torque).
In the Pacific Northwest, driving a TDI is equal to driving a Hummer. People are being shamed, cars getting damaged. At my work, everyone is saying something about my TDI in a bad, killing the environment way. Not good for my reputation as a professional.
No thanks I am done (even though I love my TDI's power/torque).
10-06-2015, 05:20 AM
#223
AudiWorld Senior Member
The can of worms is just starting to open. The Audi tech that I spoke to stated that while the Q5 is not yet implicated, it is only a matter of time, even with the ad blue system. Data was faked all over the place with the TDI engineering including the general specs.
In the Pacific Northwest, driving a TDI is equal to driving a Hummer. People are being shamed, cars getting damaged. At my work, everyone is saying something about my TDI in a bad, killing the environment way. Not good for my reputation as a professional.
No thanks I am done (even though I love my TDI's power/torque).
In the Pacific Northwest, driving a TDI is equal to driving a Hummer. People are being shamed, cars getting damaged. At my work, everyone is saying something about my TDI in a bad, killing the environment way. Not good for my reputation as a professional.
No thanks I am done (even though I love my TDI's power/torque).
10-06-2015, 05:35 AM
#224
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
I am hoping the Q5 TDI emissions are ok.
The X5 diesel in the UWV testing was OK. I believe the X5 has a 15,000 service interval. The X5 has about a 6 gallon DEF capacity. Now the folks over at bimmerfest indicate that their X5 need DEF top-off sometimes before their 15K service interval. Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums
My Q5 TDI had a warning for low DEF just before my 15K service. It clearly is using the fluid.
This is somewhat hopeful in my optimistic mind.
The X5 diesel in the UWV testing was OK. I believe the X5 has a 15,000 service interval. The X5 has about a 6 gallon DEF capacity. Now the folks over at bimmerfest indicate that their X5 need DEF top-off sometimes before their 15K service interval. Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums
My Q5 TDI had a warning for low DEF just before my 15K service. It clearly is using the fluid.
This is somewhat hopeful in my optimistic mind.
Last edited by DennisMitchell; 10-06-2015 at 05:38 AM.
10-06-2015, 05:39 AM
#225
AudiWorld Senior Member
The can of worms is just starting to open. The Audi tech that I spoke to stated that while the Q5 is not yet implicated, it is only a matter of time, even with the ad blue system. Data was faked all over the place with the TDI engineering including the general specs.
In the Pacific Northwest, driving a TDI is equal to driving a Hummer. People are being shamed, cars getting damaged. At my work, everyone is saying something about my TDI in a bad, killing the environment way. Not good for my reputation as a professional.
No thanks I am done (even though I love my TDI's power/torque).
In the Pacific Northwest, driving a TDI is equal to driving a Hummer. People are being shamed, cars getting damaged. At my work, everyone is saying something about my TDI in a bad, killing the environment way. Not good for my reputation as a professional.
No thanks I am done (even though I love my TDI's power/torque).
If you have coworkers making comments about your car because it's a diesel which you bought long before knowing all of this, I'd say they have other issues vs. what you happen to be driving.
10-06-2015, 06:11 AM
#226
AudiWorld Senior Member
I am hoping the Q5 TDI emissions are ok.
The X5 diesel in the UWV testing was OK. I believe the X5 has a 15,000 service interval. The X5 has about a 6 gallon DEF capacity. Now the folks over at bimmerfest indicate that their X5 need DEF top-off sometimes before their 15K service interval. Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums
My Q5 TDI had a warning for low DEF just before my 15K service. It clearly is using the fluid.
This is somewhat hopeful in my optimistic mind.
The X5 diesel in the UWV testing was OK. I believe the X5 has a 15,000 service interval. The X5 has about a 6 gallon DEF capacity. Now the folks over at bimmerfest indicate that their X5 need DEF top-off sometimes before their 15K service interval. Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums
My Q5 TDI had a warning for low DEF just before my 15K service. It clearly is using the fluid.
This is somewhat hopeful in my optimistic mind.
Google found an article that indicates that the X5 is about 6 gallons capacity too.... so that would seem to be good news...
I think worst case for us may be a need to add AdBlue between services... which will be fine with me. I go much less than 15K per year anyway so I will be less than 10K between services.
10-06-2015, 07:28 AM
#227
>>>My Q5 TDI had a warning for low DEF just before my 15K service. It clearly is using the fluid.>>>
For whatever is worth, the 2013 Passat TDI we have that is part of the recall also uses adblue. I had to refill not a long time ago, the light came on.
10-06-2015, 07:36 AM
#228
AudiWorld Member
10-06-2015, 07:46 AM
#229
AudiWorld Member
In the Pacific Northwest, driving a TDI is equal to driving a Hummer. People are being shamed, cars getting damaged. At my work, everyone is saying something about my TDI in a bad, killing the environment way. Not good for my reputation as a professional.
No thanks I am done (even though I love my TDI's power/torque).
No thanks I am done (even though I love my TDI's power/torque).
10-06-2015, 07:47 AM
#230
AudiWorld Member