Q5 TDI vs. A6 TDI
#11
I understand that big wheels are purchased mostly for looks and the aftermarket shops love them in terms of the revenue potential, but frankly this is about the biggest downgrade one could possibly do to one's vehicle in terms of the dynamics. unsprung weight is the enemy that chassis engineers go to extreme lengths to get rid off (e.g. in some porsches they use titanium lug nuts and hollow out the wheel spokes). a long time ago, they even mounted the brake discs inboard (away from the wheel hubs) to cut unsprung weight... that is how big of a deal unsprung weight is.
sure, excessive sidewalls that are flabby hurt cornering precision but I think the ever shrinking sidewall height has gone past the point of optimal a very long time ago.
if you are not aware, the bigger the wheels, the heavier the wheels are... the portion of the wheel, with the brakes are "unsprung".. they are not part of the masses suspended by the springs... if you wonder why the car rides so poorly it is primarily because of this. every ounce of unsprung weight disproportionately hurts the dynamics of the car, not just going over rippled pavement; it also hampers the ability of the suspension to keep the tires planted on the ground when cornering.. thus your ride quality worsens and your handling on less than perfect pavement worsens too...
spending money to downgrade one's vehicle makes zero sense to me.. if looks matter that much, challenge yourself to find stylish looking wheels that don't increase unsprung weight. e.g. darkened wheels tend to offset some of the visual bulk of the Q5; if you really want to get monster wheels, then shop for those that don't weigh more than the stock wheels.. these tend to be the forged wheels that cost a lot of money. nowadays when I buy a car, I will spec the smallest diameter wheel possible.. When I bought my winter set I went down to 18s and found a set of very attractive looking RS4 replica wheels. The Q5 looks anything but wimpy with those and yet there is no perceivable difference in cornering while ride quality improved.. 6 pounds of unsprung weight was cut, which is huge.
to me, monster wheels are the 21st century equivalent of folgers coffee can exhausts that were very popular on honda civics 20 years ago..
sure, excessive sidewalls that are flabby hurt cornering precision but I think the ever shrinking sidewall height has gone past the point of optimal a very long time ago.
if you are not aware, the bigger the wheels, the heavier the wheels are... the portion of the wheel, with the brakes are "unsprung".. they are not part of the masses suspended by the springs... if you wonder why the car rides so poorly it is primarily because of this. every ounce of unsprung weight disproportionately hurts the dynamics of the car, not just going over rippled pavement; it also hampers the ability of the suspension to keep the tires planted on the ground when cornering.. thus your ride quality worsens and your handling on less than perfect pavement worsens too...
spending money to downgrade one's vehicle makes zero sense to me.. if looks matter that much, challenge yourself to find stylish looking wheels that don't increase unsprung weight. e.g. darkened wheels tend to offset some of the visual bulk of the Q5; if you really want to get monster wheels, then shop for those that don't weigh more than the stock wheels.. these tend to be the forged wheels that cost a lot of money. nowadays when I buy a car, I will spec the smallest diameter wheel possible.. When I bought my winter set I went down to 18s and found a set of very attractive looking RS4 replica wheels. The Q5 looks anything but wimpy with those and yet there is no perceivable difference in cornering while ride quality improved.. 6 pounds of unsprung weight was cut, which is huge.
to me, monster wheels are the 21st century equivalent of folgers coffee can exhausts that were very popular on honda civics 20 years ago..
Last edited by lja36; 05-17-2015 at 12:22 PM.
#12
AudiWorld Expert
lja36, well said.
Huge wheels have one positive (looks), and many negatives: cost of rims, cost of tires, cost of repairs, harsher ride, worse performance.
On the Q5, I can see how 20s could still work, just based on how much tire sidewall is still left. But on the A6, 20s are definitely form over function.
Huge wheels have one positive (looks), and many negatives: cost of rims, cost of tires, cost of repairs, harsher ride, worse performance.
On the Q5, I can see how 20s could still work, just based on how much tire sidewall is still left. But on the A6, 20s are definitely form over function.
#13
lja36, well said.
Huge wheels have one positive (looks), and many negatives: cost of rims, cost of tires, cost of repairs, harsher ride, worse performance.
On the Q5, I can see how 20s could still work, just based on how much tire sidewall is still left. But on the A6, 20s are definitely form over function.
Huge wheels have one positive (looks), and many negatives: cost of rims, cost of tires, cost of repairs, harsher ride, worse performance.
On the Q5, I can see how 20s could still work, just based on how much tire sidewall is still left. But on the A6, 20s are definitely form over function.
Well, I think a 20 inch combo on the A6 will weigh less than a 20 inch combo on a Q5 because the Q5 has bigger tires, which weigh more. There's a reason why SUVs generally have a choppy unsettled ride... too much unsprung weight. IMO 20 inch is too big for either.. 17 or 18 is probably closer to optimal. That comment is going to horrify many I'm sure but I am looking at this purely from the point of view of the engineering, not the aesthetics... Formula 1 cars have 13 inch wheels, do you think anybody is going to think they are wimpy looking? I was biting my tongue for the longest time when I saw so many posts about how big to go and not a single person was talking about going smaller in the interests of better dynamics... Oh well I finally broke down... heh heh.
#14
AudiWorld Senior Member
A pro of larger wheels in diameter not talking about rim size but overall tire size in diameter is that they absorb pot holes better and other road imperfections. Of course if you have a thin sidewall it's still bad but i think part of the push to go with bigger wheels is that they improve ride comfort in that the wheel rolls over pot holes instead of swallowing it.
#15
We have both (2014 A6 and 2015 Q5), the Q5 has more sound insulation that filter out the sound of the engine (you can barely notice it). In the A6 the noise is more pronounced especially as you rev it up. The A6 has a nicer interior, feels a bit more refined and drives/corners better. Neither have sports suspensions. If I could keep one it would be the Q5.
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#16
I understand that big wheels are purchased mostly for looks and the aftermarket shops love them in terms of the revenue potential, but frankly this is about the biggest downgrade one could possibly do to one's vehicle in terms of the dynamics. unsprung weight is the enemy that chassis engineers go to extreme lengths to get rid off (e.g. in some porsches they use titanium lug nuts and hollow out the wheel spokes). a long time ago, they even mounted the brake discs inboard (away from the wheel hubs) to cut unsprung weight... that is how big of a deal unsprung weight is.
Well said -- I bought a used '99 Miata with only 47K miles on it about four years ago. The asking price had been reduced and reduced and reduced again because during test drives it was shaking like Jello in an earthquake. I took a chance that it was only an alignment or a bent wheel or an unbalanced tire, saved about $3K from original asking. Sure enough one tire had a nail in it, was down to 10 PSI, and once it was repaired the car rode very smoothly. However, the previous knucklehead owner had put 17" wheels and low-profile tires on it, so I went ahead and bought lightweight 15" wheels (the stock size). Saved 9.5 pounds per corner, or 38 pounds overall, of unsprung weight and the car's legendary slot-car handling just came to life. My brother-in-law bought the car so I still have visitation rights! ;-)
#17
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I admit that my main reason for looking at one with 20" wheels is due to the fact that Vossens are, well, beautiful, and I would love some CV4s on my Q5. However if the 20" wheels really do compromise the ride quality and driving experience then I will be fine with the (very good looking) stock 19s.
Thanks again for your guys' input!
Thanks again for your guys' input!
Last edited by gagethrash; 05-21-2015 at 06:11 PM.
#19
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#20