Q5 timing chain failed at 70k
05-17-2016, 10:51 AM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Audi is surely aware that some 45 years ago, US state and federal courts ruled that a warranty cannot be affected--at all--by the owner's choice of using third parties or third-party material, as long as those issues are up to the manufacturer's standards and specifically UNLESS the manufacturer can prove the third party parts/labor caused the warranty failure.
Yes, that is about warranty and your are technically not under warranty. Nevertheless, you might want to remind Audi that state and federal courts have made it repeatedly clear that UNLRELATED THIRD PARTY WORK, like an oil change, cannot legally be used as a basis to decide whether owners enjoy any protection or service from car makers.
Unless they are willing to state in writing that your timing chain failed because it was improperly lubricated, as a result of your third party service...then their answer has nothing to do with your problem, and I'd expect it would be time for an attorney's letter suggesting that a designated "lifetime" part should be considered expressly warranted for just that long. Their choice, step up and play nice, or let the courts remind them that this type of situation was decided long ago, all across the land.
Use the carrot once, then get out the stick.
Also, timing chains don't just "fail" while a car is parked. Not unless Chinese hackers were partying in your driveway overnight. There's something else wrong here, and perhaps the NHTSA should be notified of unexplained timing chain failures, which could cause unexpected engine failure and risk of accident.
It's a part. An unwarranted part. OK, fine. But their story and their response both make no sense, and that's inexcusable.
Yes, that is about warranty and your are technically not under warranty. Nevertheless, you might want to remind Audi that state and federal courts have made it repeatedly clear that UNLRELATED THIRD PARTY WORK, like an oil change, cannot legally be used as a basis to decide whether owners enjoy any protection or service from car makers.
Unless they are willing to state in writing that your timing chain failed because it was improperly lubricated, as a result of your third party service...then their answer has nothing to do with your problem, and I'd expect it would be time for an attorney's letter suggesting that a designated "lifetime" part should be considered expressly warranted for just that long. Their choice, step up and play nice, or let the courts remind them that this type of situation was decided long ago, all across the land.
Use the carrot once, then get out the stick.
Also, timing chains don't just "fail" while a car is parked. Not unless Chinese hackers were partying in your driveway overnight. There's something else wrong here, and perhaps the NHTSA should be notified of unexplained timing chain failures, which could cause unexpected engine failure and risk of accident.
It's a part. An unwarranted part. OK, fine. But their story and their response both make no sense, and that's inexcusable.
05-17-2016, 01:42 PM
#12
AudiWorld Member
I guess my concern is this, if the car ran fine until parked and then didn't exhibit any issues until an attempt to start it the next morning then I cant see where $7700 in damage came from. While I can see the tensioner failing and that the engine is more than likely a interference engine design I cant see that kind of damage from an attempt to start.
I would have a 3rd party garage check the vehicle over before I shelled out $7700 for repairs.
I would have a 3rd party garage check the vehicle over before I shelled out $7700 for repairs.
05-17-2016, 02:30 PM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
I could see an interference type engine having expensive damage. That's one reason why timing belts and chains have a scheduled replacement life, to prevent that. But even if the belt itself didn't fail, but the *tensioner* on a belt failed...it would seem odd to have a catastrophic failure on start-up, before there is any significant rpm increase on the engine.
05-17-2016, 04:02 PM
#14
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Timing chain tensioner
Thanks for all the input. I did call AUDI America and they said they cannot help due to the fact that I had my last two oil changes at an independent car service. That's just an excuse. I think AUDI or VW, after being involved in the emission scandal, is jeopardizing its reputation by trying to save cost at the expense of customer service and quality assurance. Very sad to see that. This will be my last AUDI until they can make good car with quality assurance again.
05-17-2016, 04:14 PM
#15
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thanks for all the input. I did call AUDI America and they said they cannot help due to the fact that I had my last two oil changes at an independent car service. That's just an excuse. I think AUDI or VW, after being involved in the emission scandal, is jeopardizing its reputation by trying to save cost at the expense of customer service and quality assurance. Very sad to see that. This will be my last AUDI until they can make good car with quality assurance again.
05-17-2016, 05:58 PM
#16
AudiWorld Member
Really disconcerting given this has been happening across quite a few model years (looking at other blogs and websites appears to be an issue up to mid-2012) - hard to believe that while Audi has made a number of production changes to the part, thereby tacitly admitting that it had a deficiency, they don't just issue a recall and get rid of the drip, drip, drip of death by a thousand cuts... and I'm guessing several hundred disgruntled owners (VW and Audi) across US and Canada spreading poison about the brand. To my mind this issue strikes a far more devastating gut level blow than some others that have got a lot of press lately.
Just got a quote from local dealer today about preemptive part replacement and with labor and other recommended parts and pieces it'll be just over $C 2200 (~$US 1700 at today's exchange rate). I think I'll get it done before we head out on our annual road trip to Phoenix this winter. Pretty expensive insurance :-(. Their main engine tech told me today he guessed that about 5% of all the 2.0T engined cars the dealership has sold over the last few years have come back with this problem but that most threw error codes or made some kind of noise and were fixed before catastrophic failure occurred.
Just got a quote from local dealer today about preemptive part replacement and with labor and other recommended parts and pieces it'll be just over $C 2200 (~$US 1700 at today's exchange rate). I think I'll get it done before we head out on our annual road trip to Phoenix this winter. Pretty expensive insurance :-(. Their main engine tech told me today he guessed that about 5% of all the 2.0T engined cars the dealership has sold over the last few years have come back with this problem but that most threw error codes or made some kind of noise and were fixed before catastrophic failure occurred.
Last edited by rez; 05-17-2016 at 06:14 PM.
05-18-2016, 05:46 AM
#17
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Q5
Audi is surely aware that some 45 years ago, US state and federal courts ruled that a warranty cannot be affected--at all--by the owner's choice of using third parties or third-party material, as long as those issues are up to the manufacturer's standards and specifically UNLESS the manufacturer can prove the third party parts/labor caused the warranty failure.
Yes, that is about warranty and your are technically not under warranty. Nevertheless, you might want to remind Audi that state and federal courts have made it repeatedly clear that UNLRELATED THIRD PARTY WORK, like an oil change, cannot legally be used as a basis to decide whether owners enjoy any protection or service from car makers.
Unless they are willing to state in writing that your timing chain failed because it was improperly lubricated, as a result of your third party service...then their answer has nothing to do with your problem, and I'd expect it would be time for an attorney's letter suggesting that a designated "lifetime" part should be considered expressly warranted for just that long. Their choice, step up and play nice, or let the courts remind them that this type of situation was decided long ago, all across the land.
Use the carrot once, then get out the stick.
Also, timing chains don't just "fail" while a car is parked. Not unless Chinese hackers were partying in your driveway overnight. There's something else wrong here, and perhaps the NHTSA should be notified of unexplained timing chain failures, which could cause unexpected engine failure and risk of accident.
It's a part. An unwarranted part. OK, fine. But their story and their response both make no sense, and that's inexcusable.
Yes, that is about warranty and your are technically not under warranty. Nevertheless, you might want to remind Audi that state and federal courts have made it repeatedly clear that UNLRELATED THIRD PARTY WORK, like an oil change, cannot legally be used as a basis to decide whether owners enjoy any protection or service from car makers.
Unless they are willing to state in writing that your timing chain failed because it was improperly lubricated, as a result of your third party service...then their answer has nothing to do with your problem, and I'd expect it would be time for an attorney's letter suggesting that a designated "lifetime" part should be considered expressly warranted for just that long. Their choice, step up and play nice, or let the courts remind them that this type of situation was decided long ago, all across the land.
Use the carrot once, then get out the stick.
Also, timing chains don't just "fail" while a car is parked. Not unless Chinese hackers were partying in your driveway overnight. There's something else wrong here, and perhaps the NHTSA should be notified of unexplained timing chain failures, which could cause unexpected engine failure and risk of accident.
It's a part. An unwarranted part. OK, fine. But their story and their response both make no sense, and that's inexcusable.
05-18-2016, 08:52 AM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
David-
I think I'd also try to call a couple of actual timing chain manufacturers in the US. One of the auto chains or Rockauto's web site should be able to give you some established brand names. Then, contact them and ask "Is there any way the main engine lube oil affects the timing chain?" and see what they have to say. Even if that chain dunks in the oil, I can't see it being critical. But, one more piece of ammunition to have on hand in case there's a sudden snow job, ergh, storm, while you're on the phone with AoA.(G)
And if the phone rep says for some reason they can't escalate your request? That's OK too, sometimes you have to remind them, again, state and federal law say that if a corporate employee tells you THEY are the final decision? Their name is the one that goes on the lawsuit, it becomes their very personal problem. Somehow, that often makes them reconsider putting someone else on the phone.(G)
Pinstripes, check. Cleats, check. Louisville Slugger? Check.
Hardball, the American pastime. Honest, that's all the bat is for.
I think I'd also try to call a couple of actual timing chain manufacturers in the US. One of the auto chains or Rockauto's web site should be able to give you some established brand names. Then, contact them and ask "Is there any way the main engine lube oil affects the timing chain?" and see what they have to say. Even if that chain dunks in the oil, I can't see it being critical. But, one more piece of ammunition to have on hand in case there's a sudden snow job, ergh, storm, while you're on the phone with AoA.(G)
And if the phone rep says for some reason they can't escalate your request? That's OK too, sometimes you have to remind them, again, state and federal law say that if a corporate employee tells you THEY are the final decision? Their name is the one that goes on the lawsuit, it becomes their very personal problem. Somehow, that often makes them reconsider putting someone else on the phone.(G)
Pinstripes, check. Cleats, check. Louisville Slugger? Check.
Hardball, the American pastime. Honest, that's all the bat is for.
05-18-2016, 11:02 AM
#20
The only problem with that is that it may be as expensive or more then just finding an indy shop and taking care of it. Audi knows it and they can afford lawyers.
