Secure locking load bed storage?
08-11-2015, 12:05 PM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Secure locking load bed storage?
Just wondering, if anyone has found a good way to either add a lock to the load bed storage (the flat thing that covers the spare tire and all) or an add-in bed storage tray that bolts in and locks down over the load floor?
Purpose being to be able to secure some small things, like laptops, so they can't be smash-n-grabbed or grabbed while the keyless entry is being spoofed.
Purpose being to be able to secure some small things, like laptops, so they can't be smash-n-grabbed or grabbed while the keyless entry is being spoofed.
08-11-2015, 06:52 PM
#2
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Just wondering, if anyone has found a good way to either add a lock to the load bed storage (the flat thing that covers the spare tire and all) or an add-in bed storage tray that bolts in and locks down over the load floor?
Purpose being to be able to secure some small things, like laptops, so they can't be smash-n-grabbed or grabbed while the keyless entry is being spoofed.
Purpose being to be able to secure some small things, like laptops, so they can't be smash-n-grabbed or grabbed while the keyless entry is being spoofed.
08-12-2015, 06:38 AM
#3
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Good idea, but if your SSN and identity information was on there...Would you say that I had properly protected it?
I had one discussion one day with someone who insisted I couldn't fax anything to them because the fax might not be secure. I said of course it is secure, there's a shredder attached right to it, anything that gets sent out is destroyed immediately on transmission.
Well, that made them happy. Go figure.
Locking things in the car (for short periods, like at a rest stop) used to be OK, but with the radio spoofing boxes making Audi's keyless entry worthless....No more. Although, I could tow a wood chipper along, with a big sign that says "GOOD STUFF TO STEAL< CLIMB IN HERE" ?
I had one discussion one day with someone who insisted I couldn't fax anything to them because the fax might not be secure. I said of course it is secure, there's a shredder attached right to it, anything that gets sent out is destroyed immediately on transmission.
Well, that made them happy. Go figure.
Locking things in the car (for short periods, like at a rest stop) used to be OK, but with the radio spoofing boxes making Audi's keyless entry worthless....No more. Although, I could tow a wood chipper along, with a big sign that says "GOOD STUFF TO STEAL< CLIMB IN HERE" ?
08-12-2015, 07:26 AM
#5
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Pete-
Apparently, when you pull on the door handle, the car begins sending out radio pulses that say "And who are you?" If your key fob hears that enquiry, it wakes up and says "I am the authorized user, here are my credentials. Open and bow!" and the car does so.
The problem is, some clever souls have made a little computer box which probably *records* the interrogation code from the car, and then re-broadcasts it (recorded or live, doesn't matter) at a much higher signal strength.
The car probably operates at 10-20milliwatts, the box could easily be 5 or 6 watts (6000 milliwatts) which would give it a one mile broadcast range.
Now the problem is, you're in your office, only a thousand feet away. Your key hears this big strong signal and replies, offering up your credentials. The clever box has good hearing, too, so it hears your key even when your car doesn't. And then it repeats your credentials to the car.
Sort of a "telephone" game, just passing on the information both ways.
But all that your car knows, is that it heard the right password, so it can open up now.
Voila, no security system, no lock, the car is open to anyone.
And Audi chooses to make no comment on remediation or disabling the keyless system until something can be found.
The boxes are supposed to sell for under $1000 on the street. They're apparently not common--yet. But they would require less brains and power than the average cell phone or $30 Chinese walkie-talkie, so they are pretty much guaranteed to proliferate.
I give some crook credit, for finding a very clever simple way to defeat the "rolling codes" that were supposed to make remotes secure again, twenty odd years ago.
People said it was urban myth, but there are some security videos floating around now that show "a guy" with "a box" wandering around and pilfering cars he's just opened, and the owners all swear they locked their car and had the only remotes for it.
The only kludge for now, is to keep your key fob in a faraday cage, so it can't be interrogated when you are not using it. A metal Band-Aid tin, an Altoids tin (a bit snug), or the mylar bag that toll transponders come with, will all do. Or a mylar liner in your trouser pocket.(G)
Apparently, when you pull on the door handle, the car begins sending out radio pulses that say "And who are you?" If your key fob hears that enquiry, it wakes up and says "I am the authorized user, here are my credentials. Open and bow!" and the car does so.
The problem is, some clever souls have made a little computer box which probably *records* the interrogation code from the car, and then re-broadcasts it (recorded or live, doesn't matter) at a much higher signal strength.
The car probably operates at 10-20milliwatts, the box could easily be 5 or 6 watts (6000 milliwatts) which would give it a one mile broadcast range.
Now the problem is, you're in your office, only a thousand feet away. Your key hears this big strong signal and replies, offering up your credentials. The clever box has good hearing, too, so it hears your key even when your car doesn't. And then it repeats your credentials to the car.
Sort of a "telephone" game, just passing on the information both ways.
But all that your car knows, is that it heard the right password, so it can open up now.
Voila, no security system, no lock, the car is open to anyone.
And Audi chooses to make no comment on remediation or disabling the keyless system until something can be found.
The boxes are supposed to sell for under $1000 on the street. They're apparently not common--yet. But they would require less brains and power than the average cell phone or $30 Chinese walkie-talkie, so they are pretty much guaranteed to proliferate.
I give some crook credit, for finding a very clever simple way to defeat the "rolling codes" that were supposed to make remotes secure again, twenty odd years ago.
People said it was urban myth, but there are some security videos floating around now that show "a guy" with "a box" wandering around and pilfering cars he's just opened, and the owners all swear they locked their car and had the only remotes for it.
The only kludge for now, is to keep your key fob in a faraday cage, so it can't be interrogated when you are not using it. A metal Band-Aid tin, an Altoids tin (a bit snug), or the mylar bag that toll transponders come with, will all do. Or a mylar liner in your trouser pocket.(G)
08-12-2015, 07:29 AM
#6
AudiWorld Senior Member
Good idea, but if your SSN and identity information was on there...Would you say that I had properly protected it?
I had one discussion one day with someone who insisted I couldn't fax anything to them because the fax might not be secure. I said of course it is secure, there's a shredder attached right to it, anything that gets sent out is destroyed immediately on transmission.
Well, that made them happy. Go figure.
Locking things in the car (for short periods, like at a rest stop) used to be OK, but with the radio spoofing boxes making Audi's keyless entry worthless....No more. Although, I could tow a wood chipper along, with a big sign that says "GOOD STUFF TO STEAL< CLIMB IN HERE" ?
I had one discussion one day with someone who insisted I couldn't fax anything to them because the fax might not be secure. I said of course it is secure, there's a shredder attached right to it, anything that gets sent out is destroyed immediately on transmission.
Well, that made them happy. Go figure.
Locking things in the car (for short periods, like at a rest stop) used to be OK, but with the radio spoofing boxes making Audi's keyless entry worthless....No more. Although, I could tow a wood chipper along, with a big sign that says "GOOD STUFF TO STEAL< CLIMB IN HERE" ?
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08-12-2015, 09:06 AM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Pete-
Apparently the spoofing box can only be used to open the car. However, once the car is open you have access to the OBD2 plug. And (drumroll) there's another box that can go in there and be used to start the car, supposedly.
So one box makes "smash and grab" much quieter, the other makes "gone in sixty seconds" much simpler. No more tow truck needed.
All security, GONE. Response from Audi? Dead silence.
One would think that if there's no single fuse for the keyless entry (apparently not, each door is on a fuse of its own) there should still be a point where a kill switch could be put into the harness, so a physical key would be needed for entry again, and perhaps still not needed for starting.
Bob-
Having had three attempted thefts or break-ins (including one smashed window) on public streets in daylight hours, and two actual thefts (from the street in daylight and also from a commercial garage) and seeing a guy just smash in a window and lean in to rip out a stereo from a dash...little things like that, and warnings from the people who operate rest stops NOT to leave anything electronic in sight...and some gas station videos showing smash and grabs...
Enough first and reliable second hand knowledge of these things, that I'd like a way to SECURE things.
On the past car, over the years, it got "upgraded" enough so that I got used to various mechanics tapping on the window glass, from inside, saying "Please Mister, let me out!" (G)
Don't plan to do anywhere near that much cu$tom work on the Audi though. Just a tweak for storage, and another tweak for that keyless insecurity system.
Apparently the spoofing box can only be used to open the car. However, once the car is open you have access to the OBD2 plug. And (drumroll) there's another box that can go in there and be used to start the car, supposedly.
So one box makes "smash and grab" much quieter, the other makes "gone in sixty seconds" much simpler. No more tow truck needed.
All security, GONE. Response from Audi? Dead silence.
One would think that if there's no single fuse for the keyless entry (apparently not, each door is on a fuse of its own) there should still be a point where a kill switch could be put into the harness, so a physical key would be needed for entry again, and perhaps still not needed for starting.
Bob-
Having had three attempted thefts or break-ins (including one smashed window) on public streets in daylight hours, and two actual thefts (from the street in daylight and also from a commercial garage) and seeing a guy just smash in a window and lean in to rip out a stereo from a dash...little things like that, and warnings from the people who operate rest stops NOT to leave anything electronic in sight...and some gas station videos showing smash and grabs...
Enough first and reliable second hand knowledge of these things, that I'd like a way to SECURE things.
On the past car, over the years, it got "upgraded" enough so that I got used to various mechanics tapping on the window glass, from inside, saying "Please Mister, let me out!" (G)
Don't plan to do anywhere near that much cu$tom work on the Audi though. Just a tweak for storage, and another tweak for that keyless insecurity system.
08-12-2015, 10:43 AM
#9
AudiWorld Member
The critical point is the signal from vehicle to your key fob. As Redd states a simple 'block' is a metal container. I use one made for credit cards, but any will do. It's a bit inconvenient but it works because it blocks the signal.
A device called 'Rolljam' is the latest trick I've read about. But to date, no matter what gadget a thief uses it's still about collecting the emitted code and using it at some future time.
Still, a thief can always break in by normal methods and then access OBD2 plug but they better be quick. I forget the various names but the locking metal bars that attach from steering wheel to brake are still a simple deterrent. What a world...
A device called 'Rolljam' is the latest trick I've read about. But to date, no matter what gadget a thief uses it's still about collecting the emitted code and using it at some future time.
Still, a thief can always break in by normal methods and then access OBD2 plug but they better be quick. I forget the various names but the locking metal bars that attach from steering wheel to brake are still a simple deterrent. What a world...
08-12-2015, 12:36 PM
#10
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Those metal locking bars are BELOVED by car thieves. THere's the famous one that goes on the steering wheel...and people don't realize that a simple slap hammer pulls out the cylinder, in order to prevent that you MUST position the bar so the cylinder faces the dashboard and can't be hit with a slaphammer. Also makes it impossible to see where you are putting your key. Or, they just use a hacksaw, cut the steering wheel and slip the bar off.
The ones for the pedals...same slap hammer trick, among others. And with any of them, the bar becomes a deadly missile in a crash or rollover. Not so great.
If the car makers (not just Audi) would stop lying about "Oh, there's no way to..." and simply use real security, these problems could go away. IIRC about five years ago there was an article in the NYTimes by someone who eventually obtained, and then used, the "master access procedure" to start his Honda without his key. (A very unlikely sequence of pressing buttons and pedals, which told the computer "yeah yeah, start anyway.)
I understand that on the German domestic models, you can buy a better security system which releases zyklon gas after unauthorized starting....
The ones for the pedals...same slap hammer trick, among others. And with any of them, the bar becomes a deadly missile in a crash or rollover. Not so great.
If the car makers (not just Audi) would stop lying about "Oh, there's no way to..." and simply use real security, these problems could go away. IIRC about five years ago there was an article in the NYTimes by someone who eventually obtained, and then used, the "master access procedure" to start his Honda without his key. (A very unlikely sequence of pressing buttons and pedals, which told the computer "yeah yeah, start anyway.)
I understand that on the German domestic models, you can buy a better security system which releases zyklon gas after unauthorized starting....