2013 S4 DSG Jerky
12-02-2012, 07:22 PM
#21
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Balt-DC Area
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Drive a BMW with the GM6 transmission and then drive an Audi. Mine will jerk from time to time, but nothing like the BMW. I sued and won against BWM for their POS tranny. They tried every trick in the book to discredit me and my claim. They were wrong and subsequently I was right along with a couple of thousand other BMW owners.
The moral is that the new drive by wire vehicles seem to have this more often than not. There is a delicate balance between hardware and software that needs to take place in order for the new AT's to shift properly for some reason. The main thing is that if it doesnt work right no amount of reflashing the ECU will fix it. They tried 13 times with my BMW. I suspect it is the fault of German engineering because their fault tolerance is so low and requires such a precise relationship between machine and computer that if one is slightly off only a complete replacement of tranny and ECU or car for that matter will resolve it.
Good luck. Remember that your car is valued at the day you reported this claim. So if they have to to a Trade assist or buyback it legally starts from the day you reported it. NOT when they decide to work a deal with you.
The moral is that the new drive by wire vehicles seem to have this more often than not. There is a delicate balance between hardware and software that needs to take place in order for the new AT's to shift properly for some reason. The main thing is that if it doesnt work right no amount of reflashing the ECU will fix it. They tried 13 times with my BMW. I suspect it is the fault of German engineering because their fault tolerance is so low and requires such a precise relationship between machine and computer that if one is slightly off only a complete replacement of tranny and ECU or car for that matter will resolve it.
Good luck. Remember that your car is valued at the day you reported this claim. So if they have to to a Trade assist or buyback it legally starts from the day you reported it. NOT when they decide to work a deal with you.
12-03-2012, 06:48 PM
#22
I see the engine rpm sometimes rev up in dynamic mode (to about 3k rpm) even when my foot was not on gas pedal. I can hear the sound of engine goes up then down. There is no jerky movement though. It appears to me as if the transmission shifted to neutral and stayed there for a short while, then down shift again. I do that sometimes too when I drive a manual car. In auto mode, everything is smooth and precise, though it lacks the excitement and instant response of dynamic mode. BTW, I am driving a 2013 DSG. 1k miles now.
12-04-2012, 03:50 AM
#23
AudiWorld Senior Member
That's not neutral, it's a perfectly matched downshift. In dynamic mode it's much more obvious but it will do it in comfort as well. If you have access to a VAG-COM, you can enable the gear display in all settings (D & S in addition to M) and then you'll see exactly what the transmission is doing.
12-04-2012, 07:24 AM
#24
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those with technical knowledge: how long does it physically take to do the "gear re-adaptation" programming on our transmissions. I was under the impression it took a few hours tops. Car has now been in 3 days.
12-04-2012, 10:24 AM
#25
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-15-2012, 07:07 PM
#26
AudiWorld Newcomer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have noticed that there has been more and more of these S-tronic related threads popping up on Audi-based forums lately. After 2 plus years of S-Tronic, I too have unfortunately, encountered the same problems that the OP has from time to time. Which I too agree that those situations can be potentially dangerous. If you search the other car forums, you will notice that this appears to be an inheritant issue with ALL Duel clutch based transmissions that includes the PDK, S-Tronics, SMG and others.
I too find it to be more of an issue when the engine is set to Comfort/D mode instead of Dynamic/S mode. My theory is that in D mode, the transmission is short shifting to better fuel economy. It tends to shift from 1st to 2nd around 1,500 rpm or so. As you approach a slow stop and go situation or a slow approach to an intersection with intention to accelerate quickly to merge, the system is not aware that it needs to stay in 1st gear as there are cars approaching and as you accelerated hard, it gets caught in between 1st and 2nd for that split second. When that occurs, the transmission goes into neutral to protect system and with you not moving in the oncoming traffic. The system will then select a gear once you lifted the throttle which is when the power surge occurs.
In Dynamic/S mode, the shifting tends to occur at higher rpms, around 2,500 to 3,000 rpms. This will eliminate the S-tronic system hunting for gears in the above mentioned situation and because it is more sensitive to throttle input, it is more likely to hold the gear longer. And needless to say, in Manual mode, the hunting for gears does not occur since the driver is controlling the trans.
IMO, the S-tronic system is a marvel but it is not anywhere close to perfect, because to simply put, it can not "see" the actual driving situation like its user/driver can. It is a good system 99% of the time but it is the 1% that can get you in serious trouble. As for me, I now have the engine set in Dynamic/S mode. I know that this will have an impact on my fuel economy, but I do find the S mode to be more intuitive than D mode since it is not "trying too hard" to save fuel constantly. I would prefer to drive the car in Manual mode but I find the wheel mounted paddles difficult to use for in-city driving when hand over hand turns occurs frequently. Had the flappy paddles be steering column mounted, it would be much better suited for every day use.
I too find it to be more of an issue when the engine is set to Comfort/D mode instead of Dynamic/S mode. My theory is that in D mode, the transmission is short shifting to better fuel economy. It tends to shift from 1st to 2nd around 1,500 rpm or so. As you approach a slow stop and go situation or a slow approach to an intersection with intention to accelerate quickly to merge, the system is not aware that it needs to stay in 1st gear as there are cars approaching and as you accelerated hard, it gets caught in between 1st and 2nd for that split second. When that occurs, the transmission goes into neutral to protect system and with you not moving in the oncoming traffic. The system will then select a gear once you lifted the throttle which is when the power surge occurs.
In Dynamic/S mode, the shifting tends to occur at higher rpms, around 2,500 to 3,000 rpms. This will eliminate the S-tronic system hunting for gears in the above mentioned situation and because it is more sensitive to throttle input, it is more likely to hold the gear longer. And needless to say, in Manual mode, the hunting for gears does not occur since the driver is controlling the trans.
IMO, the S-tronic system is a marvel but it is not anywhere close to perfect, because to simply put, it can not "see" the actual driving situation like its user/driver can. It is a good system 99% of the time but it is the 1% that can get you in serious trouble. As for me, I now have the engine set in Dynamic/S mode. I know that this will have an impact on my fuel economy, but I do find the S mode to be more intuitive than D mode since it is not "trying too hard" to save fuel constantly. I would prefer to drive the car in Manual mode but I find the wheel mounted paddles difficult to use for in-city driving when hand over hand turns occurs frequently. Had the flappy paddles be steering column mounted, it would be much better suited for every day use.
I do not own a S4 but a friend of mine is doing exactly what you are doing to his 2012 B8. I join this forum to see if I could find a solution to my friend's DSG issue.
I have very similar experience with my 10 GTR. All 09/10 GTR owners have the very same issue with their DCT/DSG. And that is why Nissan has been updating the TCM software (LC1, LC2, LC3, LC4, LC5)every year. The problem is an algorithmic mismatch between the throttle/brake position, vehicles speed, and clutch engagement point/pressure. It is also a balance between throttle response, driving comfort, and clutch wear. It takes Nissan more than 3 years to master the data collected and comes up with a wonderful LC4 TCM software. No more jerkiness and start up hesitation and the car creeps smoothly under stop n go traffic. LC4/LC5 TCM software makes the GTR a totally different car (in an awesome way)to drive. So I think the B8 DSG jerkiness issue can definitely be fixed by a TCM software patch.
The trick is to collect enough complaints to Audi and pressure them to take care of their customers. Most GTR owners are on the NAGTROC/GTR LIFE forum and the forum administrator do collect data/comments from the forum and forward them to Nissan officially. Perhaps that is what Audi owners should do.
Just my 2 cents.
03-09-2013, 06:42 PM
#27
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry it's been 3 months, but I wanted to check back in considering the replies to this post.
The dealer went through the steps with the exception that they did not touch the mechatronics. They had an unofficial test they used which is analogous to when you pull your car into the garage -- measures how much creep you get with the DSG. This "test" showed no unusual results.
Since this visit, I have not had the "slam" experience anymore. I do still have the need for awareness of the DSG (particularly at the stops), but no longer is my wife afraid to drive it and I understand how it works.
I don't know if this has anything to do with the reset or not.
I tend to agree with ZCD's argument that it was all mental and getting used to a machine doing the shifting for you vs. a 6 spd manual.
All is well now with this poster's '13.
thanks for all the feedback.
The dealer went through the steps with the exception that they did not touch the mechatronics. They had an unofficial test they used which is analogous to when you pull your car into the garage -- measures how much creep you get with the DSG. This "test" showed no unusual results.
Since this visit, I have not had the "slam" experience anymore. I do still have the need for awareness of the DSG (particularly at the stops), but no longer is my wife afraid to drive it and I understand how it works.
I don't know if this has anything to do with the reset or not.
I tend to agree with ZCD's argument that it was all mental and getting used to a machine doing the shifting for you vs. a 6 spd manual.
All is well now with this poster's '13.
thanks for all the feedback.
03-09-2013, 07:01 PM
#28
I have noticed that there has been more and more of these S-tronic related threads popping up on Audi-based forums lately. After 2 plus years of S-Tronic, I too have unfortunately, encountered the same problems that the OP has from time to time. Which I too agree that those situations can be potentially dangerous. If you search the other car forums, you will notice that this appears to be an inheritant issue with ALL Duel clutch based transmissions that includes the PDK, S-Tronics, SMG and others.
I too find it to be more of an issue when the engine is set to Comfort/D mode instead of Dynamic/S mode. My theory is that in D mode, the transmission is short shifting to better fuel economy. It tends to shift from 1st to 2nd around 1,500 rpm or so. As you approach a slow stop and go situation or a slow approach to an intersection with intention to accelerate quickly to merge, the system is not aware that it needs to stay in 1st gear as there are cars approaching and as you accelerated hard, it gets caught in between 1st and 2nd for that split second. When that occurs, the transmission goes into neutral to protect system and with you not moving in the oncoming traffic. The system will then select a gear once you lifted the throttle which is when the power surge occurs.
In Dynamic/S mode, the shifting tends to occur at higher rpms, around 2,500 to 3,000 rpms. This will eliminate the S-tronic system hunting for gears in the above mentioned situation and because it is more sensitive to throttle input, it is more likely to hold the gear longer. And needless to say, in Manual mode, the hunting for gears does not occur since the driver is controlling the trans.
IMO, the S-tronic system is a marvel but it is not anywhere close to perfect, because to simply put, it can not "see" the actual driving situation like its user/driver can. It is a good system 99% of the time but it is the 1% that can get you in serious trouble. As for me, I now have the engine set in Dynamic/S mode. I know that this will have an impact on my fuel economy, but I do find the S mode to be more intuitive than D mode since it is not "trying too hard" to save fuel constantly. I would prefer to drive the car in Manual mode but I find the wheel mounted paddles difficult to use for in-city driving when hand over hand turns occurs frequently. Had the flappy paddles be steering column mounted, it would be much better suited for every day use.
I too find it to be more of an issue when the engine is set to Comfort/D mode instead of Dynamic/S mode. My theory is that in D mode, the transmission is short shifting to better fuel economy. It tends to shift from 1st to 2nd around 1,500 rpm or so. As you approach a slow stop and go situation or a slow approach to an intersection with intention to accelerate quickly to merge, the system is not aware that it needs to stay in 1st gear as there are cars approaching and as you accelerated hard, it gets caught in between 1st and 2nd for that split second. When that occurs, the transmission goes into neutral to protect system and with you not moving in the oncoming traffic. The system will then select a gear once you lifted the throttle which is when the power surge occurs.
In Dynamic/S mode, the shifting tends to occur at higher rpms, around 2,500 to 3,000 rpms. This will eliminate the S-tronic system hunting for gears in the above mentioned situation and because it is more sensitive to throttle input, it is more likely to hold the gear longer. And needless to say, in Manual mode, the hunting for gears does not occur since the driver is controlling the trans.
IMO, the S-tronic system is a marvel but it is not anywhere close to perfect, because to simply put, it can not "see" the actual driving situation like its user/driver can. It is a good system 99% of the time but it is the 1% that can get you in serious trouble. As for me, I now have the engine set in Dynamic/S mode. I know that this will have an impact on my fuel economy, but I do find the S mode to be more intuitive than D mode since it is not "trying too hard" to save fuel constantly. I would prefer to drive the car in Manual mode but I find the wheel mounted paddles difficult to use for in-city driving when hand over hand turns occurs frequently. Had the flappy paddles be steering column mounted, it would be much better suited for every day use.
I have not heard nearly as many issues on the PDK BTW. But The BMW DCT is another ball of wax
03-09-2013, 07:02 PM
#29
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BTW, I had was over at Audi the other day for a different reason and I saw a couple S4's with the supercharge badge on them now, so I assume they are shipping with those now. interesting (or not).........
03-09-2013, 07:07 PM
#30
Sorry it's been 3 months, but I wanted to check back in considering the replies to this post.
The dealer went through the steps with the exception that they did not touch the mechatronics. They had an unofficial test they used which is analogous to when you pull your car into the garage -- measures how much creep you get with the DSG. This "test" showed no unusual results.
Since this visit, I have not had the "slam" experience anymore. I do still have the need for awareness of the DSG (particularly at the stops), but no longer is my wife afraid to drive it and I understand how it works.
I don't know if this has anything to do with the reset or not.
I tend to agree with ZCD's argument that it was all mental and getting used to a machine doing the shifting for you vs. a 6 spd manual.
All is well now with this poster's '13.
thanks for all the feedback.
The dealer went through the steps with the exception that they did not touch the mechatronics. They had an unofficial test they used which is analogous to when you pull your car into the garage -- measures how much creep you get with the DSG. This "test" showed no unusual results.
Since this visit, I have not had the "slam" experience anymore. I do still have the need for awareness of the DSG (particularly at the stops), but no longer is my wife afraid to drive it and I understand how it works.
I don't know if this has anything to do with the reset or not.
I tend to agree with ZCD's argument that it was all mental and getting used to a machine doing the shifting for you vs. a 6 spd manual.
All is well now with this poster's '13.
thanks for all the feedback.
give it some time (many months) before your conclusion, I was certain my issue was gone with a flash upate. I began to grow confident with the car, until it happened like 3 times in a week in fact. It was about 6-8 weeks after the flash update