platinumphoenix

Hi All,

This is my introductory post to what seems like a pretty active and quite knowledgeable forum.

I'm on the fence with a couple of other options but I think I'm finally going to make the jump to an Audi after the better part of a decade DDing Corvettes. I'm going to keep a track toy but I want something a little more practical for my daily needs. I have some experience with Quattro in nasty weather and was thoroughly impressed. It's also appealing to be getting 4 seats and a car I can have a phone conversation in without giving the caller on the other end of the line the impression that I'm standing on a jetway.

I'm considering a '14 or '15 S4 or S5 (leaning toward the S5) and have a few questions if you'll indulge me. I've done quite a bit of reading but haven't yet found satisfactory answers to all my questions.

1. I'm trying to decide between S-Tronic and manual transmissions. I've driven manuals forever and love the heightened experience but the dual clutch unit is compelling. I am aware of the differences in engagement, performance, fuel economy and driveability in traffic and, for my personal needs and preferences, consider them to be largely a irrelevant. My questions are in the areas of maintenance cost, longevity and reliability. I will consider an APR Stage 1 ECU remapping (more on that later) but will not mod my DD significantly beyond that. I have other choices when I want to go really fast . Does anyone have any insight as to how long the S-Tronic transmissions last between service and the cost associated with said service? Same question for the 6MT. I find myself firmly planted in the "spirited" driver category most days but won't beat on it often.

2. I've driven a friend's S4 on several occasions and enjoyed it, but you can only get just so much of an impression with a few test drives. I'm concerned the car will feel anemic to me given that I'm used to driving a much lighter car with much more power. Could anyone else who has made a similar switch give me your impressions? Not just with power but with real world (read spirited daily driving) cornering ability. I'm considering an APR Stage 1 ECU Remapping, can anyone comment as to how significant the difference is after having that done? After considerable research I'm given to understand that the APR tunes are pretty reliable and that they won't void manufacturers warranties. Does anyone have any experience to the contrary? I'm hesitant to go with the Stage 2 as it requires a non-OEM pulley (warranty concerns).

3. I cannot get a straight answer on this. How good is the Audi warranty? I'm looking to purchase a vehicle with under 20K miles in model year '14 or '15 so I should have plenty of warranty left. Is the stuff that's most likely to break going to be covered? I will probably keep this car for about 3 years at which point it will probably have ~75K miles on it. I'm on the fence as to whether a CPO vehicle is worth an additional premium to me. I've wrenched on all my previous cars and wouldn't hesitate to continue to do so (I'll get a German to English dictionary) but would prefer not to have to tackle any very large jobs if I don't have to.

4. What are your annual maintenance costs like? My biggest fear in switching to a German sled is that I'll have some dealer mechanic pull his head out of my wheel well to inform me that my blektirlichtenschlagenthingen has malfunctioned and will need to be ordered from Germany and that after waiting for the part for 3 weeks while I drive a loaner A3 1.8 around the beltway I'll return to the dealer and bend over in front of the cashier only to mistake the total an the bottom of my invoice for a phone number. Exaggerated obviously, but how bad is it really?

5. What will I not like about it?

Thanks in advance and I appreciate answers to any of my questions you have experience with!

DrGP

1) My feeling is that after the novelty of the DGS wear off, you will be sorry that you didn't get the 6MT. The 6MT trans is strong, but IMHO, the clutch is the weak link. There have been some issues with the DSG trans, but if you have a warranty, it will be covered. Plus the maintenance cost s on the DSG trans can be significant, especially the 45k maintenance. If you have AudiCare it will be covered. The clutch in the 6mt is not covered by factory or CPO warranty.

2) ANY tune WILL void the warranty. In fact, the first time you take the car in to Audi for service, the computer will search it out, report it to AOA and void the drivetrain warranty. The Dealer cannot circumvent this from happening. Car will be designated TD1. 2 ways to get around this. You can have the ECU flashed back to stock before service. OR instead of an APR or other tune that reprograms the ECU, you can purchase a Chipwerke plug and play tune module. You can remove it easily and quickly before service and re install after service. There have been some minor driveability issues with the Chipwerke and the DSG trans. Not so with the 6 MT. Not as sophisticated as an ECU tune. But IMHO, a safer way to go if you want to maintain your warranty.

3) Audi factory warranty will cover pretty much everything other than brakes, rotor, clutch, wiper blades. These cars have been remarkably reliable. Plastic Water pumps that all failed in the 2010/2011 cars have all been replaced with metal ones that are far more durable. Thermostat failure is not uncommon, but covered under factory warranty. There is an issue with the cars lacking a protective screen to cover the IC radiator. This can allow road debris to puncture the radiator and it is not USUALLY covered under warranty. $800+ for dealer repair. Im told they newer models nove have protection for this issue. My 2010/2011 and 2014 cars did not. After having the problem on my 2010, I fabricated a DIY protective screen and put it on my cars. Cheap and easy to do,

4) If you purchase Audi Care, there are no annual costs under warranty. Otherwise you will pay for oil changes, air filters, spark plugs, brakes, tires and wiper blades and routine 10K services. There is a big fee for the 45k DSG service covered under Audi Care.

5)The S4 is a a great car. IMHO, the best I have ever driven in over 50 yrs of driving. It is not a sports car like the Corvette. I'm on my 3rd because I can't find anything I like better in the price range including the new upcoming B9 S4. You don't have the feeling of speed even when the car is going like hell.Not the same torque as you have in a Corvette. The stock exhaust sound is not spectacular. In fact, on the 2013 and newer models, there is a feature called a Soundaktor, which artificially generates an exhaust sound in the cabin. It can be adjusted as far as sound level or turned off. A cat back exhaust is also a popular option along with the elimination of one of the 2 sets of resonators, and installing straight pipes with an x pipe.

Don't know if it matters, but the Sunroof in the S5 only tilts. It also opens on the S4. Basically the same car. Don't get a pre 2013 S5 coupe. It has the inferior 4,2 V8 engine .

BTW, you may want to check out the Audizine and QuattroWorld forums as well.

platinumphoenix

Thanks for your perspective, I learned a few things. Cheers!

I don't have any interest in the 4.2 cars, the charger motor will suit my needs significantly better. I'm afraid you may be correct in that I'll regret not purchasing a 6MT if I go the DSG route but my tendency is in that direction due to the sheer number of horror stories I've read pertaining to clutch issues. I'm starting to think the OEM clutches are under-speced for this platform though I cannot find anything even resembling official data as to what the 6MT is actually rated to hold. I may look into RR costs for the clutch just to see but if I'm going to continue to have the same issues after replacement running a moderate tune that's less appealing. These issues are easily resolved with a stouter clutch which is a game I've played many times with toy cars but it's a less appealing option for me on a DD given the complexities that can arise.

AForePlayin'03

I have a 2014 S4, ordered from the factory and received on March 1st, 2014. It's completely stock, other than a couple of 'show' mods. I also have Audicare, which is basically the 15k, 25k, 35k and 45k mile scheduled maintenance paid for all at once, and in advance. I can answer your questions based on my experience thus far. My previous car was a 2013 A4 with a 6 speed manual tranmission:

1. I'm trying to decide between S-Tronic and manual transmissions. I've driven manuals forever and love the heightened experience but the dual clutch unit is compelling. I am aware of the differences in engagement, performance, fuel economy and driveability in traffic and, for my personal needs and preferences, consider them to be largely a irrelevant. My questions are in the areas of maintenance cost, longevity and reliability. I will consider an APR Stage 1 ECU remapping (more on that later) but will not mod my DD significantly beyond that. I have other choices when I want to go really fast . Does anyone have any insight as to how long the S-Tronic transmissions last between service and the cost associated with said service? Same question for the 6MT. I find myself firmly planted in the "spirited" driver category most days but won't beat on it often.

- I too had the same dilemma, choosing between the DSG and 6-speed manual. I chose the DSG for a couple of reasons really. 1) I had been rowing grears for 11 years with the A4 and quite frankly, my left knee cracked with each shift (might not pertain to you), so it was a welcome change. 2) DSG shifts faster and smoother. 3) To me, it's both an automatic and manual transmission. It can be in auto and I can have both dynamic and a much peppier sport mode, OR I can put it in manual to upshift and downshift when I want to. I also love the li'l fart noise that goes along with the shifting while under heavier acceleration. To your maintenance cost question, my understanding is that the cost of the DSG service alone is around $800, but in my case, that service is covered under Audicare, which cost me just over that. It is also my understanding, based on the MY2014 maintenance schedule that the DSG is serviced at 35k, 75k and if we're lucky, 115k miles - https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/...-Year-2014.pdf. To longevity and reliability, I'm going on three years now and it's been rock solid. I can't comment on what could happen if you start adding tunes or chips, but I've read (over on the Audizine forum) that some issues could arise.

2. I've driven a friend's S4 on several occasions and enjoyed it, but you can only get just so much of an impression with a few test drives. I'm concerned the car will feel anemic to me given that I'm used to driving a much lighter car with much more power. Could anyone else who has made a similar switch give me your impressions? Not just with power but with real world (read spirited daily driving) cornering ability. I'm considering an APR Stage 1 ECU Remapping, can anyone comment as to how significant the difference is after having that done? After considerable research I'm given to understand that the APR tunes are pretty reliable and that they won't void manufacturers warranties. Does anyone have any experience to the contrary? I'm hesitant to go with the Stage 2 as it requires a non-OEM pulley (warranty concerns).

- I have no regrets about going with the DSG over manual. I mainly drive around in dynamic mode, but there are plenty of roads I drive on that I enjoy much better while in sport or manual and switching gears myself, and I enjoy that flexibility. I think the 'cornering ability' will be there, whether the transmission is automatic, manual or DSG. For me, that would be more related to tires, suspension and (lowering the) center of gravity. The car may be considered by some to be heavy, and some owners look to reduce weight, especially when considering new rims.
- I cannot comment on Stage 1 or 2, but you can get A LOT more information over at the Audizne forum.

3. I cannot get a straight answer on this. How good is the Audi warranty? I'm looking to purchase a vehicle with under 20K miles in model year '14 or '15 so I should have plenty of warranty left. Is the stuff that's most likely to break going to be covered? I will probably keep this car for about 3 years at which point it will probably have ~75K miles on it. I'm on the fence as to whether a CPO vehicle is worth an additional premium to me. I've wrenched on all my previous cars and wouldn't hesitate to continue to do so (I'll get a German to English dictionary) but would prefer not to have to tackle any very large jobs if I don't have to.

- The warranty is 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. You can also extend that, for a fee. Fortunately for me, I have not had any warranty claims, and the car has almost 19,000 miles. As DrGP eluded to, there have been a couple of bugs with the earlier model years (water pump and thermostat), but the MY2013+ have been very solid. I feel confident that the warranty covers what it claims it covers, assuming you remain within the 'envelope.' If you push it, you might find yourself fighting with the dealer and/or Audi of America (AoA) on whether something is covered. If you tune it and Audi detects that, any claims could be voided, especially on drive train components because Audi can claim that the tune caused the failure. There are way around that, as explained by DrGP. I feel that purchasing a car with a CPO warranty would give you piece of mind, but only you could decide that.

4. What are your annual maintenance costs like? My biggest fear in switching to a German sled is that I'll have some dealer mechanic pull his head out of my wheel well to inform me that my blektirlichtenschlagenthingen has malfunctioned and will need to be ordered from Germany and that after waiting for the part for 3 weeks while I drive a loaner A3 1.8 around the beltway I'll return to the dealer and bend over in front of the cashier only to mistake the total an the bottom of my invoice for a phone number. Exaggerated obviously, but how bad is it really?

- As far as maintenance costs go, I have none, as they are all covered under Audicare (sorry, that doesn't help you much.) I did just recently though, have the dealer perform an Annual Technical Inspection, in preparation for a track day (required by the club). That cost me $118, and at the same visit, they performed the 25k mile service, which did not include a tire rotation. The service technician determined that the tires needed to be rotated, which cost me $26. It's no secret however, that parts and labor costs are not cheap, but on the flip side, a lot of guys do their own oil service (and other scheduled maintenance), and there are plenty of places to get reasonable prices for parts, which it sounds like you are no stranger to, reading that you are fine with working on your cars.

5. What will I not like about it?

- I absolutely love mine, and I can't see myself driving anything else at the moment. It puts a smile on my face every time I get behind the wheel. If there was one thing though, I would say City fuel mileage. It isn't that bad at 17 to 19 miles, and ymmv. On the highway, I get about 27 mpg. Some owners might say that the interior needs to be updated, comparing it to the same model year cars of other imports (BMW/Porsche), but I'm very happy with it. Here is a fellow S4 owners perspective of things he doesn't like/hates about his:

platinumphoenix

AForePlayin'03, thank you for taking the time!

I think I've fairly well settled on a DSG at this point. I will miss the more visceral feel of a 6MT day to day but I'm likely to tune this car eventually as I need just a hair more punch than it comes with OEM and I've read enough about the factory clutch slipping with even moderate power increases to scare me away. I don't have any interest in creating driveability issues on a DD.

I'll look into Audi care but I typically pass on prepaid maintenance. I enjoy wrenching on my own cars when time allows, it also gives me the peace of mind of knowing the job was done correctly so dealer maintenance costs likely won't be a consideration for me. I've looked into parts cost for this platform and they don't appear to be too awful for an import. My interest in a warranty is protection against a major component going out.

Cheers!

VipinLJ

The DSG is one of the better auto boxes out there. It shifts fast and is also smooth. Only problems you might face will be in traffic where they can be jerky and also, there is an initial lag while moving away which is due to the transmission and not turbo lag (idk how it is on the S4 but my A4 and my Jetta back home in India have this problem). But it is something you can live with and a TCU map should help eliminate that.
I've driven a Z06 quite a bit, and while it is a very nice car, I think the S4 is a better all rounder. The 3.0 supercharged V6 is a gem and has a lot of potential too.
A remap will almost invariably end up in your car getting a TD1 flag which will void power train warranty. Even if you revert back to the stock map before you take the car in for a service, they can find out whether the ECU has been altered and flag your car. Be aware of that and weigh your options before finalizing.

QS4

Hey platinumpheonix, I wanted to add my two cents just in case there is another buyer/reader that is on the manual/auto fence!

I have always preferred manual transmissions for the control it gives compared to using throttle position et al... Audi's dual clutch in this S4 is the best automatic I've had the pleasure of "DDing". EVERY time I drive it, I am amazed because I cannot FEEL it shift - you can only HEAR it!! The DSG is super fast and I think it was AFP'03 above that mentioned the fart sound (Bart Simpson snicker) when it shifts. I use a quick pull back on the gear selector to engage Sport Mode*, the steering wheel paddles, and less often a push to the right for 'autostick' shifting when it's time for a little fun! I usually don't want to drive an automatic, but when I do, this is the one I want to drive!

*Okay so Audi made a little bit of a mistake with Sport Mode here. This transmission in Drive Mode is sport enough! Sport should actually be called Race Mode!! I can't drive this thing in sport, it's 2FN fast! I keep it in D, dip into S on demand, and back to D to return to my baseline heart rate! Keep it in Sport and it won't be long before flashing lights are in your rear view, "Where's the fire sir?"

platinumphoenix

Just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback. I picked up a '15 S5 with DSG and have been DDing it for a couple of days now. Initial impressions are quite good. Looking forward to testing it in some inclement weather this winter.

Cheers!

QS4

Have fun and enjoy platinumphoenx! I recommend dedicated winter tires to make inclement weather testing more enjoyable!

We love these cars, so I hope you return with a few more details beyond your initial impressions!