markcincinnati

I read a lot from different sources, and it appears the following is true:

A4's will be equipped with the 7-speed DSG

S4's will be equipped with the 8-speed tiptronic (tuned for the "S" application, one would assume, since a version of this transmission is used in the RS7)

Note, I said it "appears" that what I wrote is true based on sources (typically European Car magazines) with content on the web, in English.

First, do you read this as I do? The S4 will get the tip (which I am, I guess, good with, since my wife has an SQ5 with the 8-speed and it is good in that vehicle.)

Second, do you know why this would be done -- I mean, torque shouldn't be an issue since both the S6 and S7 use the DSG.

?

Thanks for the input and/or opinion and/or both.

Drive it like you live.

JD15

The current S4 uses a different DSG from the S6 and S7. It appears that the B8.5 DSG cannot handle the torque of the new 3.0L turbo and Audi did not deem it necessary to invest in developing a new DSG for the B9 S4. It is also possible that the S6/S7 DSG could not be used in the S4 due to packaging constraints.

plat27265

Wow! You've got one sick and catchy thread title. When I saw it, it caught my attention. It seems that you had your brain twisted in a knot when you wrote it :-D I could not understand your query and it compelled me to read your post. :-D

That's what I read as well. The B9 S4 will use a tiptronic tranny. No one knows why Audi decided against the S-tronic. But, I won't be surprised if it is a cost cutting measure. I am also guessing that it may have something to do with weight savings.

m444

The main point of DSG for Audi is efficiency, but the ZF 8HP has allegedly good efficiency.

ZF’s 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - Tech Dept. - Car and Driver

"ZF says the 8HP is six percent more *efficient than the outgoing sixer and nearly as efficient as a dual-clutch automated manual, which ZF also produces. However, the eight-speed is roughly 20 percent cheaper and retains the smooth, torque-converter starts to which U.S. buyers have become accustomed. Furthermore, the 8HP has a system to maintain hydraulic pressure even when the engine isn’t running and is therefore the first automatic that’s compatible with stop-start operation—good for 11 percent better fuel efficiency, says ZF. In the CAFE-conscious U.S. market, every percentage point is going to count."

ZF 8HP - Efficiency, low weight & torque capacity

Cars | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG

8-Speed Automatic Transmission (AT)...TQ=650 Nm ZF 8HP55A

A8, S8 -0BK 8-Speed Automatic Transmission (AT)...AL551-8Q....TQ=700 Nm (ZF 8HP55AF)
S4, S5-0B5 7-Speed Direct-Shift Gearbox (DSG)...... DL501..........TQ= 550 Nm

plat27265

Damn! That ZF 8HP tip tranny is a very versatile and, seems to be, a well-thought piece of equipment. They built it so customers can customize it according to whatever requirement they may have or need. It can even accommodate hybrid set-ups. It is more cost effective and efficient. Now I see why Audi went for the 8HP in the new S4.

JD15

I believe that the torque limit of the existing DSG is the most significant reason that the B9 S4 will launch without the DSG. If Audi preferred the ZF8 over DSG for all applications, why would it switch the high-volume A4 from ZF8 to DSG for the B9 platform?

plat27265

I believe it is for the simple reason of making the most return of investment (ROI) after investing so much in DSG R&D. It is an existing product that is already reliable and well-received. It does not make any business sense to kill it for any reason.

JD15

That's the point: Audi could not justify the R&D for creating a new DSG for the B9 S4. Apparently, the ZF8 was deemed "good enough".

markcincinnati

The 8-speed Tip in my wife's SQ5 is very close in feel to the 7-speed DSG in my S4, the upshifts delivered by the 7-speed, however, are just a tiny bit better; there is no hesitation, period, on a 1-2 2-3 4-5 6-7 upshift (at less than full throttle or full throttle).

The 8-speed has almost evolved to the point of smoothness, however, that it can, often, make you forget you're driving a Tip. One other thing I noticed, I have my DSG PERMANENTLY in "S" mode and I can drive the SQ5 in "D" and not feel the programming is striving for "early" upshifts, like some "D" programs deliver. The DSG in "D" mode seems a bit slower to react, thus my penchant for keeping the DSG in "S" mode.

I really don't have a problem with the new S4 coming with the 8-speed, and I mean that 99.5% of the time (at least I think that would be the % I would assign). From time to time, however, especially under WOT, the DSG makes me feel in my chest and my butt like it is delivering more of the power in every gear and that there is no instantaneous and very short "pause" during the upshift. The 8-speed, can feel under WOT like there is a nano-second decrease in forward momentum during the upshift, however.

Since neither of us tracks our cars and we don't drag our cars on public streets let alone on sanctioned drag strips, its all very likely much ado about nuttin'.

But, you know, we all like to talk and bitch about the weather, too.

arU4ic

If they do use the 8-trip, that's good news for those of us that want the 6-speed manual, might mean it will be on the menu, no?