2013 S6 with Oil In The Cylinder
03-16-2016, 02:01 PM
#22
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If this were me I would demand they replace the engine and get me on the road. They can ship the old engine to Germany and spend all the time they want figuring it out. If they do keep the old engine in the car I would be worried about how much of that excess oil has deposited itself on the tops of my valves.
03-16-2016, 03:39 PM
#23
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Repair has been authorized . . .
I spoke to my mechanic today and Audi has developed a repair plan for my motor and authorized them to proceed with the repair!
First, a bit of background to understand the basis for the repair . . .
Apparently there are 7 cars in North America with the same problem. They replaced the motor in one of them but the problem came back, thus they are reluctant to replace any more motors as that didn't seem to make a difference. In two of the motors they identified the piston rings on #8 cylinder were incorrectly installed - the split in the rings were all aligned rather than being staggered around the perimeter of the piston. This seems to explain why they had such a relentless focus on the piston and rings, despite no logical explanation for the symptoms. Audi claims no cars outside North America are experiencing this problem - hmmmm?
They are focusing on a check valve and screen in the oil system in the upper part of the engine. They believe the check valve is failing, allowing oil to flow backwards in the system, ultimately ending up in the cylinder and they think the screen is somehow causing the failure. I dont completely understand the problem or the repair but my mechanic does and he seems to think it is a legitimate course of action - he has been a straight shooter so far and I do trust him.
The repair plan involves replacing a long list of parts, including all eight pistons, the two turbos and the check valve/screen assembly. Parts will be ordered today and expected to take 2-3 weeks to arrive, followed by a week to rebuild the engine and then reinstall it. Estimated return date is mid April, 6 weeks in the shop (ugh).
What i dont understand is whether they believe this to be a defective part(s) or a defective design. They seem to be replacing all of the parts in kind so I am assuming they are banking on a defective part. If that was the case, you would think the new motor would have been successful. If it is a defective design, replacing parts without a new design isn't likely to fix any thing.
That brings me to my next concern - my warranty! They have a theory on the cause of the problem and are replacing parts in response to that theory - my car is the guinea pig for the repair while my warranty ticks away. I have 35,000 km left in my warranty and the problem took 65,000 km to show up so if I keep the car, i could be 30,000 km out of warranty when it resurfaces.
I did some rough math with shop rates and hours invested so far and estimated this at a $15k repair - my mechanic said it will be well north of that number.
I asked (again) about extending the warranty and my mechanic promised to explore that with the dealership and Audi. He suggested that the dealership/Audi offer CPO warranty on used cars which provide 3 years, 80,000 km of additional warranty - that sounds like a pretty reasonable solution. Cost for the dealer is normally $3,500 which is a drop in the bucket compared to what Audi has invested in this repair. I will continue to push for this.
I hope to have confirmation on the ETA for the parts and the timing for the repair next week - I will provide an update if anything changes.
First, a bit of background to understand the basis for the repair . . .
Apparently there are 7 cars in North America with the same problem. They replaced the motor in one of them but the problem came back, thus they are reluctant to replace any more motors as that didn't seem to make a difference. In two of the motors they identified the piston rings on #8 cylinder were incorrectly installed - the split in the rings were all aligned rather than being staggered around the perimeter of the piston. This seems to explain why they had such a relentless focus on the piston and rings, despite no logical explanation for the symptoms. Audi claims no cars outside North America are experiencing this problem - hmmmm?
They are focusing on a check valve and screen in the oil system in the upper part of the engine. They believe the check valve is failing, allowing oil to flow backwards in the system, ultimately ending up in the cylinder and they think the screen is somehow causing the failure. I dont completely understand the problem or the repair but my mechanic does and he seems to think it is a legitimate course of action - he has been a straight shooter so far and I do trust him.
The repair plan involves replacing a long list of parts, including all eight pistons, the two turbos and the check valve/screen assembly. Parts will be ordered today and expected to take 2-3 weeks to arrive, followed by a week to rebuild the engine and then reinstall it. Estimated return date is mid April, 6 weeks in the shop (ugh).
What i dont understand is whether they believe this to be a defective part(s) or a defective design. They seem to be replacing all of the parts in kind so I am assuming they are banking on a defective part. If that was the case, you would think the new motor would have been successful. If it is a defective design, replacing parts without a new design isn't likely to fix any thing.
That brings me to my next concern - my warranty! They have a theory on the cause of the problem and are replacing parts in response to that theory - my car is the guinea pig for the repair while my warranty ticks away. I have 35,000 km left in my warranty and the problem took 65,000 km to show up so if I keep the car, i could be 30,000 km out of warranty when it resurfaces.
I did some rough math with shop rates and hours invested so far and estimated this at a $15k repair - my mechanic said it will be well north of that number.
I asked (again) about extending the warranty and my mechanic promised to explore that with the dealership and Audi. He suggested that the dealership/Audi offer CPO warranty on used cars which provide 3 years, 80,000 km of additional warranty - that sounds like a pretty reasonable solution. Cost for the dealer is normally $3,500 which is a drop in the bucket compared to what Audi has invested in this repair. I will continue to push for this.
I hope to have confirmation on the ETA for the parts and the timing for the repair next week - I will provide an update if anything changes.
03-16-2016, 04:00 PM
#24
AudiWorld Senior Member
I feel for you and what your and your car are going through right now. Here's hoping for the best outcome to your car problem. I am very sure something like an extended warranty can be applied to your car especially given your current warranty situation.
03-16-2016, 05:53 PM
#26
AudiWorld Member
Audi needs to throw in the extended warranty, at least for the engine & transmission, IMO. If they don't, I would be inclined to dump the car after it's been repaired. That's just me. Sorry to hear about your troubles.
03-16-2016, 10:17 PM
#27
AudiWorld Senior Member
Sorry about your tribulations - I'll be following with great interest. Since you have a good relationship with your mechanic, would you mind asking him to take some pictures of the intake valves? I'm keen to see if there's any carbon build up on these new DI motors. Much appreciated.
03-17-2016, 01:55 AM
#28
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Sorry about your tribulations - I'll be following with great interest. Since you have a good relationship with your mechanic, would you mind asking him to take some pictures of the intake valves? I'm keen to see if there's any carbon build up on these new DI motors. Much appreciated.
03-17-2016, 03:03 AM
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Just realized that they indicated they were taking a head off as part of the diagnosis - need to confirm that was done. If so will try to get that intake valve picture . . .
03-23-2016, 02:47 PM
#30
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Some good news . . . I think
I stopped at the dealer on the way home tonight and the majority of the new parts have arrived - just waiting for 7 more pistons which he hopes will be in early next week. They will then be ready to start putting it back together.
They confirmed that the screen and check valve which they believe to be the source of the problem are new part numbers which he says indicates a revised design and hopefully will solve the problem. Even the pistons are a new part number. That makes me feel a little better that they are putting an upgraded part in rather than replacing in kind and hoping for a different results.
No word yet on an extended warranty but they assure me they are pursuing it.
Deerhunter, i asked about the intake valves and the impact of the direct injection. He said the head is off but they did not separate the intake manifold so at this point in time there is no opportunity to inspect the intake runners/valves. He said he will let me know if he notices anything during reassembly.
With a little luck all parts will be in next week and they will start putting it back together again.
I will keep you posted.
They confirmed that the screen and check valve which they believe to be the source of the problem are new part numbers which he says indicates a revised design and hopefully will solve the problem. Even the pistons are a new part number. That makes me feel a little better that they are putting an upgraded part in rather than replacing in kind and hoping for a different results.
No word yet on an extended warranty but they assure me they are pursuing it.
Deerhunter, i asked about the intake valves and the impact of the direct injection. He said the head is off but they did not separate the intake manifold so at this point in time there is no opportunity to inspect the intake runners/valves. He said he will let me know if he notices anything during reassembly.
With a little luck all parts will be in next week and they will start putting it back together again.
I will keep you posted.