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APR Tune

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #1
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Default APR Tune

I find it interesting that APR advertises on the Audi Club North America forums yet Audi won't necessarily honor warranty claims on tuned cars if the tune caused the issue.

http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthr...-4.0-TFSI-ECUs!
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:52 AM   #2
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While ACNA may have a partnership with Audi of America (i.e. the ACNA new car discount), they are an independently owned organization. Fourtitude is also independently owned (not by ACNA or Audi) and and uses sponsors and partnerships just like AudiWorld and other auto web forums.
In any case, my understanding is some ECU vendors (i.e. Stasis) offer their own warranty to cover problems caused by their products that Audi won't cover under the factory warranty. Also note that the Audi factory warranty is not voided by any mods made other than if Audi can show that a problem was caused by the mod itself.

Edit: changed "..most, if not all ECU vendors.." to "some ECU vendors (i.e. Statsis).
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by snagitseven View Post
While ACNA may have a partnership with Audi of America (i.e. the ACNA new car discount), they are an independently owned organization. Fourtitude is also independently owned (not by ACNA or Audi) and and uses sponsors and partnerships just like AudiWorld and other auto web forums.
In any case, my understanding is most, if not all, ECU vendors offer their own warranty to cover problems caused by their products that Audi won't cover under the factory warranty. Also note that the Audi factory warranty is not voided by any mods made other than if Audi can show that a problem was caused by the mod itself.
There is no warranty by APR against any problems with your car. The only thing covered is problems with their software. There are also a growing number of cases where Audi will tag anything they can with TD1. I think we will see a lot more kick back from them in the future related to mods and warranty. There are a growing number of cases where Audi has voided a warranty due to a tune and didn't try to prove anything.

This is not to say that an APR tune will cause any problems because I seriously doubt that they would, but problems can occur with any car, and if you happen to have a tune then it could cause problems.
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:07 PM   #4
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snagitsteven... thanks for clarifying the relationship of all these entities. I didn't realize they were that independent. One could easily assume they were more intertwined.
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:21 PM   #5
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There is no warranty by APR against any problems with your car. The only thing covered is problems with their software. There are also a growing number of cases where Audi will tag anything they can with TD1. I think we will see a lot more kick back from them in the future related to mods and warranty. There are a growing number of cases where Audi has voided a warranty due to a tune and didn't try to prove anything.

This is not to say that an APR tune will cause any problems because I seriously doubt that they would, but problems can occur with any car, and if you happen to have a tune then it could cause problems.
Back when I had my first Audi, a 1.8T A4, I had it tuned (APR), and I never had or heard of issues. When I migrated to my first S4, Audi started to crack down and I'd hear a lot of horror stories about blown turbos on tuned cars (not necessarily cause and effect) with Audi denying warranty claims. This kept me from ever tuning my prior S4's. I have the prior model S6 which is n.a. so tuning was never really a temptation but with the new S6 it is so tempting for me. But I am hesitant to do it.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:21 PM   #6
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I'm in the same boat. I really want to do the tune, but I don't want to get flagged TD1 or risk an expensive engine related repair being out-of-warranty.

Perhaps when I get closer to the end of the factory warranty I will reconsider.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #7
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When I migrated to my first S4, Audi started to crack down and I'd hear a lot of horror stories about blown turbos on tuned cars (not necessarily cause and effect) with Audi denying warranty claims.
I had the passenger-side turbo go on my B5 S4 (2011). It was replaced under warranty, but back then I had the ability to swap from the stock ECU to the AMS/ABT ECU (and vice versa) quite easily. My Audi dealer knew I was tuned, and they didn't care as long as I brought the car back with the stock ECU if any warranty work came up. Then again, the dealership didn't complete the turbo replacement correctly. I had power steering fluid dump all over my driveway one night and then I had a "creaking" noise from the front suspension that they couldn't figure out how to fix. I quickly unloaded the car after being without it for 2.5 months.

In the interim I've owned several tuned/upgraded turbo Subarus without any major issues. I've had my B8 S4 APR tuned for the past 3 years, and I'll likely have the S6 tuned by APR after a few thousand miles (to make sure there are no initial issues).

I also have all my maintenance work performed at a local independent shop (owned by a certified Audi tech), so I'm not overly concerned with "TD1." ECU tuning is a risk, but I just can't drive a stock car.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:41 PM   #8
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Could an APR tuned ECU be swapped with a stock ECU when going in for service? Or would Audi be wise to that?
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:58 PM   #9
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Could an APR tuned ECU be swapped with a stock ECU when going in for service? Or would Audi be wise to that?
From what I understand, it doesn't work that way with the newer model years. The ECU is tied to the keys, so you would essentially need to go back to the Audi dealership to re-code the keys to the ECU each time you swap (and the dealer would figure out why).
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by snagitseven View Post
In any case, my understanding is most, if not all, ECU vendors offer their own warranty to cover problems caused by their products that Audi won't cover under the factory warranty. Also note that the Audi factory warranty is not voided by any mods made other than if Audi can show that a problem was caused by the mod itself.
Unfortunately, Audi is in the same position with the buyer that the IRS is with the taxpayer. If Audi says the problem is not covered by warranty, they don't have to prove anything. The buyer has to prove (by lawsuit, most likely) that the problem was not caused by the tune.

While ECU vendors warranty their products, I have heard of none except Stasis (questionable relationship with Audi presently according to rumor) and Dinan (for BMW) that will cover consequential damage to something else on the car.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:57 PM   #11
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From what I understand, it doesn't work that way with the newer model years. The ECU is tied to the keys, so you would essentially need to go back to the Audi dealership to re-code the keys to the ECU each time you swap (and the dealer would figure out why).
less to do with keys more to do that your dsg is coded to your engine and visa versa. Plus audi will only code one ecu at a time so you can't have an extra one, well you can have an extra one but it will just be an expensive paper weight on your desk.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:19 AM   #12
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Could an APR tuned ECU be swapped with a stock ECU when going in for service? Or would Audi be wise to that?
Unfortunately as other have said it isn't a good idea to even attempt this. Flashing back to stock each time is the only reasonable option but if they can't ever flash through the OBDII port then it could get tedious really quick.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:14 AM   #13
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Unfortunately, Audi is in the same position with the buyer that the IRS is with the taxpayer. If Audi says the problem is not covered by warranty, they don't have to prove anything. The buyer has to prove (by lawsuit, most likely) that the problem was not caused by the tune.
That's not technically true. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act actually puts the burden of proof on the warrantor to prove that a modification caused the defect.

In practice, you're right, there have been instances of dealers denying warranty claims due to modifications, sometimes with tenuous (at best) associations between the modification and the defect. These dealers are then in violation of the Act, at which time the only likely outlet for the consumer is litigation. But said litigation would have a high probability of being concluded in the consumer's favor.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:34 AM   #14
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Default APR responses to S6/S7 Concerns

These responses were posted on another forum. Not sure if this helps or confuses the situation even more. At the end of the day, I have always told the Shop Manger/Service Director that my car is tuned since the upfront honest approach is always the best approach.


If you retune the ECU to stock, all traces our software was on there are removed.

We will only ever flash you with the same same box code and revision as you had before.

So to clarify, the file flashed back to your ECU at an APR dealer is the same file you had before.


The dealer's software basically just sends out a message to the ECU and looks for an answer in response. If the answer is wrong, it gets flagged. Since it's back to stock, that doesn't happen. People across all the platforms have confirmed this to be true.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:17 AM   #15
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waiting on the coding for the A8L version of the 4.0 L turbo....

92 miles north of me....short drive .

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Old 09-09-2013, 06:17 AM
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