First S6 or stay with BMW? S6 owners please chime in.
12-08-2016, 06:41 PM
#21
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I'd need to check 2017 pricing just to be sure there were not any major changes.
First of all it so important to mention the two major other areas that will affect someone's final price. Those other two area's being: 1.) Do you have a trade? 2.) Do you intend on financing with the dealership? There's no way to really "certify" someone's claim on what price they got with out those specifics.
I can say invoice seems to be about 6.9% below MSRP, and most dealers will sell a car at invoice price. If you have a trade and intend on financing with the dealership you'll find that there's a little more room to negotiate.
First of all it so important to mention the two major other areas that will affect someone's final price. Those other two area's being: 1.) Do you have a trade? 2.) Do you intend on financing with the dealership? There's no way to really "certify" someone's claim on what price they got with out those specifics.
I can say invoice seems to be about 6.9% below MSRP, and most dealers will sell a car at invoice price. If you have a trade and intend on financing with the dealership you'll find that there's a little more room to negotiate.
1. I did have a trade and got slightly more for it than from other dealerships (I shopped around).
2. Agreed upon the price before financing, etc. I always negotiate over email and come in only after agreeing on the price. I emailed all 7 dealerships within 30 miles and played them against each other, everyone was trying to make a deal then and Audi had 3k in summer rebates so I guess my timing was good. If you don't mind being patient or getting latest and greatest you'll obviously will get a better price.
12-09-2016, 07:06 AM
#22
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Right, for OPs sake:
1. I did have a trade and got slightly more for it than from other dealerships (I shopped around).
2. Agreed upon the price before financing, etc. I always negotiate over email and come in only after agreeing on the price. I emailed all 7 dealerships within 30 miles and played them against each other, everyone was trying to make a deal then and Audi had 3k in summer rebates so I guess my timing was good. If you don't mind being patient or getting latest and greatest you'll obviously will get a better price.
1. I did have a trade and got slightly more for it than from other dealerships (I shopped around).
2. Agreed upon the price before financing, etc. I always negotiate over email and come in only after agreeing on the price. I emailed all 7 dealerships within 30 miles and played them against each other, everyone was trying to make a deal then and Audi had 3k in summer rebates so I guess my timing was good. If you don't mind being patient or getting latest and greatest you'll obviously will get a better price.
As for the $3k in summer rebates, if those were not offered, sounds like you would have been more like 1.5% above invoice if I am reading that correctly? Just trying to get order of magnitude on the numbers.
I like many others have stated also think dealers need to make a profit so I don't mind a sales person making $1,000 and a dealership making $1,000 but just want to know who I am paying and how much when ALL the factors are fully disclosed.
12-09-2016, 08:56 AM
#23
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This is helpful context, thank you guys. If they are short changing you on a trade in (not saying they did) of course they can give you more off the new car on an MSRP basis as its all just cash and a deal to them at end of the day.
As for the $3k in summer rebates, if those were not offered, sounds like you would have been more like 1.5% above invoice if I am reading that correctly? Just trying to get order of magnitude on the numbers.
I like many others have stated also think dealers need to make a profit so I don't mind a sales person making $1,000 and a dealership making $1,000 but just want to know who I am paying and how much when ALL the factors are fully disclosed.
As for the $3k in summer rebates, if those were not offered, sounds like you would have been more like 1.5% above invoice if I am reading that correctly? Just trying to get order of magnitude on the numbers.
I like many others have stated also think dealers need to make a profit so I don't mind a sales person making $1,000 and a dealership making $1,000 but just want to know who I am paying and how much when ALL the factors are fully disclosed.
I'd say there are even more factors that go in the deal and how low the stealership is willing to go. They may take a hit on a car that's been on the lot for a while, or they are about to hit their target or the OEM has a dealer specific rebate we don't even know about to push certain models (wouldn't surprise me with dieselgate/decline in car sales vs SUVs). In my case it also helped the 17's just arrived on the lots that week.
All things said said I can't wait for the day the dealership is just a place to do test drives and perform service. Prices are fixed and everyone pays the same, how much time is wasted playing this game is beyond me...
12-09-2016, 09:10 AM
#24
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This is helpful context, thank you guys. If they are short changing you on a trade in (not saying they did) of course they can give you more off the new car on an MSRP basis as its all just cash and a deal to them at end of the day.
As for the $3k in summer rebates, if those were not offered, sounds like you would have been more like 1.5% above invoice if I am reading that correctly? Just trying to get order of magnitude on the numbers.
I like many others have stated also think dealers need to make a profit so I don't mind a sales person making $1,000 and a dealership making $1,000 but just want to know who I am paying and how much when ALL the factors are fully disclosed.
As for the $3k in summer rebates, if those were not offered, sounds like you would have been more like 1.5% above invoice if I am reading that correctly? Just trying to get order of magnitude on the numbers.
I like many others have stated also think dealers need to make a profit so I don't mind a sales person making $1,000 and a dealership making $1,000 but just want to know who I am paying and how much when ALL the factors are fully disclosed.
You'll never truly know what the dealership & salesman are making/keeping as operating income, there's too much to know and calculate and a lot has to do with end-of-monthly & end-of-quarterly performance.
Also I'd like to add, your final price, and your price negotiations should COMPLETELY ignore any known rebates. Rebates have absolutely nothing to do with your negotiated selling price, and only confuses conversations on the forums like this.
12-17-2016, 06:49 AM
#25
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Unrelated but related...
There is a private equity investment that focuses on auto dealerships. While completing due diligence on that investment it amazed me on the actual revenue generated by new car sales. Long story short, dealerships make very little revenue of the purchasers of new vehicles. They make a lot of money from manufacturer incentives, a lot of money in service/parts, some money from financing, and some money from used car sales. Pretty much in that order. New car sales themselves (not including manufacturer money, financing, and add-on's) generate the lease amount of revenue to the dealership.
While negotiating the price of my S6 the salesperson asked how much money I thought the dealership should make off me. I explained how they were going to make a lot of money off of me for the next several years, but it isn't going to come from the sale price. We ended up below invoice not including rebates.
Related.
I took deliver of the S6 yesterday. The car is amazing. My wife rode in it and asked, "what is so special about this car?". Since that ride she has run out three times for different errands, each time she took the S6 and left the Q7 in the driveway. I could not be happier with the car.
There is a private equity investment that focuses on auto dealerships. While completing due diligence on that investment it amazed me on the actual revenue generated by new car sales. Long story short, dealerships make very little revenue of the purchasers of new vehicles. They make a lot of money from manufacturer incentives, a lot of money in service/parts, some money from financing, and some money from used car sales. Pretty much in that order. New car sales themselves (not including manufacturer money, financing, and add-on's) generate the lease amount of revenue to the dealership.
While negotiating the price of my S6 the salesperson asked how much money I thought the dealership should make off me. I explained how they were going to make a lot of money off of me for the next several years, but it isn't going to come from the sale price. We ended up below invoice not including rebates.
Related.
I took deliver of the S6 yesterday. The car is amazing. My wife rode in it and asked, "what is so special about this car?". Since that ride she has run out three times for different errands, each time she took the S6 and left the Q7 in the driveway. I could not be happier with the car.
12-17-2016, 08:31 AM
#26
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I took deliver of the S6 yesterday. The car is amazing. My wife rode in it and asked, "what is so special about this car?". Since that ride she has run out three times for different errands, each time she took the S6 and left the Q7 in the driveway. I could not be happier with the car.
Related: My wife LOVES her Q5 TDi , and tells me she's not a huge fan of my car, but whenever I'm out of town, my daughter reports that she drives the S6 regularly, especially if they're going out to dinner somewhere nice. She says it's a good "Saturday night car"
I couldn't agree more!
12-18-2016, 05:40 AM
#27
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Congrats!! Pricing is always a major consideration. Have been a huge BMW driver and still is, However, I just love the exterior lines of Audis and the interior of my Audi is unbeatable. Almost 4 years later, I am still pleased with the performance of my S6 ride.
12-19-2016, 07:39 AM
#28
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Unrelated but related...
There is a private equity investment that focuses on auto dealerships. While completing due diligence on that investment it amazed me on the actual revenue generated by new car sales. Long story short, dealerships make very little revenue of the purchasers of new vehicles. They make a lot of money from manufacturer incentives, a lot of money in service/parts, some money from financing, and some money from used car sales. Pretty much in that order. New car sales themselves (not including manufacturer money, financing, and add-on's) generate the lease amount of revenue to the dealership.
While negotiating the price of my S6 the salesperson asked how much money I thought the dealership should make off me. I explained how they were going to make a lot of money off of me for the next several years, but it isn't going to come from the sale price. We ended up below invoice not including rebates.
Related.
I took deliver of the S6 yesterday. The car is amazing. My wife rode in it and asked, "what is so special about this car?". Since that ride she has run out three times for different errands, each time she took the S6 and left the Q7 in the driveway. I could not be happier with the car.
There is a private equity investment that focuses on auto dealerships. While completing due diligence on that investment it amazed me on the actual revenue generated by new car sales. Long story short, dealerships make very little revenue of the purchasers of new vehicles. They make a lot of money from manufacturer incentives, a lot of money in service/parts, some money from financing, and some money from used car sales. Pretty much in that order. New car sales themselves (not including manufacturer money, financing, and add-on's) generate the lease amount of revenue to the dealership.
While negotiating the price of my S6 the salesperson asked how much money I thought the dealership should make off me. I explained how they were going to make a lot of money off of me for the next several years, but it isn't going to come from the sale price. We ended up below invoice not including rebates.
Related.
I took deliver of the S6 yesterday. The car is amazing. My wife rode in it and asked, "what is so special about this car?". Since that ride she has run out three times for different errands, each time she took the S6 and left the Q7 in the driveway. I could not be happier with the car.
While I tend to agree this is generally the way the different profit centers in a dealership shakes out, I also say I'm not so sure that dealers don't make quite a bit on a new car sale as you might suggest. It seems that due to the online nature of research with pricing that a lot of dealers now have "static factory to dealer incentives". In general though I'd like to point out that it's just a "numbers-game" and that overall a dealership looks at a single car sale as a "Deal" (Car, Trade, & Finance(including products)) and those "deals" are broken down to one profit number. The numbers just get all shifted around, and while you make a point that actual car sales don't really generate that much income, it's not really how you'd calculate the actual "deals" net income. (ignoring the other major factors)
Also I'd like to add, I actually think that dealers make a good amount on over invoice prices on a lot of deals (I'd estimate 45%) They just like to over exaggerate, and overly proclaim that "we don't make that much money on new cars" as a counter intelligence maneuver.
12-28-2016, 09:50 PM
#29
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As a long time BMW fan, owning an M5 was a dream come true. I recently sold my 2014 M5 Competition Pkg and just purchased a 2017 S6. I realize the S6 has < 125 bhp, but it is a lot of fun to drive. I am loving the Audi S6.
The M cars, especially the M5/M6 need something like Quattro. Any car with ~600bhp with > 500 lb/ft of torque is insane. I believe the BMW M division finally realizes this as I hear there will be changes to the 2018 M5/M6 to include some form of all-wheel drive.
12-29-2016, 04:36 PM
#30
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Interested in your thoughts after driving the S6 a bit more and having some more seat time to compare to the M5. I was convinced I was getting an M5 until I drove one and while I really loved the car I felt it was a bit heavy and if it feels heavy may as well have the additional versatility of the S6 w AWD and much better tech inside. Also love the seats and flat bottom steering wheel. I pick up our 2017 S6 sports pack on Tuesday so I am excited. Ordering the AWE touring and APR stage I before I even get the car! All amazing choices.
