MikeS6

Yea I work all 3 ends of the deal, The dealership has got to make money somewhere, and I find the best place to "cave" is the financing. I'm usually had about the trade price because I take care of my vehicles and they can't pick it apart at all, So I ask for over Kelly Blue book trade in value only by about $500-1000 (they won't go super high over ofc) and I always try to get a touch under invoice. I tell them the whole time I'm financing with them, as long as the rate is decent, I take the % rate they offer, that's negotiable as well, it's just a little tougher, and it has very little impact on the over all transaction. I also feel that I need to throw them some money somewhere, and that's a good place to do it. Truthfully I make there first few payments: 2 or 3 months, and refinance at a lower rate at another bank.

A6er

Depending on the state, the tax advantage of leasing is huge. I rotate our cars every 2-3 years, and I always lease (except for the CJ5). Ballpark, our average car cost (post discount) is, say, $55k. If I bought the car, that's $4400 upfront tax. If I lease and drive the car for, say, 40% of depreciation, at a low money factor that equates to paying about $2700 in tax on the stream of payments. That's $1700 in tax savings right there if I get out of the lease at ~ month 30.

People are so afraid of leasing it is insane. I'm a CPA, a huge gearhead, and have leased countless cars. But, I'm human with my own opinions, take them for what they're worth ( a grain of salt or otherwise) but the following is my advice on leasing:

- Always negotiate on price, of course!
- Try to lease cars that hold their value, then trade in (not "turn in") if you're over mileage, sell private party (same as selling a car you have a loan on - it is NO different), or take it to CarMax (worst case scenario). I've had good luck with leasing Audi's and have always sold myself or traded in for higher than the lease payoff.
- The cheaper the car is, the more material the variance between a finance & lease payment. The S6, at $80k, is not going to be much cheaper on a lease as you're financing $35k + on a forced 36 mo. term. For a $30k car it is a much different scenario.
- Always find out what the money factor is (in i.e. .00036 form), multiply it by 2400, and there's your effective interest rate in decimal form. The residual % is inconsequential unless you're a payment shopper or are going to hand the keys back at end of term.

There are a few lessors/banks to be aware of:

Ford "Red Carpet" lease - you cannot buy out of these. Who wants a Ford anyways (unless it's a high powered 'Stang).
Ally Bank (typically associated with Chrysler) will charge a $2500 fee or inflate the payoff for a dealer vs. the direct lessee.

MikeS6

I've leased and financed many vehicles over the years since I was 18 years old. I feel after buying cars every 3 years, that I find I like the control and freedom that the finance gives you, and I feel if you do that math out, it's almost the same.(it just comes done to back end or front end cash)


I'm not sure about a 2 year lease as all vehicles drop a lot in value in those first 2 years and as you finish the 3rd year it balances out and cash down on the vehicle is still there as "equity" right at that 3-year mark. I like the fact that I have complete control to buy a new car at 30 months, or hold on to it for 4 or 5 years. I get no dealership calls asking what my plans are at lease end, It's just simply my car. I can tint my Windows. I can tune the car, I can put a revelco in the car, without worry. (I've modified leased cars before with out any issues, but technically you can't) There is only standard risks to you in a buy. If you go over miles on a lease, they charge you an inflated retail amount, not a reasonable mileage rate. Sometimes inspectors will add some charges in for debatable wear and tear (these charges are negotiable, but most just pay full asking). If you want to switch brands you pay the $400 Disposition fee. You pay a $800 Acquisition fee, that is basically an additional Doc fee & Finance reserve that the dealership and the bank split as additional profit.


As far as tax savings go, it pretty much evens out as well. If you average out the fact that I bought a car that I could deduct my trade amount off of. With the S6 your looking at about $40 of taxes per payment in a lease. After 3 years that's $1440, and that's a little less than half of what I paid as a finance.


As far as "Trade in" your vehicle opposed to "turn in"; it's very difficult to maintain a positive equity in an automotive trade-in value. And if theres a huge gap it's better to "turn in" the vehicle to the lease company, let them assume the negative equity at that point in the transaction. If for some very unusual reason you have positive equity in a leased vehicle, then yes "Trade it" (which means you buy it, and immediately sell it).


I just never liked leasing, it's like a freedom thing, which I hate that it is like an ego thing, but it's just so much more satisfying that I decide how all the transactions in relation to my car go down. Now one cares more about my car than me. And Financially I am convinced it is so close in cost in a big picture since, it's not some sort of huge savings thing.

MikeS6

I woke up and re-read my rant... lol
I wanted to add, There are several calculators out there, where you can enter all the specifics of a deal, and see what the cost is both lease and buy. So anyone out there working on a deal right now for a car plug in all the numbers... and you will see that the over all cost after all payments is with in a range of $1500 - $1000. (All payments made to the finial institutions, all taxes and fees, etc. PAID)
But if you stray from the rules of a lease you will be bound by contract to pay damages:


-"Mileage"; what happens if you life changes and you end up putting more miles on the vehicle, you get charged inflated retail mileage. Devils advocate: If you put less you don't get money back, and it's very difficult to transform those miles undriven into cash value, and if you do transfer it into trade value, etc. it's very little you would net.


-"Excessive wear & tear" I will admit even though a lot of like lease-haters try to say watch out the dealer will twist this in their favor, I've never seen or experienced this. I think most of the brands are pretty reasonable on this. However the fact remains if you damage the car, scratch the paint, return the car without maintenance performed. The inspection process will generate charges and bill you for them.


-"Disposition Fee" If at lease end you decide you want a BMW now instead of an Audi. The brand will definitely charge you a disposition fee (you will get a bill in the mail) you may be very loyal to a brand, but it's nice to switch it up at times, and it's like one of those strings that are attached at a cost to the consumer if you decide you'd like to lease/buy another brand.


So you're at 3 years and weather or not you lease or bought, time for a new Car: in the purchase If you've been making regular payments, you are most likely in positive equity on your trade (Money that you can use to deal) and No strings attached to your car.


At lease end you have zero dollars, and you might and probably owe any of these above charges.


So with the financed car I have Cash in Equity; for example say $5,500


The Leased Car I owe; a Disposition fee, Mileage and wear & tear; could be say $2,100


So now that savings with the lease on that calculator quickly flips significantly in my favor. And the whole time I had the freedom to do whatever to the car, I could trade or sell it at any time (with out strings).


I realize my "scenario" here is very subjective, but I find that most people are falling into this exact scenario. The simple fact is Car brands LOVE leases is because it's very easy to make more money on the transaction. You'll find when your shopping for a car, they will almost always say "Oh you should lease". They can pad the deal in 3 or 4 more additional areas now, and it's difficult for even an experienced person to follow. So that slight gap I pointed out in the start of the post gets even smaller if they pad a money factor, or if they tweak a lease term to 39 Months, etc.

schalliol

Really like the individual contour seating package. I recommended against it to someone before I bought the car, but boy was I wrong. The feel of the seats is incredible, and they're more sporty than the standard seats with all the adjustments to hold you in.

True, the stitching look on the S6 standard seats is nice-looking, but the non adjustable headrest is a bummer on them. Frankly the S6 on the headrest doesn't match the car. An S6 is an understated wow kind of car, but not with the gaudy S6 on the headrest.

75 Fox

That is essentially exactly my experience for my 2016 S6 with almost all the goodies except B&O and cold weather (kept the flat wheel).

check my previous posts for details, and, i picked it up in germany, too.

MikeS6

Yea like I was mentioning I admit I've heard a lot of people raving about the Contour Seating package. I think when you think like big picture however, the S6 though understated, is a luxury sports sedan.


Most of the S6's in my area like say 125 Miles radius (Massachusetts) All had the cars optioned with out the Contour seating, and most of the other option packages were in all in. On the same point none (except one rare find) didn't have say the Sport differential package. You quickly start to see that who ever was ordering these vehicles for the dealerships is thinking about mass-appeal. In other words someone actually interested in these 90K beasts would probably want some of those legendary iconic seats, etc. that they've seen in reviews, and looked at in pictures, etc. One option that you did mention, the Cold weather package, deletes that flat bottom steering wheel, I did find that that smaller option ($500) was very "mixed", some cars had the Cold weather, others did not. When I think back to my Ford SHO it had a heated steering wheel, and I loved it, and used it all the time. So even though I kinda-like the look of the flat bottom steering wheel, because of where I live (North East) The Cold weather package is nice for me and my guests in my S6. It's funny though if there was some way to option a heated steering wheel, with a flat bottom (like the S8 has so it is possible to have) with an additional cost, I'd probably take it I have to admit.


The only way I could see paying $2000 for that option, consider everything that you have to give up, is to actually be convinced by sitting in them and using all the functions, etc. See if these seats are truly "heavenly" as some of you suggest. :-) I'm a sucker for comfort... One of the things that the S6 kinda lacks is a nice Comfortable Lincoln-ish kinds of ride comfort (Bumps, squishyish, etc.) So those seats might be a nice way to balance out that stiffer sporty ride that the S6 has.

MikeS6

Most Car dealerships sell close to Invoice these days and 8% is like I think right at invoice. Audi was no different. When I bought my car there was some semi-public Dealer cash the dealer was getting. So that made it easier for me to get right to invoice, and then I had to only negotiate my higher than trade value trade in deal, which is where I dipped into some of that dealer cash.

schalliol

Mike, you might try the suspension on Comfort to see if that helps. I sure don't feel a stiff ride in my car on Auto with the individual contour seating package. I want a responsive car that I can take in corners at high speed without body roll and feel the road as needed, but I don't want to feel jarred by a crack in the pavement for no reason.

I do agree that in the C8 the Audi should offer some of the S8 features in the S6, but I guess they're trying to find more reasons for people to want to buy the S8. It would certainly be ideal for them to offer the diamond stitching on the contour package in the S6 like the S8. I don't know that I really want a flat bottom steering wheel in my car, but I've only driven much less sophisticated cars that have them, so who knows.

MikeS6

Yea, just so I'm clear, I actually fell that the ride even though is a little stiff (even on comfort on the ADS) is not that bad at all, I feel it's actually "dead-***-smooth" as Brian Cooley says. When I drive that car on the highway, it's the smoothest car, I feel like I'm hovering over the pavement. Granted that's the Highway where the road is well maintained and extremely level, etc. But on the back roads it's a bit stiff, even in comfort. However it's just a right amount of Stiff, while still bouncy-ish. That "Somewhat stiff-wish ride" is probably due to the summer tires and 20" Wheels more than anything.


I'd say I said it was a bit stiff mostly because that's what a lot of reviews have said about the S6. I guess it's very difficult to get a car that is super-Comfy on one had, then like push a button, and it transforms into a raw Sports car. As far as I understand it, the S6 is one of the closest cars that can kind of do that.