Sway Control When Towing
02-24-2017, 07:03 AM
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Sway Control When Towing
I have the 2017 Q5 and I'm towing a 22ft Airstream travel trailer. How do I control the sway without a weight distribution hitch. For me the sway is really bad. Additionally, Audi does not recommend using a weight distribution hitch.
02-24-2017, 07:23 AM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
First, have you weighed it or know the weight? At 22 feet, that sounds likely well over any recommended Q5 towing weight, no matter the motor or even marginally more liberal Euro towing specs.
That aside, what is the weight at the hitch/trailer ball? Have you measured it, or taken to shop to do so? You are going to probably want that at about 250 pounds max; you can push it a bit perhaps but not drastically. You really need the weight of the trailer though, because your objective is maybe 6-7% weight onto tongue. Thus 4000 pounds as an example would be back to same zone the max--240-280 pounds on tongue. Some might push the 7% up a few points higher, but a guess is your trailer weight is high so you will need as a practical matter to stay to a lower percentage to not overload hitch and tow vehicle. Backing up, tongue weight and general balance is often critical to avoiding unnecessary sway. Setting it low (often to avoid pushing down rear end on underequipped tow vehicles) is a mistake, and setting it high is too--which can also overload all of tow vehicle, tires and hitch tongue weight capacities.
If this is full height trailer, I suppose you could have aero issues too--not just the wind ones. Airstream or not, big slab back there that may have different aero properties at speed, besides just a lot of air resistance. But first thing is to review tongue loading. Also, if this is a regular trailer, be careful how you are loading it. It could actually be reasonably set up for tongue weights, or at least in zone. But if you open the proverbial door and just shove in hundreds of pounds of suitcases, gear, coolers, etc, you can destroy the tongue balance uninentionally. Thus, need to spread extra pounds/cargo out, or try to keep right near axle(s) center. Also if trailer is modified in a serious way--water tanks, lots of propane, a generator, etc, again need to look at effects on tongue weight and balance. Do not just assume dealer or factory did the set up right, and they may have had pretty different assumptions about size of tow vehicle anyway.
If you don't have the equipment or know the techniques, get it to a decent trailer shop. You can actually sometimes weigh the tongue on a bath scale if you use simple tricks, like landing tongue on a 2 x 4 or 6 in center of span with one end supported on block and other on scale. You use front tongue jack to lower it down onto the board to then measure. That will halve the apparent weight hitting the scale and can avoid overloading scale. If (or rather when...) you find there is an issue, you need to move the whole wheel and suspension assembly on the trailer frame. I've done this on my boat trailer, but it is way easier when boat is off it. Can't do that with a big travel trailer. Need to jack up and support weight while doing, and that assumes it is just simple clamp type attachment at axle and the usual leaf springs in general. And 22 feet might be dual axle? (which again would make we wonder about tow capacity...) You may well need to get it to a shop that services trailers to get it done. Should be dialed in anyway, regardless of tow vehicle.
That aside, what is the weight at the hitch/trailer ball? Have you measured it, or taken to shop to do so? You are going to probably want that at about 250 pounds max; you can push it a bit perhaps but not drastically. You really need the weight of the trailer though, because your objective is maybe 6-7% weight onto tongue. Thus 4000 pounds as an example would be back to same zone the max--240-280 pounds on tongue. Some might push the 7% up a few points higher, but a guess is your trailer weight is high so you will need as a practical matter to stay to a lower percentage to not overload hitch and tow vehicle. Backing up, tongue weight and general balance is often critical to avoiding unnecessary sway. Setting it low (often to avoid pushing down rear end on underequipped tow vehicles) is a mistake, and setting it high is too--which can also overload all of tow vehicle, tires and hitch tongue weight capacities.
If this is full height trailer, I suppose you could have aero issues too--not just the wind ones. Airstream or not, big slab back there that may have different aero properties at speed, besides just a lot of air resistance. But first thing is to review tongue loading. Also, if this is a regular trailer, be careful how you are loading it. It could actually be reasonably set up for tongue weights, or at least in zone. But if you open the proverbial door and just shove in hundreds of pounds of suitcases, gear, coolers, etc, you can destroy the tongue balance uninentionally. Thus, need to spread extra pounds/cargo out, or try to keep right near axle(s) center. Also if trailer is modified in a serious way--water tanks, lots of propane, a generator, etc, again need to look at effects on tongue weight and balance. Do not just assume dealer or factory did the set up right, and they may have had pretty different assumptions about size of tow vehicle anyway.
If you don't have the equipment or know the techniques, get it to a decent trailer shop. You can actually sometimes weigh the tongue on a bath scale if you use simple tricks, like landing tongue on a 2 x 4 or 6 in center of span with one end supported on block and other on scale. You use front tongue jack to lower it down onto the board to then measure. That will halve the apparent weight hitting the scale and can avoid overloading scale. If (or rather when...) you find there is an issue, you need to move the whole wheel and suspension assembly on the trailer frame. I've done this on my boat trailer, but it is way easier when boat is off it. Can't do that with a big travel trailer. Need to jack up and support weight while doing, and that assumes it is just simple clamp type attachment at axle and the usual leaf springs in general. And 22 feet might be dual axle? (which again would make we wonder about tow capacity...) You may well need to get it to a shop that services trailers to get it done. Should be dialed in anyway, regardless of tow vehicle.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 02-24-2017 at 07:47 AM.
02-24-2017, 08:17 AM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
FWIW, upper range of our boat on trailer and full fuel and cargo load is around 3500 pounds. From tongue to outboard tip probably not too far off yours on total towed length and then axle to axle length from Q5 to trailer. But generally low overall and fuel load is under floor too. I know it tows fine even at upper end of rational tow speeds like passing if needed. Only sways if I basically intentionally try to induce it. A run about (or ski) boat size--not a big cruiser--probably has less wind and aero effects in tow though than typical travel trailers.
Meantime hopefully you find something off on tongue loading that can be addressed.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 02-24-2017 at 08:27 AM.
02-24-2017, 10:31 AM
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FWIW, I happily tow a tandem trailer weighing up to 2 tonne or more with a 2 litre TDI. I use a load distribution set-up and would not think of towing a heavy trailer without one as it makes everything operate much better, safer and stable. The only reason that Audi don't recommend it must be because they worry about the strength of the rear of the vehicle so I keep a close eye on the rear of the car for any movement of the towbar. I have many decades of experience towing with all makes of vehicles (including Q7) and I think common sense with loading is paramount, bearing in mind that Audi has to cover itself from people that have no towing experience. I think it's fool-hardy to tow the maximum weight without a load equalizer.
02-24-2017, 10:41 AM
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FWIW, I happily tow a tandem trailer weighing up to 2 tonne or more with a 2 litre TDI. I use a load distribution set-up and would not think of towing a heavy trailer without one as it makes everything operate much better, safer and stable. The only reason that Audi don't recommend it must be because they worry about the strength of the rear of the vehicle so I keep a close eye on the rear of the car for any movement of the towbar. I have many decades of experience towing with all makes of vehicles (including Q7) and I think common sense with loading is paramount, bearing in mind that Audi has to cover itself from people that have no towing experience. I think it's fool-hardy to tow the maximum weight without a load equalizer.
02-24-2017, 11:21 AM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
On weighing the tongue weight? It should be possible to do that reasonably yourself. Cut a piece of 2x4 or 4x4 to the hitch height, have someone hold that (4x4 will stand up by itself) on a good bathroom scale (should do 250-300#) and let the tongue rest on it. No big deal as compared to taking it someplace and paying them, if that's not convenient.
But even 50 gallons of water/waste will weigh over 400 pounds, bringing that 3600 (which may be net weight, unloaded, or may be curb weight with tanks fully loaded, you'd need to check) up to 4000# before you put your pajamas on board.
I accidentally got on some truck scales last week and found out the good doctor weighs in at 4680 fully loaded, shy a couple of gallons of gas, with me and the trunk junk in it. So, perhaps 4700# with a full tank and no passengers. Surprisingly nimble for a pink hippo in a tutu. [Fantasia] But I didn't think Airstream made anything that light in that length!
But even 50 gallons of water/waste will weigh over 400 pounds, bringing that 3600 (which may be net weight, unloaded, or may be curb weight with tanks fully loaded, you'd need to check) up to 4000# before you put your pajamas on board.
I accidentally got on some truck scales last week and found out the good doctor weighs in at 4680 fully loaded, shy a couple of gallons of gas, with me and the trunk junk in it. So, perhaps 4700# with a full tank and no passengers. Surprisingly nimble for a pink hippo in a tutu. [Fantasia] But I didn't think Airstream made anything that light in that length!
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02-24-2017, 02:19 PM
#9
AudiWorld Super User
Maybe. From having towed with A8 (and more HP and torque), air ride also makes a big diff. If Tesla (or other vehicles) have air ride in practice you can load up tongue more without tow vehicle sagging to hell. Q5 is pretty good compared to some minivans, but either air ride or helper air bladder add ons (not very viable with Q5 type struts) can get beyond Q5 even with seemingly similar vehicle capabilities.
FWIW, to another earlier reply, I'm also suspicious of what the weight really is, and also agree with dry vs. wet comment. Thus my opening comments about boat. Mine only nominally weighs 2800 pounds with motor and trailer. But I carry up to 45 gallons of fuel (rarely until near destination); 60 or whatever pounds of just main battery; 50 pounds of anchors, ropes, jackets and boat gear; and hundreds of pounds of toys and other stuff that I offload when I splash. Just dry vs. std. use set up could be many hundreds more pounds, suitcases, chairs, jugs, coolers, etc., yet many hundreds more. Thus, try to get an as towed weight off a truck scale, and set up hitch weight w/ loading in mind. I looked pretty carefully on mine exactly where the 45 gallons of fuel was to assess for how that changes towing balance since I am using std. passenger vehicles to tow, no body on frame stuff, no extra tow bars, etc. And I want it so other vehicles can tow boat + trailer too on a Class II hitch without lots of customization. Fortunately fuel tank for me is in floor almost right at axle line. A water tank counterpart way off center could wreak some havoc, or as I mentioned add on propane, gear carrier or bikes or motor bike hung off back, generator + fuel at one end, etc.
FWIW, to another earlier reply, I'm also suspicious of what the weight really is, and also agree with dry vs. wet comment. Thus my opening comments about boat. Mine only nominally weighs 2800 pounds with motor and trailer. But I carry up to 45 gallons of fuel (rarely until near destination); 60 or whatever pounds of just main battery; 50 pounds of anchors, ropes, jackets and boat gear; and hundreds of pounds of toys and other stuff that I offload when I splash. Just dry vs. std. use set up could be many hundreds more pounds, suitcases, chairs, jugs, coolers, etc., yet many hundreds more. Thus, try to get an as towed weight off a truck scale, and set up hitch weight w/ loading in mind. I looked pretty carefully on mine exactly where the 45 gallons of fuel was to assess for how that changes towing balance since I am using std. passenger vehicles to tow, no body on frame stuff, no extra tow bars, etc. And I want it so other vehicles can tow boat + trailer too on a Class II hitch without lots of customization. Fortunately fuel tank for me is in floor almost right at axle line. A water tank counterpart way off center could wreak some havoc, or as I mentioned add on propane, gear carrier or bikes or motor bike hung off back, generator + fuel at one end, etc.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 02-24-2017 at 02:31 PM.
02-24-2017, 08:34 PM
#10
AudiWorld Senior Member
The Airstream Sport 22FB is 3654 lbs dry...and is single axle. You are already exceeding 3/4 of GVWR before you put anything in it, and the single rear axle does not provide the sway control you get in a tandem.
Get an electric brake controller installed so that you can manually actuate the trailer brakes. This reengages the hitch under load and slows both the TV and trailer.
Grey
Get an electric brake controller installed so that you can manually actuate the trailer brakes. This reengages the hitch under load and slows both the TV and trailer.
Grey