QuarkXP

VERY LONG POST! But I'm VERY confused... anyone who can figure this one out deserves a medal!



I was recommended to this area of the forum after posting to the specific model section for my A4 troubles. So I am going to try here as well.

Do keep in mind, that as of yesterday (April 10), both of my keys were reprogrammed, and one even had a new chip put in by the authorized dealer.

UPDATE: As of 2:30 today (April 11) the guy at the Audi dealership is telling me that they want to have the car overnight as he referenced possible trouble with a "wiring harness" that they need to look at.



A few weeks ago, I had started a post on here (https://forums.audiworld.com/a4gen2/msgs/1093238.phtml) regarding my A4 stalling on start.

Since that time, I started to notice the car icon would flash on the dashboard upon start... indicating something is wrong with the anti-theft system according to Audi as well as the manual. I was told that by the dealership where I bought the car (which recently decided to longer be an Audi dealership, just Volkswagen, Nissan, etc. that the keys probably just need to be reporgrammed. I drive three hours to them, only for them to tell me that they could only get one key to accept the new codes, and that the other key is no longer functional. In addition to that, because they are no longer and Audi dealership, they said that their computers are no longer being updated like they used to for Audi vehicles, so they recommended that I take the car to an Audi dealership. The closest to me now, is four hours away.

So I contact the Audi dealership, and fax them the print out of codes/information the other dealership had, and it indicated quite a few with the anti-theft system. Just looking over the fax I sent them of the printed cods, they said they'd have to order a new computer chip for the key fob, and it be about $200.00. I gave them the go ahead to do so.

The chip came in this week and they scheduled me in for today (April 10). I drive the four hours, and arrive at the dealership at 11:30 in the morning. By 1:00 or so, the car was ready and if they wanted me to do the oil change, rotation of tires, change the pollen filters, run a computer test, etc. that they have time to do so. I gave them the "okay" to do that, too.

Around 3:00, the car was ready. They said they cleared/reset all the codes, did all the maintenance as I referenced above, and said both keys now work.

I take care of the paperwork with them, etc. and go out to the car. I attempt to start it and without the starting the ignition, I just turned it enough to get power to the car (dash lights up, radio starts) and the car icon starts to flash. I attemped to start the car, and it immediately stalls.

I walk back into the Audi dealership, tell them it doesn't work, and he looked at me like I was joking. He comes out to try and it stalls for him, too.

They get the car started, drive it back into the service bay. About 30 minutes later, he comes back and says the "immombilizer" in the key fob is bad. Not the part that controls the door/trunk/locking/unlocking chip, but the other side of the fob that sends the signal to the car, and that an entire new key would need to be cut as well. He told me how much that would cost in addititon to what I've already spent, and I said, "If that's the problem, yes, do it."

So around 4:30 this afternoon, he comes out and says that service is done with the car, everything is fixed and ready to go. I get out the parking lot, the car is running, and I take off. I drive approximately 1.5 hours before stopping, turning off the car, and filling up the tank with gas.

I get back into the car, and it starts fine. I drive other 3 hours or so home, without any problems. I get into town, and run the car through the automatic car wash. I drive out of the car wash, pull over to the vacuum bays, turn the car off, and proceed too vacuum out the driver side floor of the car. I finish, start the car again without trouble.

I drive about 2 miles to the house, get into the driveway, opened the garage door, pulled and shut the car off. Take the key out of the ignition, and just before getting out, I thought to myself that I'll try to start it up again... you know, enjoying the fact that my problem with starting the Audi is fixed (HA!). I put the key back into the ignition, just turn it the one click to give power to the dash, radio, etc. (didn't physically try to start it at that point), and I see the car icon start to flash.

Given the fact that I have been dealing with this for weeks now, spending six hours driving last week and eight hours this week to the dealerships, my heart just sunk!

Even though the car icon on the dash is blinking once again, I proceed to try and start the car, and it stalls.

On the second try, the car starts, but the car icon continues to flash, and within 5 seconds, the hazard lights turned on! I pressed the hazard lights button above thee radio controls thinking it was "stuck" or that maybe I accidentially hit... and it wouldn't turn off! I turned the car off, and then of course, the hazard lights stopped. I pulled the key out of the ignition, and tried the other key which they supposedly reprogrammed, etc. etc. etc. Put it into the ignition, and the car icon on the dash is blinking again. I pull it out, put it back in, and it starts no problem, and no flashing car icon.

I sat there for a while trying and it seems to be back to it's "starts when it wants to" sporadic mode.

Sigh.

What's frustrating, is when I gave my keys to the first dealership (the one that isn't an Audi dealership anymore as of recently), he said, "I think I see your problem already!"

My office is in a building that has fob access only. It's a little plastic tag with a magnetic device on the end of it. The guy told me that he's heard of/seen these things cause trouble by erasing the code in the Audi key fobs, which prevent it from sending the correct signal to the car.

Since then, I've detached that from my key chain, and don't allow it to come anywhere NEAR the Audi key fob in fear of it being troubled by the magnet on the fob I use to get into my office building.

In fact, I left it home today, so these newly programmed fobs, one with a new computer chip, etc. wouldn't even have the chance to be erased/troubled by something such as that.

Again, I realize this is a VERY long post, but I wanted to be thorough and as detailed as possible as I'm looking for any/all ideas at this point. Of course, I'm going to be in touch with the Audi dealership first thing in the morning to let them know it's not working after all they did. But because there's such a wealth of knowledge here, I am curious as to what others may think.

As for the codes... the dealer that that I went to first gave me a print out... and I see some of you are actually posting what I assume are results directly from the software. I'm pretty clueless/green when it comes to the technical nature of automobiles, so I really do just rely on what it is given to me at the dealership(s).

I have the DIAGNOSIS LOG in front of me but it's 7 pages!! I've just finished typing in all of it though. HAHA! Can you tell that I'll do just about ANYTHING to get to the bottom of this problem to get my car back to normal?

Again, this printed log with codes is from the dealer that is no longer an Authorized with Audi.
This is NOT the log that was generated yesterday at the Audi dealership.

My thanks to those of you have any insight as to what is going on. I sincerely appreciate it.



DIAGNOSIS LOG
VEHICLE:
MARQUE: AUDI
TYPE: AUDI A4 USA/CDN 2002
MODEL YEAR: 2003 (3)
BODY VERSION: SEDAN
ENGINE CODE: AMB 1.8 L TURBO Motronic / 125 kW

DIAGNOSTIC TIME EXPENDITURE (TU): 62

EVENT MEMORY 1:
MOTRONIC FUEL INJECTION AND IGNITION SYSTEM ME 7
8E0909518AK
1.8L R4/5VT G
CODING 16751
Dealer number 02802
8E0909018AA
---
0006

1 FAULT(S) detected

17978 P1570 008
CONTROL MODULE LOCKED
Sporadic

08 -- Climate Control System
8E0820043L
A4 Klimaautotmat 1116
Coding 0
Dealer number 63351
------------

3 Fault(s) detected
00474 049
Anti-Theft Engine Disable Control Module-J334-
No communication
Sporadic

00474 027
Anti-Theft Engine Disable Control Module-J334-
Incorrect Signal
Sporadic

00716 041
Recirculation Flap Motor-V113-
Blocked or no Voltage
Sporadic

16-Steer Wheel Electronics
8E0953549N
Lenksaulenmodul 0308
Coding 41
Dealer number 63351
------------

1 Fault(s) detected

00474 049
Anti-Theft Engine Disable Control Modeule-J334-
No Communication
Sporadic

17-Instrument Cluster
8E0920950L
KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB4 D36
Coding 3200
Dealer Number 02811
------------

WAULC68E13A2
90350 AUZ6Z0B0352112
------------

1 Fault(s) detected

01176 007
Key
Signal too low
Sporadic

46 - Comfort System -- dooor ctrl.mo.front&rear w.anti-theft
8E0959433BB
Komfortgerat T7B 1311
Coding 11788
Dealer number 63351
------------
8E1959801
Tursteuer.FS BRM 0002
------------
8E1959802E
Tursteuer.BF BRM 0002
------------
8E0959801A
Tursteuer.HL BRM 0002
------------
8E0959802A
Tursteuer.HR BRM 0002

4 Fault(s) detected

00955 035
Key 1
Sporadic

00956 035
Key 2
Sporadic

01572 035
Alarm via Door Contact Switch, Pass. Side

01812 037
Voltage supply for Door control module, passenger side-J387-
Faulty

02 - Automatic Transmission 01V KWP 2000
8E0927156P
AG5 01V 1.815VT USA
Coding 1002
Dealer number 63351
------------
0910

0 Fault(s) detected

03 - ABS/ESP All-Wheel Drive (AWD) Bosch 5.7
8E0614517H
ABS/ESP allrad 2328
Coding 4477
Dealer number 03303
------------

0 Fault(s) detected

09 - Vehicle Electrical System High-line
8E0907279E
int. Lastmodul USA 0305
Coding 13
Dealer number 63351
------------
0 Fault(s) detected

15 - Airbag 8.4E
8E0959655C
Airbag 8.4 EP
Coding 10607
Dealer number 63351
------------
2000

0 Fault(s) detected

55 - Dynamic Headlight Range Control
4Z7907357
dynamische LWR D09
Coding 60
Dealer number 63351
------------

0 Fault(s) detected

56 - Radio
8E0035195F
symphony II NP2 0051
Coding 1201
Dealer number 03303
------------

0 Fault(s) detected

STEPS COMPLETED

NO. MASK/TEST NAME/FUNCTION/TEST STEP
1. Diagnosis Start
2. Vehicle Identification
3. Vehicle System Test
4. Vehicle system test completed 1
5. Function Test
6. Function Test 1: Start_Protokooll_laufleistung_21.....OK
7. Function Test
8. Function Test 2: GWK_Start_Hinweis_21.....OK
9. Function Test
10. Function Test 3: SYS__8E__1_0606_21_Hauptprogramm_Meldepflicht..... X
11. Fault Memory Contents
12. Test Plan 1
13. Function Test 4: KD5708_4B_96____3_0298.....OK
Transponder in key faaulty or missing
14. Test Plan 2
15. Test Plan 3
16. Function Test 5: KD5708_8E_57___2_0703_21.....?
Synchronization of remote control keys
17. Function Test 6: J527_8E_91____1_1000_21_Anpassung.....?
J572-Steering Column Elec.Sys.Ctrl.Mo., adaptation
18. Test Plan 4
19. Vehicle Self-Diagnosis
20. Function Test 7: SYS_8E_MOTO1_2_0206_21_MSG_gesperrt.....OK
ECM 01 - ECM locked, checking
21. Test Plan 5
22. Function Test 8: J527_8E_91____1_1000_21_Anpassung.....?
J527-Steering Column Elec.Sys.Ctrl.Mo., adaptation
23. Test Plan 6
24. Function Test 9: J527_8E_91____1,1000_21_Anpassung.....?
J572-Steering Column Elec.Sys.Ctrl.Mo. adaptation
25. Test Plan 7
26. Function Test 10: SYS_8E_MOTO1_2_0206_21_MSG_gesperrt.....OK
ECM 01 - ECM locked, checking
27. Test Plan 8
28. Function/Component Selection
29. Test Plan 9
30. Function Test 11: J623_24_vereinheitlichtte_Mwbs_V1_27_0606_21.....O K
Read measuring value blocks
31. Test Plan 10
31. Functioin/Component Selection
33. Test Plan 11
34. Function Test 12: KD9003____1_0202_21_Anpassung.....OK
Adapting ECM to Immobilizer
35. Test Plan 12
36. Function Test 13: J387_8E_57___1_0301_21_elektrisch
.....OK
J387-Front Pass. Door Control Mo., elec. malfunction
37. Test Plan 13
38. Function Test 14: J285_8E_96____6-1000_21.....OK
J285-Instr. Cluster, adaptation to ECM (RG.90)
39. Test Plan 14
40. Function/Component Selection
41. Test Plan 15
42. Function/Component Selection
43. Test Plan 16
44. Function Test 15: J393_8E_57____1_0407_21_TPL_2014888.....?
J393 - Technical Bulletiin
45. Function Test 16: KD5708_4B_96____3_0298.....?
Transponder in key faulty or missing
46. Test Plan 17

Test Plan 1:
System Test Plan
Comfort system central control module - (01812) Voltage supply for Door control module, passenger side -J387-
J387-Front Pass. Door Control Mo., elec. malfunction
Comfort system central control module - (01572) Alarm via Door Contact Switch, Pass. Side
F3-Door Contact Switch-Passenger Side
Comfort system central control module (00956) Key 2, Comfort system central control module - (00955)

KEY 1
-Synchronization of remote control keys
Instrument Cluster/Immobilizer - (01176) Key - Signal too low
-Transponder in key faulty or missing
Steering Wheel Electroniic - (004747) Anti-Theft Engine Disable Control Module-J334--No communication
-Comfort CAN-bus malfunction
-J527 Steering Column Elec.Sys.Ctrl.Mo., adaptation Engine Electronic - (P1570) Control Module Locked
-ECM 01 - ECM locked, checking

Test Plan 2:
System Test Plan
Instrument Cluster/Immobilizer - (01176) Key - Signal too low
OK Transponder in key faulty or missing

Test Plan 3:
System Test Plan
Comfort system central control modulue - (00956) Key 2, Comfort system centrarl control module - (00955) Key 1
? Synchronization of remomte control keys

Test Plan 4:
System Test Plan
Steering Wheel Electronic - (00474) Anti-Theft Engine Disable Control Module-J334--No communication
? J527-Steering Column Elec.Sys.Ctrl.Mo., adaptation

Test Plan 5:
System Test Plan
Engine Electronic - (P1570) Control Module Locked
OK ECM 01 - ECM locked, checking

Test Plan 6:

Test Plan 7:

Test Plan 8:

Test Plan 9:

User Test Plan
- Read measuring value blocks

Test Plan 10:

User Test Plan
OK Read measuring value blocks

Test Plan 11:
User Test Plan
- Adapting ECM to Immobilizer

Test Plan 12:
User Test Plan
OK Adapting ECM to Iimmobilizer
- J285-Instr. Cluster, adaptation to ECM (RG.90)

Test Plan 13:
System Test Plan
Comfort system central control module - (01812) Voltage supply for Doooor control module, passenger side -J387
OK J387-Front Pass. Door Control Mo., elec. malfunction

Test Plan 14:
User Test Plan
OK J285-Inst. Cluster, adaptation to ECM (RG.90)

Test Plan 15:
User Test Plan
- J393 - Technical Bulletin

Test Plan 16:
User Test Plan
? J393 - Technical Bulletin
OK Transponder ini key faulty or missing

Test Plan 17:
System Test Plan
Instrument Cluster/Immobilizer - (01176) Key - Signal too low
? Transponder in key faulty or missing
Comfort system central control module (01572) Alarm via Door Contact Switch, Pass. Side
- F3-Door Contact Switch-Passenger side
Comfort system central control module (01812) Voltage supply for Door module, passenger side-J387-
OK J387-Front Pass. Door Controol Mo. elec. malfunction
Comfort system central module - (00956) Key 2, Comfort system central control module - (00955)
Key 1
? Synchroonization of remote control keys
Steering Wheel Electronic - (00474) Anti-Theft Engine Disable Control Module - J334 -- No communication
- Comfort CAN-bus, CAN-bus malfunction
? J527-Steering Column Elec.Sys.Ctrl.Mo.,adaptation
Engine Electronic - (P1570) Control Module Locked
OK ECM 01 - ECM locked, checking
User Test Plan
OK Reading measuring value blocks
OK Adapting ECM to Immobilizer
OK J285-Inst. Cluster, adaptation to ECM (RG.90)
? J393 - Technical Bulletin
? Transponder in key faulty or missing

Function Test 1: Start_Protokoll_laufleistung_21

Test/Step/Action Outputs Result
Test Step: Determine mileage from SGBD
Diagnosis OK
OKAY
SCH1281
Diagnosis OK
98960
OKAY

Test Step: Supplement protocol distance
Function Test OK

Function Test 2: GWK_Start_Hinweis_21
Test Step: Note for warranty claim
NOTE: If the performed repairs are claimed through warranty, it is absolutely necessary to send the diagnostic protocol per online when Guided Fault Finding. It is absolutely necessary that the diagnostic protocol contains the correct work order number and VIN. If no diagnostic protocol is present, the warranty claim will be rejected.

The diagnostic connector caan only pre-maturely disconnected on instructions.

Test Step: Note for test requirements
Signal
General test requirements
-Battery voltage OK
-Fuses OK => Wiring diagram
-Grounnd (GND) connections tight and without corrosion or oxidation (loosen and clean GND connections). =>Wiring diagram
-Electrical wiring as well as test instrument leads should only be connected or disconnected with the ignition switched off

Function Test OK

Function Test 3:SYS__8E____1_0606_21_Hauptprogramm_Meldepflicht
Test Step/Action Outputs Result
Function Test X
Function Test 4: KD5708_4B_96____3_0298
Test Step/Action Outputs Result
Test Step: Connecting VAS 5051
Signal -Plug diagnostic computer into vehicle
Test Step: Switch ignition on
Signal -Switch on ignition
Test Step: Read measuring value block
Diagnosis OK
1
1
Question Value display group 1:1 NO
Value display group 3:1
The vehicle key is OK

DO YOU WANT TO TEST THE NEXT KEY?
Signal -Switch ignition off and pull out key
-Now insert another key into the ignition lock
Signal -Switch on ignition
Signal END OF TEST
Function Test OK

Function Test 5:KD5708_8E_57___2_0703_21
Test Step/Action Outputs RESULT
Test Step: Overview
Signal With this test program all vehicle keys can be syncronized to the Central Control module for comfort system.
The remote control key must be synchronized if the vehicle cannot be unlocked or locked using the remote control and the key data is already known to the vehicle (recognizable at malfunction entry -00955 to 00958 - key 1 to key 4-).

Requirementns:
-Diagnostic cable VAS 5051/3 and K Lead Adapter VAS 6017A
Required test equipment:
-If necessary, VAG 1594/13 Clamps Test Probes from VAG 1594 A Connector Test Kit
NOTES:
-After replacing the battery or disconnecting the battery ALL vehicle keys must be syncrhonized.
-When changing the battery of a remote control key only this key must be synchronized again.
-If the synchronization procedure was not successful, an adaptation of the remote control key(s) to the Central (final page stopped here)

[END]

Uwe@Ross-Tech.com

of the whole immobilizer system. And in light of the fact that you experienced the same symptoms with both keys, it makes no sense that they replaced one of the transponders. IMO your problem is either with the immobilizer pickup coil, or more likely given the other faults, the connections on the back of the instrument cluster.

If it were mine, I'd pull the cluster out, disconnect the stuff on the back, and go at it (sparingly) with some contact cleaner and Stabilant.

Of course, I'd also urge you to get a VAG-COM so you can clear the codes yourself and then see exactly what codes crop up again if/when the car doesn't start.

-Uwe-

diagnosticator1

transponder recognition problems. Even though the reader coil itself is not usually faulty, the electrical connections between the reader coil and the instrument cluster has a history of becoming intermittent involving the mechanical aspects and wear in the ignition switch assembly. The ignition switch assembly incorporating the immobilizer reader coil can be replaced reusing the original existing ignition lock cylinder to retain the same keys.

QuarkXP

Thanks for the response -- I will be printing these out and bringing to the dealer. I'm driving the car down to the dealer on Sunday to drop it off so that they have it first thing Monday morning.

When you reference the "electrical connections" above, is that what the dealer meant when they said they want to check the wiring harness?

diagnosticator1

check the harness connectors at the back of the instrument cluster as advised by Uwe. But in any case, the ignition switch/reader coil assembly has electrical connections that wear as the switch is used on a daily basis, and from my experience, is often the source of the intermittent immobilizer transponder recognition problems.

QuarkXP

Thank you -- I will pass this information along to the dealer!!