Engine Noise After Replacing Timing Belt & Valve Cover Gaskets
10-15-2012, 09:34 AM
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Engine Noise After Replacing Timing Belt & Valve Cover Gaskets
Hey Everyone!
I've been preying on the forums for some time to complete some Do It Yourself Audi Work & until now have not registered or posted (until now!). I have an 01 A6 2.7T with 130,000 on the clock. I'm no mechanic, but am mechanically inclined. This is the first Audi I've worked on (huge pain in the ***)
So... this past month I completed a timing belt, valve cover/cam adjuster seals, auxiliary water pump, "spider hose", vacuum lines(every one), power steering pump swap job (I know tell me about it, life sucked!)
What I replaced...
Timing Belt, Idle Roller, Tension Roller, Timing Belt Dampener, water pump, Thermostat
Cam Adjuster flat seals, Half Moon seals
Every 3.5mm vacuum line I could find, entire spider hose assembly, auxiliary water pump
Power steering pump, banjo bolt from pump, all new hose clamps for everything mentioned & p/s reservoir
Timing Belt I did 100% by these instructions
http://www.contitech.de/pages/presse...pp_audi_en.pdf
Engine was turned over by hand 6x's to ensure proper timing & to prime the cam adjusters back with oil before starting engine.
Start engine up hoping it doesn't explode, it starts. Runs normally but sounds a bit louder than usual.
From the drivers side of the engine (with my ear inside the wheel well & from the top of the engine) I can hear a slight tap/ticking noise that wasn't there previously (not the fuel injector "tick" noise, I was aware of that injector noise before). Noise is not too loud but wasn't there before. N80 Valve also began clicking its valve much louder than previously ( I had not touched anything connecting to the N80 valve, I also put more gas in the tank to see if it shut the N80 up, it didn't)
I opened the oil fill plug (which I drilled to make it "vented") and I can see oil getting flicked about so oil is in & on the cam's on the side that the noise coming from.
Car Idles 100% fine, drove it for 100 miles with no loss of power or performance. I have no check engine lights in 120 miles of driving.I checked it with a VAG COM MANY times in that 120 miles
Engine is now leaking more oil than previously & can be seen burning (white smoke) on the bottom middle valve cover drivers side and the back of the passenger side from underneath somewhere (looks like under the combi valve, not from the combi though.) I put a piece of paper under the engine (without belly pan) to judge how much is being lost. It seems maybe 4 or 5 quarter size drops that somewhat correspond with smoke in their position. It's been 120 miles so I've ruled out excess oil burning from when I cleaned the valve covers before pulling them.
I did every procedure by the book & took my time. Aside from a little smoke/leaking oil from my bad valve cover before I did the work, none of the other symptoms were present before this.
Also, my cars operating oil temp was at 210 degrees all summer driving normally and can rise to maybe a max of 235 degrees when driving really hard. This job had my car laid up for nearly a month, and here in Chicago, the temp changed from 80 degrees outside to 40-50 degrees outside. My car still operates at the same oil temps at 45 degrees outside temp as it did at 80 degrees outside temp.
Any help would be appreciated, I feel like I wasted a month of my life working on this car. The intention was to save $ (not time) by doing these repairs. I had my Torque Converter replaced at 110K & after paying $1600 (got the damn P0741) for that & decided if I could do the repair from now on I would. My other question is, when will things stop going wrong with this car? Since I bought it at 105K it's been one problem after another. Insight would be appreciated before I get rid of this car.
I've been preying on the forums for some time to complete some Do It Yourself Audi Work & until now have not registered or posted (until now!). I have an 01 A6 2.7T with 130,000 on the clock. I'm no mechanic, but am mechanically inclined. This is the first Audi I've worked on (huge pain in the ***)
So... this past month I completed a timing belt, valve cover/cam adjuster seals, auxiliary water pump, "spider hose", vacuum lines(every one), power steering pump swap job (I know tell me about it, life sucked!)
What I replaced...
Timing Belt, Idle Roller, Tension Roller, Timing Belt Dampener, water pump, Thermostat
Cam Adjuster flat seals, Half Moon seals
Every 3.5mm vacuum line I could find, entire spider hose assembly, auxiliary water pump
Power steering pump, banjo bolt from pump, all new hose clamps for everything mentioned & p/s reservoir
Timing Belt I did 100% by these instructions
http://www.contitech.de/pages/presse...pp_audi_en.pdf
Engine was turned over by hand 6x's to ensure proper timing & to prime the cam adjusters back with oil before starting engine.
Start engine up hoping it doesn't explode, it starts. Runs normally but sounds a bit louder than usual.
From the drivers side of the engine (with my ear inside the wheel well & from the top of the engine) I can hear a slight tap/ticking noise that wasn't there previously (not the fuel injector "tick" noise, I was aware of that injector noise before). Noise is not too loud but wasn't there before. N80 Valve also began clicking its valve much louder than previously ( I had not touched anything connecting to the N80 valve, I also put more gas in the tank to see if it shut the N80 up, it didn't)
I opened the oil fill plug (which I drilled to make it "vented") and I can see oil getting flicked about so oil is in & on the cam's on the side that the noise coming from.
Car Idles 100% fine, drove it for 100 miles with no loss of power or performance. I have no check engine lights in 120 miles of driving.I checked it with a VAG COM MANY times in that 120 miles
Engine is now leaking more oil than previously & can be seen burning (white smoke) on the bottom middle valve cover drivers side and the back of the passenger side from underneath somewhere (looks like under the combi valve, not from the combi though.) I put a piece of paper under the engine (without belly pan) to judge how much is being lost. It seems maybe 4 or 5 quarter size drops that somewhat correspond with smoke in their position. It's been 120 miles so I've ruled out excess oil burning from when I cleaned the valve covers before pulling them.
I did every procedure by the book & took my time. Aside from a little smoke/leaking oil from my bad valve cover before I did the work, none of the other symptoms were present before this.
Also, my cars operating oil temp was at 210 degrees all summer driving normally and can rise to maybe a max of 235 degrees when driving really hard. This job had my car laid up for nearly a month, and here in Chicago, the temp changed from 80 degrees outside to 40-50 degrees outside. My car still operates at the same oil temps at 45 degrees outside temp as it did at 80 degrees outside temp.
Any help would be appreciated, I feel like I wasted a month of my life working on this car. The intention was to save $ (not time) by doing these repairs. I had my Torque Converter replaced at 110K & after paying $1600 (got the damn P0741) for that & decided if I could do the repair from now on I would. My other question is, when will things stop going wrong with this car? Since I bought it at 105K it's been one problem after another. Insight would be appreciated before I get rid of this car.
10-15-2012, 12:35 PM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
soo did you do the rear cam plugs? those leak like hell. And need to be done with the valve covers off. Did you put silicone on the corners of the valve cover gasket on both sides? The noise, eh take the cover back off and inspect the cam adjuster. If the noise is coming from it, you may have damaged it if you cranked it down too hard
10-15-2012, 01:47 PM
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soo did you do the rear cam plugs? those leak like hell. And need to be done with the valve covers off. Did you put silicone on the corners of the valve cover gasket on both sides? The noise, eh take the cover back off and inspect the cam adjuster. If the noise is coming from it, you may have damaged it if you cranked it down too hard
I did put RTV on all four corners, both sides, and even a little in the valley of the chip looking piece by the cam adjuster. Took my time cleaning every surface with Q tips & brake cleaner Like I said I did everything by the book.
I must have done something wrong on the valve cover gasket & cam adjuster seal. IDK what though, I torqued them down to 7ft lbs using a torque pattern to distribute force evenly. Put RTV in the right spots, made sure everything had NO oil on it or gunk before applying RTV & gasket.Let it dry for over 24 hours to be cautious. WTF? lol.
Now when you speak of the cam adjuster being cranked down too hard are you referring to over-tightening the 3366 tool? How would I be able to tell if the adjuster was bad by looking at it? Is it safe to turn the engine over (not turn it on) but turn it over with the starter while the valve cover is off?
10-15-2012, 04:52 PM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
you cant just pop the cam plugs out and back in, huge huge waste of time and will leak again. Remove the bearing cap that sits over it, and then pull it right out, clean up, install new one, put small silicone on corners, and small small layer of silicone on portions of bearing cap that face 'out' and reinstall.
Also, dont bother doing torque specs. who really does that anyway, just snug them down. Probably too loose. Its just a guideline so gorilla mechanics who have no sense dont overtighten and break studs/bolts off.
Also, dont bother doing torque specs. who really does that anyway, just snug them down. Probably too loose. Its just a guideline so gorilla mechanics who have no sense dont overtighten and break studs/bolts off.
10-16-2012, 10:15 AM
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you cant just pop the cam plugs out and back in, huge huge waste of time and will leak again. Remove the bearing cap that sits over it, and then pull it right out, clean up, install new one, put small silicone on corners, and small small layer of silicone on portions of bearing cap that face 'out' and reinstall.
Also, dont bother doing torque specs. who really does that anyway, just snug them down. Probably too loose. Its just a guideline so gorilla mechanics who have no sense dont overtighten and break studs/bolts off.
Also, dont bother doing torque specs. who really does that anyway, just snug them down. Probably too loose. Its just a guideline so gorilla mechanics who have no sense dont overtighten and break studs/bolts off.
Removing bearing caps on the cam doesn't sound like something I want to do myself! Probably going to end up taking it in to have everything re done by someone who will warranty their work so if it leaks again they have to fix it. At least I did the timing belt right lol.
10-16-2012, 06:09 PM
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Replace your oil cap. "venting" it allows unmetered air into the engine. This isn't a carbed pickup.
As for your problems, it sounds like your pcv system is clogged or not hooked up properly The vented cap could also contribute to this, as the pcv can no longer create negative pressure in the crankcase. The noises? Well at this point you're looking for problems, so you're bound to find things you overlooked before.
As for your problems, it sounds like your pcv system is clogged or not hooked up properly The vented cap could also contribute to this, as the pcv can no longer create negative pressure in the crankcase. The noises? Well at this point you're looking for problems, so you're bound to find things you overlooked before.
10-17-2012, 05:49 AM
#7
Like Prospeeder said, you have to redo your cam plugs by removing bearing caps. I also believe you must take the twin cam out to properly clean and replace the metal seal under the cam tensioner.
Don't be intimidated by bearing caps and the twin camshafts. To torque the caps, you must have a 1/4 drive torque wrench (measured in pound-inch, not pound-foot). They are very low torque, and many have just hand-tighten them, casually.
I did a similar job in the span of 6 weeks. Re-fit one side of the twin camshafts twice due to a cam chain mistake. Just need the right "book", the right tool and a whole lot of patient and common sense. Here is the thread for that cam chain mistake:
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho....php?t=2833885
As for "book", I use Bently manual but later found this online version that is amazingly similar if not better:
http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/
Here is the chapter for removing the cam tensioner:
http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/do....59/34229631/3
It sucks having to do the job twice. I feel you, but it's fun too. Good luck.
Don't be intimidated by bearing caps and the twin camshafts. To torque the caps, you must have a 1/4 drive torque wrench (measured in pound-inch, not pound-foot). They are very low torque, and many have just hand-tighten them, casually.
I did a similar job in the span of 6 weeks. Re-fit one side of the twin camshafts twice due to a cam chain mistake. Just need the right "book", the right tool and a whole lot of patient and common sense. Here is the thread for that cam chain mistake:
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho....php?t=2833885
As for "book", I use Bently manual but later found this online version that is amazingly similar if not better:
http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/
Here is the chapter for removing the cam tensioner:
http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/do....59/34229631/3
It sucks having to do the job twice. I feel you, but it's fun too. Good luck.
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10-17-2012, 05:58 AM
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Replace your oil cap. "venting" it allows unmetered air into the engine. This isn't a carbed pickup.
As for your problems, it sounds like your pcv system is clogged or not hooked up properly The vented cap could also contribute to this, as the pcv can no longer create negative pressure in the crankcase. The noises? Well at this point you're looking for problems, so you're bound to find things you overlooked before.
As for your problems, it sounds like your pcv system is clogged or not hooked up properly The vented cap could also contribute to this, as the pcv can no longer create negative pressure in the crankcase. The noises? Well at this point you're looking for problems, so you're bound to find things you overlooked before.
Pretty sure the noise is the cam adjuster on the passenger side, looks like I need to replace it. I didn't compress it much at all when I replaced the cam adjuster seal to prevent causing damage, even then it didn't want to snap back 100% even after rocking it & turning the engine over by hand. I think it was on its way out, wish I knew that when it was all taken apart! I'm going to have a buddy of mine who runs an audi/vw indi shop take a peak at it, I'll post the verdict when I know.
10-17-2012, 06:02 AM
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Like Prospeeder said, you have to redo your cam plugs by removing bearing caps. I also believe you must take the twin cam out to properly clean and replace the metal seal under the cam tensioner.
Don't be intimidated by bearing caps and the twin camshafts. To torque the caps, you must have a 1/4 drive torque wrench (measured in pound-inch, not pound-foot). They are very low torque, and many have just hand-tighten them, casually.
I did a similar job in the span of 6 weeks. Re-fit one side of the twin camshafts twice due to a cam chain mistake. Just need the right "book", the right tool and a whole lot of patient and common sense. Here is the thread for that cam chain mistake:
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho....php?t=2833885
As for "book", I use Bently manual but later found this online version that is amazingly similar if not better:
http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/
Here is the chapter for removing the cam tensioner:
http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/do....59/34229631/3
It sucks having to do the job twice. I feel you, but it's fun too. Good luck.
Don't be intimidated by bearing caps and the twin camshafts. To torque the caps, you must have a 1/4 drive torque wrench (measured in pound-inch, not pound-foot). They are very low torque, and many have just hand-tighten them, casually.
I did a similar job in the span of 6 weeks. Re-fit one side of the twin camshafts twice due to a cam chain mistake. Just need the right "book", the right tool and a whole lot of patient and common sense. Here is the thread for that cam chain mistake:
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho....php?t=2833885
As for "book", I use Bently manual but later found this online version that is amazingly similar if not better:
http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/
Here is the chapter for removing the cam tensioner:
http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/do....59/34229631/3
It sucks having to do the job twice. I feel you, but it's fun too. Good luck.
10-17-2012, 04:58 PM
#10
AudiWorld Super User
Dude i didnt even see that about the oil cap. You need to get a new one. Thats totally silly. Dont vent it, your creating an air leak, and going to cause sludge buildup. Vent system pulls fuel vapors from the oil system. If fuel vapors condense into raw fuel in the oil, it attacks and breaks down the oil and causes sludge to form and make the oil acidic and shorten internal parts life.