Audi a4 Costly or No?
 

Hey,

I currently have an BMW e30, which is a good balance between luxury and performance. Although, I hate the fact that they are so old and the miles are really high up there on the odometer. This is why I am looking into buying a B5 Audi a4. My first question is;

- Are they really as costly as people say they are to uphold?
- Do they break down as much as the newer Audis?
- What's a good deal on these babies? (pice = millage wise, condition and so on...)
- Is it costly to upgrade things? (maybe a link or two that you know of)
- Does the 2.8 Quattro eat a lot of gasoline?
- Tell me something else I should know about the car :)

Thank You very much if you reply!!! :) :) :)

Well as in bmws in all dep who u buy it from and what kind of mataince have been done to it..

example i bought an 01 2.8 quattro with 122k miles on it for 2900 bucks.. got it from an lady in here mid 40s..

today i have 233k miles on it.. it has been flawless and runs and feels like it did when it was brand new..

only thing i have done in the 100k miles was change the oil every 3-5k miles bought tires and pads and rotors and one cv axle because of torn boot.. oh and i did the timing belt which was about 200 bucks for parts and about 6hrs of work..

other then that everything is orignal,including clutch.. IMO these cars r bulletprof and built like a tank.. my engine is perfect no leaks or ticks nothing.. i belive it can easily make it to 500k miles.. and i drive it pretty hard everyday about 150miles its my daily..

as far as gas mine gets about 20-24 dep how i drive it..

I owned an A4 for 160,000 miles and 11 years. I DIY'd for the last 7 years but my cost of maintenance was less than $300 per year (not including tires).

You will do much better if you can DIY. Get a VAG.com and a Bentley manual.

There is no such thing as deferred maintenance on an Audi. Things like timing belts, water pumps, overheating, over cooling, check engine lights cannot be ignored. This car is very dependent on electronics.

Ignoring problems can cost you big time.

If you want go faster mods you need a turbo car, most of the mods for the V6 do not make the car much faster except for the PES supercharger which is $$$.

Suspension mods can make the car feel faster,there is a noticeable better feel to a car with the sports package. The cars tend to wear suspension control arms.

Buy a 5 speed (the clutches can last a long time)and a quattro.

from what I have found if you are a DIY guy, you can't own a car for less then a Audi. Most Parts are "cheap" in comparison to Acura, MB, and BMW. Audi/VW is the only car Mfg that offers the ability for the consumer to do diagnostics pretty much like the dealer. Vag-Com is a huge benefit in my mind. just 1 trip to the dealer pays for your own Vag
the 2.8 vrs the 4cyl turbo is pretty close in fuel economy, but Audi is not know for the best mileage, I get about 21-22 in my 1.8t A4 and 19-20 in my A6 2.8 (around town).

I bought mine in 2004 with 52K miles on it. I now have ~135K. 2.8 with Quattro and a 5 speed.

It's been a solid car (unlike my S4). Since I purchased it, these are the things I've needed to repair:

Headlight washer pump: $100.
Rear wheel bearings: $300 each. Replaced both once.
Lower exterior door trim: cant recall how much $ at the body shop.
Front brake pad separated from bracket: new brake pad.
Sunroof potentiometer: $50 or so.

The dashboard LCD is down to about 5 lines of pixels, but that can be taken care of for about $200. I also have a creaking noise from the front end somewhere. I suspect a tie rod end or bushing. That's going to be in the $300-$500 range.

Scheduled maintenance:
Timing belt replacement with thermostat, water pump, serpentine belt, pulleys, tensioner: ~$1400

6 quarts of 0W30 Mobil 1, oil filter, air filter, cabin air filter every: ~$100 every 10K miles.

Wear items:
I have had the front and rear brakes replaced twice: About $1000 each time at the dealer. I used to do brakes myself, but have better things to do now. It's not worth my time to save a few hundred on labor when Audi provides a 1 year parts warranty. I've had trouble with the wear sensors indicating that the brakes were worn after only 6 months / 5K miles. I got new pads installed at no cost.

I replace tires every 30K miles or so. I originally got the car with Goodyear RSAs: Junk. Replaced those with Continental Extreme Contacts: Junk. Am on my second set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/Ss now. So, about $600-700 in tires every 30K miles.

Other:
I add 1 quart of oil at 5K miles after a change. I think most is burned, and small bit leaks, but that doesn't bother me. It still runs like it did when I bought it. I also replaced the spark plugs around 80K miles.

The dealer told me I needed a new clutch about 5K miles ago. I think I have at least another 10K miles left in it. Their reasoning was that the clutch friction point was near the end of pedal travel. Well, on this car it's always been toward the upper end compared with my other cars. So there's a matter of just knowing the history of the car.

The interior (other than the LCD) looks like new still, and almost everything functions like new too. The two items that are not quite as the were new are the driver door handle being a bit loose and the driver seat mechanics. The seat rocks a bit under harder braking, and when it's cold, the backrest tends to get stuck if in the most upright position. Yes, for whatever reason, my wife likes to sit damn near vertical. I asked her to not take it to the limit, but we all know how things like that go.

There are very few rattles as well. My S4 Avant on the other hand rattles all over, probably from 3 things: stiffer suspension, lower profile (e.g. stiffer) tires, and the wagon's inherent lower torsional rigidity.

The EPA rating is 18/24. I average about 21-23 with mixed city and rural road driving with a fairly heavy foot. I've been very happy with the car. Good thing that was my 1st Audi. If it was the S4 instead, it would have been the last.

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that a couple winters ago my wife hit a massive pothole that was covered under water. So I can't blame her for it since if I was driving I probably would have ended up with the same result. The rim got bent to the point that it was garbage, with an immediate flat tire. Even with such a strong blow, the suspension was all good, as well as the alignment, and no damage to brake hardware either. Over time now, I think that maybe that's what is causing the creaking now. But it took a licking and kept on ticking. It's really handy to have a spare that's a full size alloy.

[QUOTE=GomerPyle;24013810]I bought mine in 2004 with 52K miles on it. I now have ~135K. 2.8 with Quattro and a 5 speed.

It's been a solid car (unlike my S4). Since I purchased it, these are the things I've needed to repair:

Headlight washer pump: $100.
Rear wheel bearings: $300 each. Replaced both once.
Lower exterior door trim: cant recall how much $ at the body shop.
Front brake pad separated from bracket: new brake pad.
Sunroof potentiometer: $50 or so.

The dashboard LCD is down to about 5 lines of pixels, but that can be taken care of for about $200. I also have a creaking noise from the front end somewhere. I suspect a tie rod end or bushing. That's going to be in the $300-$500 range.

Scheduled maintenance:
Timing belt replacement with thermostat, water pump, serpentine belt, pulleys, tensioner: ~$1400

6 quarts of 0W30 Mobil 1, oil filter, air filter, cabin air filter every: ~$100 every 10K miles.

Wear items:
I have had the front and rear brakes replaced twice: About $1000 each time at the dealer. I used to do brakes myself, but have better things to do now. It's not worth my time to save a few hundred on labor when Audi provides a 1 year parts warranty. I've had trouble with the wear sensors indicating that the brakes were worn after only 6 months / 5K miles. I got new pads installed at no cost.

I replace tires every 30K miles or so. I originally got the car with Goodyear RSAs: Junk. Replaced those with Continental Extreme Contacts: Junk. Am on my second set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/Ss now. So, about $600-700 in tires every 30K miles.

Other:
I add 1 quart of oil at 5K miles after a change. I think most is burned, and small bit leaks, but that doesn't bother me. It still runs like it did when I bought it. I also replaced the spark plugs around 80K miles.

The dealer told me I needed a new clutch about 5K miles ago. I think I have at least another 10K miles left in it. Their reasoning was that the clutch friction point was near the end of pedal travel. Well, on this car it's always been toward the upper end compared with my other cars. So there's a matter of just knowing the history of the car.


There are very few rattles as well. My S4 Avant on the other hand rattles all over, probably from 3 things: stiffer suspension, lower profile (e.g. stiffer) tires, and the wagon's inherent lower torsional rigidity.


The real Gomer here questions why you spend thousands more by using the stealership.One year parts warranty and you get to pay the labor? 300 per bearing are you kidding me? 1400 for a TB job 1000 for a brake job if you have that kind of money you should be styling in a 2010 A4. Those figures you threw out there scare me,Troy M is probably heading for the hills right now or looking for a Honda.

The TB was not done at the dealership on either car. I had it done on my S4 for $950 when the dealer was asking about $1600 and other shops up to $2400. Bearings were cheaper at the dealer than my local mechanic. Every look at the parts cost for pads & rotors? They're not cheap. My time is worth more to me than a few hundred in labor every 30K miles, and I do shop around to get the best pricing on a big job.

I often use my dealership because they get things done and if something is not right they will make it right, even if it involves them eating the cost of a $250 part (they replaced the wrong seat heater element on my S4). Additionally they provide loaners for as long as needed. In a nutshell, convenience and peace of mind. When I was getting the timing belt done on the S4 at a "motor sports" shop, they had the car for 2 weeks without providing me anything else to drive. Good thing my wife was on maternity leave.

Instead of styling a 2010 A4, I just bought a CPO loaded 2007 Q7 4.2. Do you think a 2010 model A4 is cheaper to own than my 2001? Keep dreaming. And that Honda, it's not bullet proof. Just ask any Odyssey owner. How does $4K for a transmission sound?

The A4 is the commuter beater, the S4 pretty much the haul ass commuter / grocery getter, take the 3 year old to school, drop the dogs off at HappyDogz, and the Q7 road trips and hauling the kids and dogs.

Just remember this, if you are looking for a 2001 A4 (or any other older higher end car for that matter) just because you can get one for cheap, it's still a $35K car to maintain.

$1000 for a brake job is a joke. Why anyone would have a brake job done at a dealer is beyond me.


To answer the OP's question, with the exception of the timing belt, Audi's should be no more costly to maintain than a BMW.

The 2.8 is very reliable but offers few upgrade options. There are many for the 1.8.

The 2.8Q is also not bad at all on gas. I average 25-26 mpg.

[QUOTE=GomerPyle;24014729]The TB was not done at the dealership on either car. I had it done on my S4 for $950 when the dealer was asking about $1600 and other shops up to $2400. Bearings were cheaper at the dealer than my local mechanic. Every look at the parts cost for pads & rotors? They're not cheap. My time is worth more to me than a few hundred in labor every 30K miles, and I do shop around to get the best pricing on a big job.
What other shops are telling you 2400? The ones that do not want the job would be my guess.No way is the bearing 300$ unless it is from a dealer. Yes I have priced brake parts from a Indy, nothing close to what you are getting hosed for.
I often use my dealership because they get things done and if something is not right they will make it right, even if it involves them eating the cost of a $250 part (they replaced the wrong seat heater element on my S4). Additionally they provide loaners for as long as needed. In a nutshell, convenience and peace of mind. When I was getting the timing belt done on the S4 at a "motor sports" shop, they had the car for 2 weeks without providing me anything else to drive. Good thing my wife was on maternity leave.
They ate the price of a heating element because they misdiagonsed it. 2 weeks for a TB job, what did you tell them your not in a hurry because you have another car? TB is a 3-5 hour job and any reputable Indy would have all the parts before starting that job.
Instead of styling a 2010 A4, I just bought a CPO loaded 2007 Q7 4.2. Do you think a 2010 model A4 is cheaper to own than my 2001? Keep dreaming. And that Honda, it's not bullet proof. Just ask any Odyssey owner. How does $4K for a transmission sound?
Never said anything was cheaper to own. I said they way you throw money around you can obviously drive a brand new car, with the extended warranty, which would then be cheaper to own.Who said anything about a Odyssey? I was refering to a Accord or civic etc.A CAR of comparable size.
The A4 is the commuter beater, the S4 pretty much the haul ass commuter / grocery getter, take the 3 year old to school, drop the dogs off at HappyDogz, and the Q7 road trips and hauling the kids and dogs.

Just remember this, if you are looking for a 2001 A4 (or any other older higher end car for that matter) just because you can get one for cheap, it's still a $35K car to maintain.[/QUOTE

I have found their are many very very good parts suppliers for Audi and I believe Audi can be one of the cheapest cars to drive. I just did brakes on my 99 A4 front pads (akabono ceramics)I know I miss spelled that and rotors all for under $200, but anyhow high quality parts I found prices for rotors locally ranging from $25-75 each, I went with middle grade for $49 each and the pads were around $60. my friends own 01 Acura and we have been comparing prices for everything from suspension parts, brakes, and T-belts. so far most all parts have been less on the Audi

Specifically, Dunn's Imports in Middleton was $2400 and slightly less was Carstar Dependable Auto in Verona. The timing belt job did not take 2 weeks, they had my car for two weeks because the shop was in the middle of a move, etc., etc. I was not happy about that but you get what you pay for. At least they did quality work. It is an 8-9 hour job. With the TB gets replaced the water pump, pulleys, tensioners, serpentine belt, thermostat, and a few other things, not to mention the bumper and radiator need to be pulled to get to it. 3-5 hours? Who is giving you that estimate? None of the 4 shops I asked could do that, and 2 of them do it on a weekly basis. $900K once every 100K miles is not what I would call a rip off. The cheapest car to own is the on that's been paid off for years. If you want to skimp on parts or pay for your wear items in addition to your new car, go ahead. It's your choice. I have no regrets about my decisions.

The OP asked a question and I answered with exactly what was asked.

Agree with most of what you say actually, the cost of maintenance doesn't decrease as the car gets older and many people who buy German cars don't allow for that. So they don't budget for repairs.

Your price for the timing belt sounds like it was calculated by adding individual jobs together rather than the whole job. This is kind of a scam.

Something our "wonderful medical system" does with some success but that's another subject.

The job is about 5.5 hours for a competent trained mechanic. About $500 in parts and fluids at list prices.

************

I had a friend get a quote for a Lexus RX 300 timing belt replacement, the Lexus dealer was $2400.

The engine in the RX is the same as the Camry and Highlander and the parts are the same.

I have done this job on our RX in 3 hours for less than $300.

Toyota dealer was running a special for $535.

If you don't want to DIY you do have to shop around.

Trust but verify!

[QUOTE=GomerPyle;24014858]Specifically, Dunn's Imports in Middleton was $2400 and slightly less was Carstar Dependable Auto in Verona. The timing belt job did not take 2 weeks, they had my car for two weeks because the shop was in the middle of a move, etc., etc. I was not happy about that but you get what you pay for. At least they did quality work. It is an 8-9 hour job. With the TB gets replaced the water pump, pulleys, tensioners, serpentine belt, thermostat, and a few other things, not to mention the bumper and radiator need to be pulled to get to it. 3-5 hours? Who is giving you that estimate? None of the 4 shops I asked could do that, and 2 of them do it on a weekly basis.

I have a 98 2.8 and with the help, guidance of a Indy on a Saturday did the above TB/waterpump/etc in less than 4 hours.Spent about 200 for parts. The rad did not have to come off.Front end was put in service position.Too bad that the 4 shops you asked saw you coming and wanted to make a big buck off you.Some customers that look like they will be a pain in the ass will get charged accordingly, happens all the time.I see the truth about the 2 week job and wonder why you even mentioned it to begin with,the way you worded it made it sound like that was a normal occurance.

The 2.8 is not what I was referring for with the TB. It was my S4. There is quite a difference.

There is a quite a difference in performance, but the timing belt job is largely the same.

Sorry I am not a mind reader and the diff in the TB job is minimal. No one asked about a S4, so why is it even mentioned by you to begin with? Stick with the A4 as that is what the OP asked about,not your personal life or S4.There is a S4 forum if you need to bump your gums about that model.Unless you live in the desert the air and cabin filters can go a lot longer than 10,000 miles,although some may be anal about that as well.Also by changing your oil on a 2.8 every 3,500 miles any name brand 3$ per quart oil will do.

If you would actually bother to read the posts, instead of trying to constantly insult me, you'd see that I was merely comparing that shopping around can and does save you money. $1400 on the A4, and $900 on the more complicated (due to more plumbing) S4 at a different shop. And as stated before, neither done at the dealership.

Where I live, by 10K miles the cabin air filter is completely black by 10K miles.

You can keep your $3/quart oil. When I was a design engineer for a mining truck company, they did the tests on standard vs synthetic oil. When the temp drops to 20 degrees or less, the conventional oil gets thicker and thicker, whereas the the synthetic keeps flowing just the same. It gets much colder than that on a regular basis here. I'll stick with my $7/quart Mobil 1 0W30.

And let's do the math. $3/3500 miles or $7/10,000. You're overpaying for oil and filters.

Okay I will get off your back after I say this. You are right about shopping around for better prices but you also said that the dealership was your choice,which is far more expensive with or without warranted parts,which would not include labor at 100 per hr.As far as the oil goes I would then say that every car you drive should be using the synthetic, so no matter what the OP buys that would be a constant expense and not be factor as to buy or not to buy a A4.
Gomer says hey

Stay with the E30
 

I've owned 3 series BMW coupes for 23 years. The E30 is the next 2002, so maybe you want to keep it. I lived in NJ and needed AWD before BMW made them and owned a few A4s.

If you wrench you can save some money, but my opinion is that you need $1800 a year to keep them rolling properly (not delaying maintenance). This is confirmed by two Audi specialists in NJ who I have used regularly. I was going to buy my son an A4, but after much thought he is in a 97 BMW 325ci with 167,000 miles.

I didn't read all the responses, but after hearing all these A4s with 260,000 miles and few repairs, I decided to post my truth and what I believe is closer to normal. Call an Audi specialist and ask them what their average customer spends....that's what I did.

CT

I used to run an '88 E30 and then switched over to a '98 A4B5 a few years back. Just could pass up getting AWD and 10 year old car (don't you just love depreciation) with just 20K miles for the winters up here.
Cost wise running a BMW runs the same as running an Audi (year for year), but they are totally different animals.
I miss the lighter weight and balance of the E30 and BMW's ingeneral. The A4 in comparison is a nose heavy design and you can feel it. However its Quattro system can't be beat.
If you need AWD then Audi would be my choice, otherwise sticking with BMW's wouldn't be a bad choice.

98 2.8 quattro bought at 60K miles, now has 110K

I don't think mine has been very costly. Sure, I'd probably spend less on a honda or a toyota, but I love my car. I love the way it drives. Sure, there are better handling cars out there for the money, but the quattro is fabulous in the winter. My ABS has been out for about 3 years, so no traction control or abs. It doesn't bother me. Still drives fantastic in the snow.

I probably spend about $1000 a year on maintenence and repairs. Had the thermostat replaced a couple years ago. ( it's behind the timing belt) cost about $1200 to replace with the belts, water pump and pulleys. Not too bad. Thing I eat up are tie rod ends and mass air flow sensors. These are common parts to go out. Be sure to have aftermarket heavy duty tie rod ends put on if you have problems, will save you cash in the future. Mass air flow sensor is a common thing to go bad on vw's and audis. on my second one of those in 5 years.

Mine has remained stock except for a few cosmetics. I am happy with it the way it is really.

Gas milage, get about 20mpg, but that's a hell of a lot of fun for the money. :) Have gotten as high as 28MPG on long highway trips.

Love the trunk space, although, it's about identical to a 2000 jetta(had a measuring contest against my brother). I love the look of black cars, but damn I hate taking care of black paint. The clutch can be a bit heavy at times. if you're in a lot of traffic jams, probably want the automatic. If you haven't had an AWD car before, it's a little different to drive in the snow and wet. (sometimes a ton more fun). In some sticky spots, it's better to give it more gas than less. Like you start understeering around a corner. Brakes are your enemy there, you'll keep sliding. Better to kick the back out with some gas. Might wanna practice that in a parking lot a bit, but once you get it, OMG, you look like a rally driver in snow. The back helps it turn and the front will get its traction back.

Sure you can... Honda, Toyota, & Nissan are all significantly cheaper to maintain... My Nissan was stupid cheap for repairs (until getting totaled last year).... (we have 4-5 cars at any given time - currently a B5, B6, Touareg, Corolla and a LS400)

The B5 definitely takes more and expensive work than the B6 (I have both)... my B6 just had its first real repair since new though ($700) in 9 years and 100k miles, so pretty happy. The B5 goes through wheel bearings, and front suspension components more than other cars I've had. ours just hit 180k, and needed a cat, both front axles, a turbo, hood latch, trunk struts, all 4 brake calipers, still needs suspension arms, one wheel bearing and bunch of other stuff.. would have cost a fortune if I had to pay somebody else (still wasn't cheap). If you pay a shop, I wouldn't buy any old used German car!

B6's are getting cheap enough that I don't think I'd get a B5 again unless dirt cheap - The B6 doesn't seem to have the suspension and bearing issues. I'd only get 1.8t also. V6 is more costly and sucky from a fun perspective.