Sunroof by SATAN (edit)
05-31-2004, 11:07 AM
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Sunroof by SATAN (edit)
to sum up the activities of yesterday.... it was like having sex with a meat grinder.
I thought I might be able to figure out wtf was making my sunroof chatter incessantly over any sort of bumps.
lets see what we've learned so far here kids..... sex with a meat grinder is BAD umkay, its not rewarding and its something you regret after giving it a go. Oh and I'm pretty sure its going to cost me $$$ to fix that which got fuxored in the process.
1. there are 2 different sunroof designs
a. rockwell/golde
b. webasto (8d-v-073 535+) vin no.'s
2. the chattering is caused by the "skis" or metal guide rails that 2 guide pins attached to the glass assy ride/slide on. These black plastic marvels of engineering are made of garbage plastic that is brittle & will inevitably FAIL.
3. the webasto design appears to be much easier to service... however it is only detailed in my etka 6 for europe... not in my US spec ver5. So I cant give too much info on that unit right now.
4. what makes the Rockwell golde unit fail.... all and I do mean ALL of the vital operative and moving parts are plastic... cost cutting at its WORST... save $10ea on a few million units and use plastic parts.... (but when they fail the diagnosis is a $600 sunroof assy & 8hrs of dealer labor...- = $780 in labor for a total of $1380 (on every car equippped with this PIECE OF SHYT)to fix what could have been solved in the engineering stage for a buck or two per car.
when these happy little BLACK pieces of plastic sit and bake in the UV rays of the sun for SAY 6 years... they tend to crack, decay and breakup... adding in vibration & temperature changes from hvac and summer/winter... these parts are PROMISED to fail... its like pouring robotussin in a goldfish tank!... they're all gonna die!
So lemme show you peoples what is going to break... and give you an idea of how to fix it... on the Rockwell Golde unit.
Precautions.
We're dealing with glass here... use your brain.
if you turn the sunroof **** to the "retract" position while the sunroof glass has been removed... your day is now shot... and you had better have 2 certified VW technicians for friends.... because if I didnt I would have been boiled in 5w40 motor oil by my father for having to use one of his cars to get to work till I can afford to order the parts & get it sorted out.
procedure to service the skis
step 1. set sunroof in vent position.
step 2. examine what remains of your plastic tracks...
step 3. if tracks are incomplete or are missing completely.... continue to step 4.
step 4. find a T25 bit and a ratchet.
step 5. remove the 6 (3/side) T25 screws that hold the glass assy to the track system.
step 6. lift sunroof glass up and out of tracks
step 7 put in in the trunk of your car so you dont step on it/ knock it over $$$$$ otherwise.
step 8. use dental tools or picks to remove little pieces of black plastic carnage from the tracks... to prevent eventual jamming.
step 9. use pics to release C clips from retaining pins on skis.
step 10. install new skis and re-install c clips.
step 11. repeat steps 8-10 on other side of car.
step 12. once both new skis are installed reinstall glass (safety glass warnings/info to rear of car)
while you dont need per say to service the blind guides.... its HIGHLY advisable that you do so while you are in there.
1. remove the 4 philips head screws with the apropriate size screwdriver...
2. with the blind in the FULL FOWRAD position manipualte & slide the passenger side guides towards the rear of the car. Once past the blind they can be removed (cheap plastics warning) carefully with minimal force.
3. now lift the blind up on the passenger side and slide it out of the sunroof opening towards you. The driver side guides (no longer screwed into the blind will simply remain in place....
4. remove driver side guides (cheap plastics warning)
5. Replace driver side clips first....
6. manipulate blind into sunroof opening.
7. slide driver side clips into operating positions (do not screw down yet)
8. replace passenger side guides with new ones.
9. slide passenger side guides into place.
10. affix guides to blind with philips head screws.
If you were like me.... and turned the **** after removing the glass....
now you've gotta drop your head liner!!!!
To remove your head liner... you must remove the A pillar covers, the B pillar covers, the C/D pillar covers, the sun visors, the Oh/shyt handles, the rear parcel shelf cover, the side seat cushions, fold rear seat down.... Remove front & rear overhead reading lights, sun visor clips, and anything else that is attached to the roof of the car.
What did I break in this process.
driver side C/D pillar cover
passenger side lower B pillar cover (tooth that holds it to upper cover)
passenger side upper B pilar cover (imperfect now)
Sunroof opening frame for roof liner. MANGLED... didnt know that it came off of the roof liner when attempting to re-install roof liner.
Part numbers for stuff you should replace while doing this service.
#5 in illus 8-77-00 in etka
guide pieces... iirc they come as a set of 4.
4B0-877-165 (updated supersession number)
#13 in illus 8-77-00 in etka v6
guide 8d0-898-153 (I think this is a kit of 2 pieces. As the qty per model specified for this kit is 1....)
#17 in illus 8-77-00 in etka
small parts kit 8d0-898-058
order 2 kits... one for left, one for right.
#18 in illus 8-77-00 in etka
small parts kit 8d0-898-058-a
order 2 kits... one for left, one for right.
All of these 898 numbers are repair kit part numbers, if you visit 8-98 in etka it will take you to body repair kits... there are plenty of listings for sunroof parts. 98 is repair kit subgroup FYI.
Please DONT email me for pictures..... those will follow when I get a chance. Right now I'm LIVID.
I thought I might be able to figure out wtf was making my sunroof chatter incessantly over any sort of bumps.
lets see what we've learned so far here kids..... sex with a meat grinder is BAD umkay, its not rewarding and its something you regret after giving it a go. Oh and I'm pretty sure its going to cost me $$$ to fix that which got fuxored in the process.
1. there are 2 different sunroof designs
a. rockwell/golde
b. webasto (8d-v-073 535+) vin no.'s
2. the chattering is caused by the "skis" or metal guide rails that 2 guide pins attached to the glass assy ride/slide on. These black plastic marvels of engineering are made of garbage plastic that is brittle & will inevitably FAIL.
3. the webasto design appears to be much easier to service... however it is only detailed in my etka 6 for europe... not in my US spec ver5. So I cant give too much info on that unit right now.
4. what makes the Rockwell golde unit fail.... all and I do mean ALL of the vital operative and moving parts are plastic... cost cutting at its WORST... save $10ea on a few million units and use plastic parts.... (but when they fail the diagnosis is a $600 sunroof assy & 8hrs of dealer labor...- = $780 in labor for a total of $1380 (on every car equippped with this PIECE OF SHYT)to fix what could have been solved in the engineering stage for a buck or two per car.
when these happy little BLACK pieces of plastic sit and bake in the UV rays of the sun for SAY 6 years... they tend to crack, decay and breakup... adding in vibration & temperature changes from hvac and summer/winter... these parts are PROMISED to fail... its like pouring robotussin in a goldfish tank!... they're all gonna die!
So lemme show you peoples what is going to break... and give you an idea of how to fix it... on the Rockwell Golde unit.
Precautions.
We're dealing with glass here... use your brain.
if you turn the sunroof **** to the "retract" position while the sunroof glass has been removed... your day is now shot... and you had better have 2 certified VW technicians for friends.... because if I didnt I would have been boiled in 5w40 motor oil by my father for having to use one of his cars to get to work till I can afford to order the parts & get it sorted out.
procedure to service the skis
step 1. set sunroof in vent position.
step 2. examine what remains of your plastic tracks...
step 3. if tracks are incomplete or are missing completely.... continue to step 4.
step 4. find a T25 bit and a ratchet.
step 5. remove the 6 (3/side) T25 screws that hold the glass assy to the track system.
step 6. lift sunroof glass up and out of tracks
step 7 put in in the trunk of your car so you dont step on it/ knock it over $$$$$ otherwise.
step 8. use dental tools or picks to remove little pieces of black plastic carnage from the tracks... to prevent eventual jamming.
step 9. use pics to release C clips from retaining pins on skis.
step 10. install new skis and re-install c clips.
step 11. repeat steps 8-10 on other side of car.
step 12. once both new skis are installed reinstall glass (safety glass warnings/info to rear of car)
while you dont need per say to service the blind guides.... its HIGHLY advisable that you do so while you are in there.
1. remove the 4 philips head screws with the apropriate size screwdriver...
2. with the blind in the FULL FOWRAD position manipualte & slide the passenger side guides towards the rear of the car. Once past the blind they can be removed (cheap plastics warning) carefully with minimal force.
3. now lift the blind up on the passenger side and slide it out of the sunroof opening towards you. The driver side guides (no longer screwed into the blind will simply remain in place....
4. remove driver side guides (cheap plastics warning)
5. Replace driver side clips first....
6. manipulate blind into sunroof opening.
7. slide driver side clips into operating positions (do not screw down yet)
8. replace passenger side guides with new ones.
9. slide passenger side guides into place.
10. affix guides to blind with philips head screws.
If you were like me.... and turned the **** after removing the glass....
now you've gotta drop your head liner!!!!
To remove your head liner... you must remove the A pillar covers, the B pillar covers, the C/D pillar covers, the sun visors, the Oh/shyt handles, the rear parcel shelf cover, the side seat cushions, fold rear seat down.... Remove front & rear overhead reading lights, sun visor clips, and anything else that is attached to the roof of the car.
What did I break in this process.
driver side C/D pillar cover
passenger side lower B pillar cover (tooth that holds it to upper cover)
passenger side upper B pilar cover (imperfect now)
Sunroof opening frame for roof liner. MANGLED... didnt know that it came off of the roof liner when attempting to re-install roof liner.
Part numbers for stuff you should replace while doing this service.
#5 in illus 8-77-00 in etka
guide pieces... iirc they come as a set of 4.
4B0-877-165 (updated supersession number)
#13 in illus 8-77-00 in etka v6
guide 8d0-898-153 (I think this is a kit of 2 pieces. As the qty per model specified for this kit is 1....)
#17 in illus 8-77-00 in etka
small parts kit 8d0-898-058
order 2 kits... one for left, one for right.
#18 in illus 8-77-00 in etka
small parts kit 8d0-898-058-a
order 2 kits... one for left, one for right.
All of these 898 numbers are repair kit part numbers, if you visit 8-98 in etka it will take you to body repair kits... there are plenty of listings for sunroof parts. 98 is repair kit subgroup FYI.
Please DONT email me for pictures..... those will follow when I get a chance. Right now I'm LIVID.
05-31-2004, 12:12 PM
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np.... Mine is still in pieces in the garage...... what sort of malfunctioning is yours doing
tomorrow I will order the applicable repair kits for mine... I'll overnight them as my car is a MESS right now. Luckily all of the parts I need are in the local warehouse... I should have em for a weds night of sunroof repair playtime.
If yours isnt retracting correctly then you might also need
8d0-898-015 (guide with cable for vehicles with glass sliding roof )
this includes the guides with cables for both left & right sides, some pins and a couple of lock washers.
8d0-898-015-a (repair kit cable guide)
contians a guide piece, some bolts and some lock nuts.
If yours isnt retracting correctly then you might also need
8d0-898-015 (guide with cable for vehicles with glass sliding roof )
this includes the guides with cables for both left & right sides, some pins and a couple of lock washers.
8d0-898-015-a (repair kit cable guide)
contians a guide piece, some bolts and some lock nuts.
05-31-2004, 01:28 PM
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Huh! Zero problems for me & my roof here in AZ on a '98.5...
But then, I don't get to open it 5 months out of the year because its too hot outside.
Sorry to hear about this 'ordeal' w/ your roof! I will remember not to try and fix this myself.
Sorry to hear about this 'ordeal' w/ your roof! I will remember not to try and fix this myself.
05-31-2004, 01:35 PM
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86 Jetta Carrat, crank sunroof=17 years old, no leaks, no malfunctions..ever.
Man, I know what you mean by cheaping out on the parts. I have two of these power plastic sunroofs in my garage. Can't wait for the fun to begin.
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06-01-2004, 08:20 AM
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Thanks, keep us posted !!!
my 98.5 2.8 just started click...click...click... when sliding back. and now when in vent position it sqeaks, like yours. I'm never going to open the thing ever again!!!