Toronto S5

Hi everyone, I posted this originally in the A5/S5 forum, which in hindsight made no sense. If anyone has any views on the below here, it would really be helpful. My GF is looking for a new car, certainly a sedan, and the A4 is in the mix. Given this is an A4 board, I'd appreciate if you could help me answer two questions:

1) Any views on the non-A4 cars below? Please opine in anyway you'd like (rank them, comment on them, whatever).
2) Why woul she go with any of the cars below over an A4 (or is the A4 really a no brainer)?

Pretty much looking for as objective advice as possible on an A4 forum Please note this is for a female driver that is not serious about cars but is looking for safety, comfort/looks and sure, some performance.

Audi A4
BMW 328i
Infiniti G25
Infiniti G37
Lexus IS 250
Lexus IS 350
Lexus ES 350
MB C250
MB C300

Thanks very much guys!

Barrels41

My wife has had several A4's and loves them. She will love the A4 Prestige S-line I am picking up tomorrow by my self.

Some women give priority to looks and comfort so the they drive Lexus. Infinity uses too much gas. BMW may have great deals on 2011s.

Your list is all entry luxury cars and great choices.

Lot's of good choices for less money with Madza 3 for 2013, Hyundai, 2013 Fords. More bright paint colors offered for the ladies.

gunsmoker

I own a 2011 A4 and a 2007 IS250AWD. I can tell you why you should take the IS out off this list.
Ours is the second MY for the IS. We did the following things:
- Floor mats/gas pedal recall.
- Fuel hose recall.
- Dashboard rattle fixed.
- Air bag light came on intermittently.
- Changed the wheels in the forth year because the finish started to peel off.
- The read brakes stopped working - the calipers got stuck. The dealer tried to get me to change one of them twice. I cleaned it and lubricated it and it's good now.
- The front rotors/pads were good for about 55k miles. Changed that and the rear pads, but kept the rear rotors.
- Just did a camshaft gears TSIB - there was an intermittent rattle at cold starts. Had to play them a video from youtube to get them to do it.

Apart from the above, there are a few other bad things:
- The paint is soft (unlike A4's) and it scratches easily.
- The weight is distributed unevenly on the front axle and as a result of this, the car is sitting lower on the driver side by ~8mm, i.e. the suspension has sagged.
- The seats are much shorter and narrower than the sport seats in the A4.
- There is barely any space between the seat back and the B pillar to grab the belt - you have to fish it out with two fingers.
- The pedals are not aligned correctly with the seat - the break pedal is too much to the left. I saw the same thing in the ES350.
- The seats don't have vinyl inserts at the spots most prone to wear and it shows.
- The fit and finish on the dashboard is not good - you can see uneven gaps between the panels.
- The stability system is a joke compared to the A4's - compared in the same conditions and tire brand (IS width - 225, A4 - 245).
- The auto transmission is very slow.
- Don't like the gaps in the wheel wells - the car sits too high compared to my A$ with the sport package. I believe they offer lower springs for the IS now.
- The smart key can drive you crazy and it needs new batteries every 2-3 years.
- If you look underneath - exhaust, breaks, etc. everything is cheap and rusty. It's horrible if you want to do the brakes yourself. Bolts cross-thread, etc.
- The original brake pads made an amazing amount of dust. They have probably switched to ceramics already.

The IS350 has most of these issues.

On the bright side, the IS has a nice appearance except for the protruding mufflers. The chassis is very stiff and the steering feel is very good - it has great handling, maybe a tad better than the A4 with the sport suspension. However, overall it's no match for the German engineering, quality, fuel consumption, power, and space.

We had an ES350 loaner recently. It looked good inside, not as good as the A4, but good. Very spacious. It drove like a boat though. It's much slower than my tuned A4 and was not AWG. The exterior looked ugly to me from every angle.

Toronto S5

Wow thanks for the feedback on the IS. A bit surprised considering Lexus is supposed to be known for quality/reliability... also wouldn't some of these issues been fixed by now?

gunsmoker

They have fixed some, but I suppose they haven't changed the seat size and position, the sagging suspension, the soft clear coat, the rusty brakes, etc.

My experience has been that Lexus is worse than what people think it is and Audi is better than what people things it is.

SFV A4

I have a 2008 IS250 and will paint a much brigher picture. In fact, I'd recommend that to your girl over the A4. Why? Because for those not interested in performance or handling, it's a reliable car with good looks. I have not had anything go wrong with mine other than normal wear and tear stuff. The recalls were no big deal (and blown out of proportion, read- incorrect floormat usage), and the excessive brakedust was fixed when the car was new via free new pads from the dealer. If one follows Consumer Reports, the IS is consistantly ranked ontop for reliability. Mind you, no car is perfect and things do come up. I came from a 2003 A4 which I loved, but the B8 was not out at the time I needed a new car.

Also worth pointing out the IS leases for dirt cheap. The A4 is roughly $100/month more.

Another thing to contemplate- a new IS is due in 2013, while the A4 has a few more years to go.

I'd sum it up by saying you cannot go wrong with either. But for those not into driving dynamics, and who want value, isolation, and luxury, the IS is hard to beat. For those who want to feel the road and have some fun on their drive, the German cars are the ticket.

gat821

I know a Honda engineer and they do evaluations of the major car companies. Not sure if they did actual teardowns, but he mentioned he was surprised at the relatively lower build quality/fit and finish of Lexus. The best build quality? Audi.

Huey52

Interesting. My wife has a 2007 is250 AWD and has not had any of these issues and she's very picky. In fact, other than a couple safety recalls (one pre-emptive related to the Toyota gas pedal thing) she's had no issues at all. Regular service and always a satisfied customer of same (she stays onsite for the 'free' lunch). She's had a number of Lexus models almost from the beginning of the line and has enjoyed them all, especially the interior comfort quality (high grade leather in particular).

gunsmoker

What did you find cheap looking? I have light grey interior with wood inlays and it doesn't look cheap at all. The parts of the central console don't fit perfectly though.
The leather is softer than the A4's and the floor mats are thicker and more durable. Unfortunately the seats are too small. I'm 180lb, 5'11" so the issue is not my butt. My wife thinks the same.
The IS is noticeably smaller/tighter than the A4.

B8kmon

For me it was the center console fit and finish, buttons etc (I was looking at non-navi cars), the feeling of the steering wheel, and the quality of the clear plastic that was covering the speedo - seemed hazy to me. I also later sat in my friend's 2 year old IS and his black leather was showing a lot of wear, perhaps as a result of softer leather.

Don't get me wrong - an excellent car, but when you're shopping in this price range I feel it's ok to nitpick a bit.